Cash or Czech Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I feel like we've had a lot more successes than failures when we send an NHL roster player down and for a month or two and then bring them back up. Worked as far back as Kreider, Zuccarello, and McDonagh. Even worked for Chytil a couple years ago and that was only for nine games. Kravtsov and Lias were the two that didn't, but each has had their own attitude problems that I don't think would be an issue with Laf. Based on his play and his output, there's almost nothing statistical or otherwise to say that he would be better served continuing to suck at the NHL level. Maybe some increased ice time and better linemates will help while Panarin is out, but I'm not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said: It would be nice if atleast one of them could do that tho. But I agree with most of what you're saying. It's obviously still early, the kid is just 20 years, but seing a decrease in his already low scoring from year 1 is concerning. Have there ever been a top 3 pick that started bad, had an even worse 2nd year and then all of a sudden turned into a star? I do feel his character and mentality is gonna get him far, but not as far as I hoped when I saw that Rangers logo on that pingpong ball I guess. Sure. We'd love to have a guy just hit the ground running when we've spent a premium asset like a top pick to get him. I want that too, but the guy is 20. The underlying numbers are markedly better. Always ups and downs early in careers as players look to rediscover their games at a higher level and find consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Lafrenier has played 85 games in the NHL. That's one full season + 3 games. He's almost still a rookie. Some perspective, folks. Majority of NHLers dont "figure it out" until 3-4 seasons in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Laf gets to play with the high scoring Goodrow and fast as lightning Gaut tonight. Lets see how many points he's going to put up tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, CCCP said: Lafrenier has played 85 games in the NHL. That's one full season + 3 games. He's almost still a rookie. Some perspective, folks. Majority of NHLers dont "figure it out" until 3-4 seasons in Majority of NHLers aren't first overall picks. What he's shown relative to first-overall picks is humiliating. Some more perspective? Yakupov — a unanimous bust — had 17 goals in his first 48 games (0.35 G/GP) and scored 28 through his first 111 games (0.25). Lafreniere has 18 through 85 (0.2). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Phil said: Majority of NHLers aren't first overall picks. What he's shown relative to first-overall picks is humiliating. Some more perspective? Yakupov showed more. Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, CCCP said: Lafrenier has played 85 games in the NHL. That's one full season + 3 games. He's almost still a rookie. Some perspective, folks. Majority of NHLers dont "figure it out" until 3-4 seasons in Alexis Lafreniere: 18 goals, 29 points in 85 NHL games. .34 points/game Jack Hughes 1st two seasons: 18 goals, 52 points in 117 NHL games. .44 points/game The difference is the eye test tbh. Hughes has blazing speed and is making plays, noticeable on the ice. Lafreniere just kinda...isn't. I'm surprised their goal numbers are equal, but that's a huge difference in assists. And Lafreniere was playing with Zibanejad and Buchnevich for a bit last season. The good thing is with a full NHL season, he might end up better than Hughes in points/game. He'll definitely surpass him in goals. Edited December 17, 2021 by Cash or Czech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, jsrangers said: Who? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Phil said: Exactly. I'm kidding he's the dancing with the stars guy who nailed down Nikki Bella, good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Cash or Czech said: I feel like we've had a lot more successes than failures when we send an NHL roster player down and for a month or two and then bring them back up. Worked as far back as Kreider, Zuccarello, and McDonagh. Even worked for Chytil a couple years ago and that was only for nine games. Kravtsov and Lias were the two that didn't, but each has had their own attitude problems that I don't think would be an issue with Laf. Based on his play and his output, there's almost nothing statistical or otherwise to say that he would be better served continuing to suck at the NHL level. Maybe some increased ice time and better linemates will help while Panarin is out, but I'm not convinced. Can we stop using Chytil as a Hartford success story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, josh said: Can we stop using Chytil as a Hartford success story? Are we really going to nitpick one line, especially when that assignment helped increase his points/game season over season by 23%? Yes, this is easily his worst statistical season so far. Lets see if his shift to wing the next couple games and with different players does anything. Edited December 17, 2021 by Cash or Czech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 30 minutes ago, Phil said: Majority of NHLers aren't first overall picks. What he's shown relative to first-overall picks is humiliating. Some more perspective? Yakupov — a unanimous bust — had 17 goals in his first 48 games (0.35 G/GP) and scored 28 through his first 111 games (0.25). Lafreniere has 18 through 85 (0.2). not everyone's development curve is the same. it doesnt matter where they were picked. Yakupov is an obvious NHL bust. Jury is till out on Lafreniere. Not every hockey player came out of one set of balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 30 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said: Alexis Lafreniere: 18 goals, 29 points in 85 NHL games. .34 points/game Jack Hughes 1st two seasons: 