Time for a Lafreniere Reset

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, josh said:

There is only so much you can do to make linemates better.

I mentioned before, he'll get the puck in the offensive zone, and everyone is standing behind defenders.

Last night, he had the puck in the [far] corner, Gauthier was behind a defender. Lafreniere played a perfect puck to the slot. All Gauthier had to do was NOT go further into coverage, and he did. If he had any sense of scoring, he takes one step into open space and gets a scoring chance in the slot. These plays happen time and time again. They dont have anyone who knows, or wants, to get open to shoot.

let me see if I can find it.

This is where Chytil is supposed to be that fit. He typically goes to where Lafreniere should be looking for a  pass. Lately, he's been holding on to the puck more than he should be.  Much like Gauthier,  but instead he just loses the puck almost instantly.  

Gauthier needs to stop trying to do it all with the puck. He was looking more effective when he would either take the puck straight to the net, or do smart thing away from the puck and set a screen/cause havoc Infont of the goalie.  

But do we WANT Lafreniere carrying the puck more than these guys? I haven't seen him really control pucks in any way when it's on his stick.

Where Chytil will skate into a defender and Gauthier is now skating the puck around the back of the net, when Lafreniere has the puck, he seems to turn flat footed and needs everyone else to do the work so he can thread some kinda pass.  I see him as slow in his decision making simply because he doesn't seem to be able to carry the puck, nor want to skate and create room/time for the set up.

It's gain the zone, float a pass across ice to the off wing and evacuate... Does he have any kind of shot? Where the fuck is it? When stupid Gauthier is swinging around the net and controlling the puck, why isn't Lafreniere setting up in the opposite slot or on the doorstep to receive any kind of pass? 

Not to make this all about Gauthier,  but when he's carrying the puck and wraps around the goal, it reminds me of Kovalev (as a Ranger),  and how his controlling the puck upon gaining the zone would always go to waste, because "where the fuck is everyone else?".  

Lafreniere needs to get his head out of his ass and adapt HIS game to his linemates. Because what HIS game is right now, isn't enough to carry a line and that's kinda what everyone thought we were drafting.  There better be more to him than being a poor skating set up man winger.. 

[The Dude]

40 minutes ago, josh said:

And he played much better, and was noticeable at both ends of the ice.

At this point, it's really just perception bias. This kid will never be anything in your eyes. And you seem to go out of your way to ignore any positives in his game.

Didn't he start the season on the top line though? He didn't really look all that great THEN.  

I'm lost on this kid. I honestly can't see what he truly excels at. There's no way EVERYONE was this wrong on the 1OA status. Not THIS off. 

[Ozzy]

I'm still watching Laffy develop.  I realize he's not Austin Mathews or McDavid...Those guys are outstanding generational talents from pretty much day 1.

Laf will get it eventually, I know he will.  I think he needs some time in the cooker and has to be held accountable, with no excuses.

The bright spots I do see is that he seems to play both ends of the ice fairly well for young guy, and he's also potted 6 goals this season, which puts him on pace for about what?  18-20?  That's not too bad for a 20 year old.  Yeah I know, he's a #1OA and that's probably why a lot of us expect the world from him...me included.

I think the kid is going to be very good...it's just going to take time.  I look at how far Kakko has come in a short time, and kinda liken it to him.

I do wanna see more from Laffy, that way @Buggposts more Yukon jokes!!!  ...but seriously, I'm looking at him and I expect a lot more.  I'll give him time because I know he's got a powder keg of talent, and he just has to find the magic to light the fuse.

Hang in there boys...we'll get there!

[josh]

There's only so much you can do.

I mentioned before, next time Lafreniere has the puck in the offensive side zone, take a glance at his linemates and where they are. 

If there are guys open, he gets it to them. Unfortunately,  there's no one open so he passes to the defense. Or panics and goes behind the net. He's got to carry the puck to the net more and his linemates gotta get open & ready.

[The Dude]

44 minutes ago, josh said:

maybe his reset is new linemates.

