Time for a Lafreniere Reset

[Ozzy]

17 minutes ago, josh said:

Luckily, he plays on the best team in the league and can go cold during a 7-game win streak and it isn't an issue.

That can also be said for a certain #93.  I'm waiting for him to combust this season as well.

The scary part id that Zibby and Yukon have been pretty silent of late....WAIT!  The best is yet to come!  LOL

[Phil]

I mean, at this point, you just have to hope that more reps, more time, more experience all continue to sharpen his game, and that he finds a scoring touch along the way. He looks really rough, and as has been said by others, there's no there there. He does nothing well and shows no flash or promise outside of what he was able to do in Junior.

Kakko suffered similar effects across his first two seasons. We just have to hope he's late(r) bloomer like Kakko seems to have been.

[siddious]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

I mean, at this point, you just have to hope that more reps, more time, more experience all continue to sharpen his game, and that he finds a scoring touch along the way. He looks really rough, and as has been said by others, there's no there there. He does nothing well and shows no flash or promise outside of what he was able to do in Junior.

Kakko suffered similar effects across his first two seasons. We just have to hope he's late(r) bloomer like Kakko seems to have been.

I dont even want him scoring a lot (I mean I do but..) I would settle for some sort of engagement where he actually looks like a 1OA pick. It's like hes learning to play hockey on top of learning the NHL game. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

I don't think it's a lack of effort on his part.  I think he's trying his hardest which is the real scary part.  There was one play in the 3rd where he entered the zone along the boards with only one defender in front of him and he just did a soft dump in.  I was thinking "how many 1OA's wouldn't try to beat that guy?"  I'm not sure a healthy scratch would be effective since the effort is there.  Maybe we just need to hope he turns into a Ryan Callahan type at this point...

Well it's all about the message, right. It's not "We need to see more effort", it's "watch the game and see where you can assert yourself." The game seems slower from up top, so maybe it'll show him where there's time and space he wasn't noticing before.

It's not uncommon.

[LindG1000]

46 minutes ago, Phil said:

I mean, at this point, you just have to hope that more reps, more time, more experience all continue to sharpen his game, and that he finds a scoring touch along the way. He looks really rough, and as has been said by others, there's no there there. He does nothing well and shows no flash or promise outside of what he was able to do in Junior.

Kakko suffered similar effects across his first two seasons. We just have to hope he's late(r) bloomer like Kakko seems to have been.

It's also just not unusual for a top 5 pick of any kind to take a little time. 

He'd do well to get a few games watching. 

[Scott]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

I think the problem is that hes too slow and not good enough of a skater to do that. I was really hoping he would have worked on his skating and conditioning more during the off season and by his account he did... I am not seeing it.

Luckily he is 20 so hopefully he works on that.

I tend to think he probably did work on those things and we're seeing the results. Which is worst case scenario.  Remember a few games back when he showed a pulse for a second and hit that one guy, that was cool. Becoming the next Callahan is setting the bar really low for a 1OA but I don't think it's even remotely possible Lafatty doesn't have the motor or even half of it. Go kids line.

puck===========>ocean  would be a start

truly amazing where we are with so many guess struggling to put up numbers 

Tip of the cap to Gallant and Igor's pre-exploded groin

 

[Kevin]

33 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

I tend to think he probably did work on those things and we're seeing the results. Which is worst case scenario.  Remember a few games back when he showed a pulse for a second and hit that one guy, that was cool. Becoming the next Callahan is setting the bar really low for a 1OA but I don't think it's even remotely possible Lafatty doesn't have the motor or even half of it. Go kids line.

puck===========>ocean  would be a start

truly amazing where we are with so many guess struggling to put up numbers 

Tip of the cap to Gallant and Igor's pre-exploded groin

 

Honestly, I think we'd be lucky if we got Callahan's offensive output from Laf at this point.  Callahan, through his first 80 games in the NHL, when he was almost exclusively used on the 3rd or 4th line, had 16 goals and 8 assists.  Laf, through the same 80 games, has 17 goals and 10 assists.  