18 goals, 52 points in 117 NHL games. .44 points/game The difference is the eye test tbh. Hughes has blazing speed and is making plays, noticeable on the ice. Lafreniere just kinda...isn't. I'm surprised their goal numbers are equal, but that's a huge difference in assists. And Lafreniere was playing with Zibanejad and Buchnevich for a bit last season. The good thing is with a full NHL season, he might end up better than Hughes in points/game. He'll definitely surpass him in goals. Hughes gets prime PP time where Laf is behind you know who. i know it's very hard for us Ranger fans but patience is a virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, CCCP said: not everyone's development curve is the same. it doesnt matter where they were picked. Yakupov is an obvious NHL bust. Jury is till out on Lafreniere. Not every hockey player came out of one set of balls. It absolutely matters where they were picked. If it didn't, the draft wouldn't exist and teams wouldn't give two shits about first-round picks. When selecting first-overall, the idea is the player you are taking stands a good chance of being an above-average NHL player, or in the case of someone like Lafreniere, an exceptionally above-average player. In his case, he was selected with the expectation of being a long-term pillar of the organization, and to date, he's performed like a replacement level fringe third-line player. If you want to dismiss this by citing development curves, by all means, but you're on an island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Phil said: It absolutely matters where they were picked. If it didn't, the draft wouldn't exist and teams wouldn't give two shits about first-round picks. When selecting first-overall, the idea is the player you are taking stands a good chance of being an above-average NHL player, or in the case of someone like Lafreniere, an exceptionally above-average player. In his case, he was selected with the expectation of being a long-term pillar of the organization, and to date, he's performed like a replacement level fringe third-line player. If you want to dismiss this by citing development curves, by all means, but you're on an island. good chance but no guarantees. he's one full year in, give him time before shutting the door on him is all im saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Just keep playing him and hope for the best. It’s all they can do. and hopefully he trains with a Crosby or a Gary Robert’s in the off season and a skating coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, CCCP said: good chance but no guarantees. he's one full year in, give him time before shutting the door on him is all im saying. I'm not shutting the door on him — I'm simply stating that it's entirely reasonable to be utterly disappointed with the player he's been to this point. His ELC value alone is reason not to simply pull the chute, but come time for that second contract, I'm gonna be looking at production, not promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, Phil said: I'm not shutting the door on him — I'm simply stating that it's entirely reasonable to be utterly disappointed with the player he's been to this point. His ELC value alone is reason not to simply pull the chute, but come time for that second contract, I'm gonna be looking at production, not promise. obviously. we're all disappointed, we all expected the next one. but im a glass full kinda guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWantsTheCup Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, josh said: Can we stop using Chytil as a Hartford success story? At this point Chytil and success shouldn't be in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, CCCP said: good chance but no guarantees. he's one full year in, give him time before shutting the door on him is all im saying. He's the worst performing 'one year in' 1OA in a very long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said: He's the worst performing 'one year in' 1OA in a very long time not disputing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said: He's the worst performing 'one year in' 1OA in a very long time Since Yakupov ('12). Before that, Stefan ('99) or Daigle ('93). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 32 minutes ago, Phil said: Since Yakupov ('12). Before that, Stefan ('99) or Daigle ('93). Well If I wasn’t depressed before… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 17, 2021 Author Share Posted December 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Phil said: It absolutely matters where they were picked. If it didn't, the draft wouldn't exist and teams wouldn't give two shits about first-round picks. When selecting first-overall, the idea is the player you are taking stands a good chance of being an above-average NHL player, or in the case of someone like Lafreniere, an exceptionally above-average player. In his case, he was selected with the expectation of being a long-term pillar of the organization, and to date, he's performed like a replacement level fringe third-line player. If you want to dismiss this by citing development curves, by all means, but you're on an island. 2 hours ago, Phil said: I'm not shutting the door on him — I'm simply stating that it's entirely reasonable to be utterly disappointed with the player he's been to this point. His ELC value alone is reason not to simply pull the chute, but come time for that second contract, I'm gonna be looking at production, not promise. It's not just all this....It's also that this is a thread about where Lafreniere is today., not 3-4 years. Today, he's not an NHL player, he should be in the AHL. It's just that simple. Where he is in 3-4 years, we'll discuss in 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 He is an NHL player now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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