He's pretty much played with everyone.  No?  Maybe reset is a trade to Montreal or Vancouver for a fuckin HAUL. 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, josh said:

There's only so much you can do.

I mentioned before, next time Lafreniere has the puck in the offensive side zone, take a glance at his linemates and where they are. 

If there are guys open, he gets it to them. Unfortunately,  there's no one open so he passes to the defense. Or panics and goes behind the net. He's got to carry the puck to the net more and his linemates gotta get open & ready.

He has to skate more. Standing there looking for your open linemate that may or may not be there, isn't a top player trait. 

I mean,  look at where HE is when his linemates have the puck. Which seems to be more often than when HE does. 

Gauthier will wrap around the net and Lafreniere will still be trailing behind and staying on that left wing wall. Chytil could be skating straight at defenders.  Laff is in that same spot along the boards. Fucking MOVE kid!

Edited December 17, 2021 by The Dude

[josh]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

He has to skate more. Standing there looking for your open linemate that may or may not be there, isn't a top player trait. 

I'm just talking the offensive zone. 

He'll cause a turnover, get immediate space, look for someone...

If no one is open, he needs to start going to the net. It will open up things for him, he lacks the confidence to do it with the puck. But that's always been a Rangers issue. 

[The Dude]

Just now, josh said:

I'm just talking the offensive zone. 

He'll cause a turnover, get immediate space, look for someone...

If no one is open, he needs to start going to the net. It will open up things for him, he lacks the confidence to do it with the puck. But that's always been a Rangers issue. 

Oh I agree with what I think he SHOULD do in that instance. But he doesnt do it. Doesnt even look like it enters his mind. 

[Keirik]

We are complaining about his line mates when the guy drafted 1OA is supposed to be elevating other guys on his line, not the other way around. He gets the benefit of playing against easier matchups as well since our top 6 is a damn good top 6. 
 

 It is what it is. If his reset isn’t going to happen then so be it but he’s certainly not on the cusp of breaking out with this current path and he’s done nothing to hint that he deserves more. 

[josh]

7 minutes ago, Keirik said:

We are complaining about his line mates when the guy drafted 1OA is supposed to be elevating other guys on his line, not the other way around. He gets the benefit of playing against easier matchups as well since our top 6 is a damn good top 6. 
 

 It is what it is. If his reset isn’t going to happen then so be it but he’s certainly not on the cusp of breaking out with this current path and he’s done nothing to hint that he deserves more. 

Do we have stats about playing against d pairs? 

Asking, not challenging 

 

is there a 1OA that played with the likes of Chytil and Gauthier though? 

Panarin gets strome

Zibanejad gets his kreider

Its about putting him a spot to be successful. That line buzzed the first few games but there’s not enough production. When looking to switch things up, of the three players on that line, yeah I’m probably looking to see what helps a 1OA get going vs the other 2. But those guys need to be put in a place to be productive as well, and this ain’t it right now

[Pete]

Lafreniere got Zib AND Kreider... I think what's getting glossed over is that he played himself onto the third line.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Pete

[Keirik]

22 minutes ago, josh said:

Do we have stats about playing against d pairs? 

Asking, not challenging 

 

is there a 1OA that played with the likes of Chytil and Gauthier though? 

Panarin gets strome

Zibanejad gets his kreider

Its about putting him a spot to be successful. That line buzzed the first few games but there’s not enough production. When looking to switch things up, of the three players on that line, yeah I’m probably looking to see what helps a 1OA get going vs the other 2. But those guys need to be put in a place to be productive as well, and this ain’t it right now

I’m sure there are stats out there sure, but I’m not sure if that matters. No team out there is saving their top shutdown D pair for the Alf line either last year or this year. 

 As @Pete said, ALF has at times been given opportunities with other lines and hasn’t really shown too much. Even if we tried to say his production is less than it could be if given better linemates, it still doesn’t change his own efforts or just lack of anything explosive at all. It’s not like he’s standing out on the third line where it’s blatantly obvious there is eliteness in him. If there is, it’s buried deep inside. 
 