[Scott]

9 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Honestly, I think we'd be lucky if we got Callahan's offensive output from Laf at this point.  Callahan, through his first 80 games in the NHL, when he was almost exclusively used on the 3rd or 4th line, had 16 goals and 8 assists.  Laf, through the same 80 games, has 17 goals and 10 assists.  

agree Kevin. Cally was noticeable every time he stepped on the ice because he went hard until the second he stepped off. Even when/if he didn't put up offensive numbers he impacted the game and his teammates. I don't see Laf ever having that energy in his game. All jokes aside from me it amazes me how truly invisible he is most nights. 6 shots or something like that in the last 6 games? It's terrible.

[Pete]

I don't want Lafreniere to be like Callahan, at all. He'll be out of the league at 32.

That's not the way highly talented players approach the game, using their body as a missile when you don't have the frame to support it.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Pete

[Scott]

I don't think the guy has "it" to be either, the elite offensive better than everyone else on the ice or a Cally. I said in my first response it would be setting the bar low for him based on what he was sold as and I completely agree a missle he is not, nor should he be.  But it would be great it he made himself noticeable everytime he was on the ice and not almost exclusively because he's going off for a change.

I guess we can sit back and just wait on the all the talent to appear more than once every blue moon and turn the page on almost every other night when he does nothing but make you shake your head wondering if he even dressed. 

I think what amazes me most about this season so far is the success with some key guys expected to step up really having done little to nothing. 

[The Dude]

Lafreniere has been underwhelming.  But, IMO, THIS one isn't on the Rangers, unless Quinn really screwed him up. 

He was the concensus 1OA. No question about it.  People were talking this kid up like we just got a Stamkos or Spezza type talent. Very highly touted. 

So. WTF with this guy? Nothing about his game says elite anything.  Not really even a glimpse.  He's been given every opportunity to do something.  Anything, on all the lines. 

Is he too comfortable?Or just the opposite? He doesn't look right out there. Passive, slow, kinda weak, no shot, no desire to shoot, not a play maker, not a great decision maker. What is his game? What's it supposed to be?  

Josh always mentions that he likes setting up guys on the doorstep for off wing tap ins. A spot Chytil used to wind up often.  But it seems like Gauthier is the driver of that line as he carries the puck in (or atleast effectively carries it in) more than the others. 

Can Kakko flip to LW on the kid line? Putting Lafreniere back on the Zibanejad line (moving Kreider to rw again) for another go around? 

 

I feel as if when he had the spot on Zibanejads line, NOTHING  was going right for the entire team despite the winning record.  NOW I feel like the roster is hitting its stride and playing more like a complete unit. But they are getting very little out if Zibanejad AND Lafreniere.  It's not going to hurt much to tinker with that line. Unless breaking up the kid line is an issue.  Which I get. I think they have been pretty decent, despite no output from Lafreniere. 

It's certainly a dilemma. 

 

[Valriera]

He’s been bad but you know I see all the posts about him not being in physical shape, and they’re funny, but I think there’s a lot more there than people realize. Kakko really didn’t start contributing at all until he figured out his skating. I think Laf has the same issue and that’s on him this off season to come in game shape to camp. If he’s serious about playing he will do it. If he’s not serious then he’s probably staying a dud because he’s not fast enough or big enough to make space that way, he’s gotta get faster and more in shape physically. The fact that he’s not is disappointing.
 

but I like the other things he’s shown so far. He’s a good teammate, good energy, coachable, isn’t afraid to hit, good hands, good shot even though he rarely gets to use it, and has very good vision. Still learning to use those tools as you’d expect. 
 

but my overall synopsis is he’s gotta get in better shape. He looks slow and tired, and when you’re slow and tired you can’t play offense. That falls on one person and hopefully he figures it out

[Keirik]