 I think the point is that I it seems like we are looking at every other reason as to why Alf isn’t being Alf. We are really doing a disservice to the kid. I really believe he needs a reset and I personally believe the best one is a stint away from the team at Hartford just so he can remember his own gifted talent.  It’s just not happening right now. 

[Pete]

"Nobody ever got worse by playing in the AHL." 

[Keirik]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

"Nobody ever got worse by playing in the AHL." 

I think there is that worry of what happens if he goes 10 games with 1 goal 2 assists in Hartford. But that’s a risk I’m willing to take.  If he’s legit, it shouldn’t be something we worry about.  And if he doesn’t perform down there then we aren’t any worse than we are here. 

[Winter]

9 hours ago, Pete said:

Lafreniere got Zib AND Kreider... I think what's getting glossed over is that he played himself onto the third line.

For sure, only having 2 players on the team with more goals than he. -- and he sees ZERO time on the PP. 

[Keirik]

2 hours ago, Winter said:

For sure, only having 2 players on the team with more goals than he. -- and he sees ZERO time on the PP. 

He sees pp2 time on the ice. It doesn’t get as much time, rightfully so, as pp1 but he still averages a minute and a half pp time per game.  Alf hasn’t even registered a pp point yet in his entire NHL career.  I’m not sure why we are cherry picking his stats with this idea of “only two guys on the team with more goals than he” as if this means too much. Sure, this is technically true but he’s 9th on the team in points. Hell, he has one more point than Rooney who also has 6 goals along with Alf. Should Rooney replace someone on pp1? 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Winter said:

For sure, only having 2 players on the team with more goals than he. -- and he sees ZERO time on the PP. 

Guess you feel it's better to be lucky than good. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

I'm with Pete here (). It's time to stop making excuses all the time for this kid.

It's not about not being McDavid or Matthews, now its about being a decent NHL player and Lafreniere is not that. He had one of the worst rookie seasons for a 1OA in a long time and he's actually pacing a worse season on a much improved team with a much better coach this season. He's got 8 points in 29 games. 6 goals, where atleast 4 of them was in an empty net.

He was supposed to be an elite playmaker with a high IQ and vision and a nice pass. The dude got 11 assists in 85 games. I don't even understand how that's possible.

For comparison:
Yakupov year 1: 31 in 48
Yakupov year 2: 24 in 68

RNH year 1: 52 in 62
RNH year 2: 24 in 40

Laf year 1: 21 in 62
Laf year 2: 8 in 29 (so far)

[LindG1000]

Well, he's going to get a few games with some damn good players with Panarin down for a little bit. Let's see how he does.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

16 minutes ago, G1000 said:

Well, he's going to get a few games with some damn good players with Panarin down for a little bit. Let's see how he does.

Not really tho. He'll be playing with Strome and Hunt? Strome is a solid player, but I have a feeling that line will look like a mess.

He's played with everyone on the team at this point and he got a good look with Mika - Kreider without that changing much in his game.

He's closing in on 100 NHL games and I don't even remember one game where he had me thinking "this guy is gonna be stud". That's brutal.

[LindG1000]

Just now, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Not really tho. He'll be playing with Strome and Hunt? Strome is a solid player, but I have a feeling that line will look like a mess.

He's played with everyone on the team at this point and he got a good look with Mika - Kreider without that changing much in his game.

He's closing in on 100 NHL games and I don't even remember one game where he had me thinking "this guy is gonna be stud". That's brutal.

Based on what, though? 

The chance of a top 5 pick becoming a stud player is just under 50%. The chance of a 1st overall becoming a stud player is marginally better. And they tend to take some time if they're not thrown directly into the top 6/pp1 space. It's probably also worth noting that when he got the looks up the lineup in the last 10 games or so of last season, he scored at almost exactly the pace you'd look for in a top pick in year 1 - around .65 p/g

I'm not sitting here saying we're seeing enough - we're not, and there are a series of fair questions here as to why we're not seeing growth in his game because he's failing the eye test right now. But I am saying that we're being impatient and unrealistic if we think every single top pick is going to hit the ground running fast - doubly so when they'd ostensibly lost 18 months of development. 

 

Underlying numbers are good. Linemates are generally not, looks have been far and few between, and he's fundamentally blocked from more ice time without someone changing position or a trade. I'm willing to be patient with a high character, high potential outcome guy.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

5 minutes ago, G1000 said:

But I am saying that we're being impatient and unrealistic if we think every single top pick is going to hit the ground running fast

It would be nice if atleast one of them could do that tho.

But I agree with most of what you're saying. It's obviously still early, the kid is just 20 years, but seing a decrease in his already low scoring from year 1 is concerning. Have there ever been a top 3 pick that started bad, had an even worse 2nd year and then all of a sudden turned into a star?

I do feel his character and mentality is gonna get him far, but not as far as I hoped when I saw that Rangers logo on that pingpong ball I guess.

[Pete]

18 minutes ago, G1000 said:

Based on what, though? 

The chance of a top 5 pick becoming a stud player is just under 50%. The chance of a 1st overall becoming a stud player is marginally better. And they tend to take some time if they're not thrown directly into the top 6/pp1 space. It's probably also worth noting that when he got the looks up the lineup in the last 10 games or so of last season, he scored at almost exactly the pace you'd look for in a top pick in year 1 - around .65 p/g

I'm not sitting here saying we're seeing enough - we're not, and there are a series of fair questions here as to why we're not seeing growth in his game because he's failing the eye test right now. But I am saying that we're being impatient and unrealistic if we think every single top pick is going to hit the ground running fast - doubly so when they'd ostensibly lost 18 months of development. 

 

Underlying numbers are good. Linemates are generally not, looks have been far and few between, and he's fundamentally blocked from more ice time without someone changing position or a trade. I'm willing to be patient with a high character, high potential outcome guy.

Dunno, bro...the #9 from 2019 looks more stud-like than the #2  from '19 and the #1 from '20.

[The Dude]

21 minutes ago, G1000 said:

Based on what, though? 

The chance of a top 5 pick becoming a stud player is just under 50%. The chance of a 1st overall becoming a stud player is marginally better. And they tend to take some time if they're not thrown directly into the top 6/pp1 space. It's probably also worth noting that when he got the looks up the lineup in the last 10 games or so of last season, he scored at almost exactly the pace you'd look for in a top pick in year 1 - around .65 p/g

I'm not sitting here saying we're seeing enough - we're not, and there are a series of fair questions here as to why we're not seeing growth in his game because he's failing the eye test right now. But I am saying that we're being impatient and unrealistic if we think every single top pick is going to hit the ground running fast - doubly so when they'd ostensibly lost 18 months of development. 

 

Underlying numbers are good. Linemates are generally not, looks have been far and few between, and he's fundamentally blocked from more ice time without someone changing position or a trade. I'm willing to be patient with a high character, high potential outcome guy.

He started THIS season with Kreider and Zibanejad.  He dint keep that spot. He didn't and doesn't look good.  Nothing is overly impressive about his game.  This isn't a matter of not playing or not getting an opportunity with better players.  He's had that.

Wanna try it again? I'm fine with that.  But let's not act like he hasn't had to chances. 

With Panarin out, who do they play on that RW? Hunt isn't going to help Lafreniere. 

[-ERIK-]

3 hours ago, Keirik said:

He sees pp2 time on the ice. It doesn’t get as much time, rightfully so, as pp1 but he still averages a minute and a half pp time per game.  Alf hasn’t even registered a pp point yet in his entire NHL career.  I’m not sure why we are cherry picking his stats with this idea of “only two guys on the team with more goals than he” as if this means too much. Sure, this is technically true but he’s 9th on the team in points. Hell, he has one more point than Rooney who also has 6 goals along with Alf. Should Rooney replace someone on pp1? 

PP2 time, yes but usually it's after the first unit stays on for a min and 35 seconds,then  the second unit gets about 25 seconds to get anything going a few times a game.