18 minutes ago, Valriera said:

He’s been bad but you know I see all the posts about him not being in physical shape, and they’re funny, but I think there’s a lot more there than people realize. Kakko really didn’t start contributing at all until he figured out his skating. I think Laf has the same issue and that’s on him this off season to come in game shape to camp. If he’s serious about playing he will do it. If he’s not serious then he’s probably staying a dud because he’s not fast enough or big enough to make space that way, he’s gotta get faster and more in shape physically. The fact that he’s not is disappointing.
 

but I like the other things he’s shown so far. He’s a good teammate, good energy, coachable, isn’t afraid to hit, good hands, good shot even though he rarely gets to use it, and has very good vision. Still learning to use those tools as you’d expect. 
 

but my overall synopsis is he’s gotta get in better shape. He looks slow and tired, and when you’re slow and tired you can’t play offense. That falls on one person and hopefully he figures it out

Sort of yes sort of no. Kakkos rookie year at least he contributed on the pp.  Even there I see very little really out of Alf. That’s concerning in a high skill part of the game.

[Pete]

I'm not seeing this "off he charts" hockey IQ.

Smart players are able to find time and space even if they aren't the fastest players. My god look at David Krejci. Even Brayden Point isn't the biggest or fastest guy.

There's guys who can play this game at the NHL level, and guys who can't. Right now Laffy can't. He doesn't go where you need to go to score, he doesn't want the puck, he doesn't create plays with the pass no one else is seeing. He just skates around doing largely nothing at all.

[LindG1000]

12 hours ago, Valriera said:

He’s been bad but you know I see all the posts about him not being in physical shape, and they’re funny, but I think there’s a lot more there than people realize. Kakko really didn’t start contributing at all until he figured out his skating. I think Laf has the same issue and that’s on him this off season to come in game shape to camp. If he’s serious about playing he will do it. If he’s not serious then he’s probably staying a dud because he’s not fast enough or big enough to make space that way, he’s gotta get faster and more in shape physically. The fact that he’s not is disappointing.
 

but I like the other things he’s shown so far. He’s a good teammate, good energy, coachable, isn’t afraid to hit, good hands, good shot even though he rarely gets to use it, and has very good vision. Still learning to use those tools as you’d expect. 
 

but my overall synopsis is he’s gotta get in better shape. He looks slow and tired, and when you’re slow and tired you can’t play offense. That falls on one person and hopefully he figures it out

He needs to go live with Chris Kreider. 

[josh]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm not seeing this "off he charts" hockey IQ.

Smart players are able to find time and space even if they aren't the fastest players. My god look at David Krejci. Even Brayden Point isn't the biggest or fastest guy.

There's guys who can play this game at the NHL level, and guys who can't. Right now Laffy can't. He doesn't go where you need to go to score, he doesn't want the puck, he doesn't create plays with the pass no one else is seeing. He just skates around doing largely nothing at all.

It's there. Unfortunately, with Black hole Chytil and 1-move Gauthier we aren't able to see it pay off.

Tonight, watch him when he has the puck in the offensive zone. Pay attention to teammates. If there is one ready to shoot, he hits them 9 out of 10 times. Most of the time, though, he'll get the puck, Chytil will be standing with him behind goal line, and the 3rd winger is on the boards. He doesnt have a shooter in position - which is his bread and butter. Now, without the pass option, there's no deception - which was his goal move. Goalies thinking he's passing and he sneaks it in. Now, with no options, he keeps trying to carry the puck. He's got the bad habit of skating behind the net or towards the point when he needs to start carrying it to the net more.

Very similar to how we observed Kakko developing his NHL game last season, Lafreniere is doing the same. It will start to show soon enough.

[Kevin]

On 12/8/2021 at 1:48 PM, Pete said:

I don't want Lafreniere to be like Callahan, at all. He'll be out of the league at 32.

That's not the way highly talented players approach the game, using their body as a missile when you don't have the frame to support it.

I don't want him to be him either but doesn't it seem like he's just trying to work the puck down low and deliver some hits more than trying to make skilled plays?  I don't want him thinking that's what's expected from him.

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, josh said:

It's there. Unfortunately, with Black hole Chytil and 1-move Gauthier we aren't able to see it pay off.

Tonight, watch him when he has the puck in the offensive zone. Pay attention to teammates. If there is one ready to shoot, he hits them 9 out of 10 times. Most of the time, though, he'll get the puck, Chytil will be standing with him behind goal line, and the 3rd winger is on the boards. He doesnt have a shooter in position - which is his bread and butter. Now, without the pass option, there's no deception - which was his goal move. Goalies thinking he's passing and he sneaks it in. Now, with no options, he keeps trying to carry the puck. He's got the bad habit of skating behind the net or towards the point when he needs to start carrying it to the net more.

Very similar to how we observed Kakko developing his NHL game last season, Lafreniere is doing the same. It will start to show soon enough.

I might miss the game but will look for this. To me, he mostly looks bewildered, like he doesn't have a plan B when plan A isn't available, so he just gets rid of the puck. With all these guys saying how free as a bird they are under Gallant, you'd think Lafreniere would take some more risks, especially against the match ups they're getting (66% OzS)

[Vodka Drunkenski]

He’s looked lost on other lines as well

[josh]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I might miss the game but will look for this. To me, he mostly looks bewildered, like he doesn't have a plan B when plan A isn't available, so he just gets rid of the puck. With all these guys saying how free as a bird they are under Gallant, you'd think Lafreniere would take some more risks, especially against the match ups they're getting (66% OzS)

I think its a result of always having a guy there to set up for a shot growing up, now he doesnt. In junior, he'd have 2 guys on him, find the open guy. That's not an option, now.

When he doesn't have that pass, he goes behind the net or to the point. Now all three of them are out of scoring position. So, although the line has had some good games, they seem to be working away from the net, once they are 'established' in the zone. Most of their goals have come from odd-man rushes, iirc

[Keirik]

Just send him down already. Literally for 3 weeks. Give a guy down there performing a chance to wow the coach and give him a chance to gain confidence. 

 

 What's the worst that can happen? He sucks down there? Can't be afraid to find this kind of stuff out. 

[josh]

47 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Just send him down already. Literally for 3 weeks. Give a guy down there performing a chance to wow the coach and give him a chance to gain confidence. 

 

 What's the worst that can happen? He sucks down there? Can't be afraid to find this kind of stuff out. 

He'll be targeted, lose confidence, and regress. 

At best he plays with Johnny brodzinski and Tim gettinger? 

He's not going to get anything out of ahl time. He's simply not.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, josh said:

He'll be targeted, lose confidence, and regress. 

At best he plays with Johnny brodzinski and Tim gettinger? 

He's not going to get anything out of ahl time. He's simply not.

I don't really agree. He'll get confidence. Time, space, slower game. Get to set up Poontangpie.

He's not getting anything out of NHL time either. He looks worse every day. 

[Dunny]

The last #1 to play substantive time in the AHL was Joe Murphy. Joe Murphy was a #1 bust. That was in 1987.

The only other two forwards to even sniff the AHL were Owen Nolan (I think some guy here kept comparing Lafreniere to Nolan) and Patrik Stefan. 

It's essentially an admittance of failure, so I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[Cash or Czech]

20 minutes ago, Dunny said:

The last #1 to play substantive time in the AHL was Joe Murphy. Joe Murphy was a #1 bust. That was in 1987.

The only other two forwards to even sniff the AHL were Owen Nolan (I think some guy here kept comparing Lafreniere to Nolan) and Patrik Stefan. 

It's essentially an admittance of failure, so I don't think it's going to happen.

 

Sure, but no #1OA since then has been as poor or produced as little as Lafreniere up to this point in their careers