Rangers Give Kravtsov Permission to Seek Trade; Loaned to KHL

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

2 minutes ago, Capt said:

Keith Olberman talking about people being out of their mind.  Talk about pot meeting kettle.  

 

Part of nurturing a player would be instilling in the player a work ethic if he doesn't have one.  To coddle or excuse a young player who doesn't want to work is ridiculous.  That player will never work out anyway.  It seems to me that VK was told for 2 years at least to put in the work and each time he had a tantrum.  So yeah watching a kid waste away his talent may result in a last ditch effort to get through to him.  It all goes back to the entitled lazy player.  To come to the conclusion that Drury is now Buddy Revel from 3 o'clock high is completely unfair and typical internet speculation.  Drury has a history in this league and in the spotlight, going all the way back to little league.  There has never been any report that he's not a great person or teammate.  In fact his greatest asset as a player was exactly the intangible of him being a leader.

 

If Messier dressed down VK everyone here would be all for it not questioning if he was a bully

We're using his little league career to defend him now?

If Messier was GM he wouldn't know what he was doing either.  There is a difference between a captain and a GM.  The failure to identify that seems to be a very large part of the problem here. 

[Pete]

Did we really cross over to a world where rando Olberman tweets hold more weight than a 30 year character resume?

Did Drury really have everyone fooled until a crack team of internet sleuths cracked the code?

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Did we really cross over to a world where rando Olberman tweets hold more weight than a 30 year character resume?

Did Drury really have everyone fooled until a crack team of internet sleuths cracked the code?

Why not? We crossed over to where we started taking articles from the NY Post as pure factual. 

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

He had Dolan fooled, that's all that mattered in this case.  JD and Gorts are gone and didn't comment on the details. 

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

Dolan doesn't know enough about hockey to make these decisions on his own.  Look who's in charge now, the last man standing.  Wonder how that happened?

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Why not? We crossed over to where we started taking articles from the NY Post as pure factual. 

On Kravtsov? The Post and The Athletic have both confirmed various aspects of this story. So, even if you want to throw the Post out, you're gonna have an awfully difficult time squaring away how Arthur Staple came to the same conclusions.

[Keirik]

12 minutes ago, Phil said:

On Kravtsov? The Post and The Athletic have both confirmed various aspects of this story. So, even if you want to throw the Post out, you're gonna have an awfully difficult time squaring away how Arthur Staple came to the same conclusions.

It’s not that hard to come to a conclusion. The NYR leaked what they felt is their side of things in a not so private, “hey we want this to get out, oh no how did this get out”  kind of way to make the organization look like this was out of their control. The only thing missing is the Gorton style press conference saying how this was forced due to a self initiated ultimatum. But hey, I guess Drury learned this somewhere and figured this was better than a press conference. 

[Capt]

32 minutes ago, TwoMinutesForNothing said:

We're using his little league career to defend him now?

If Messier was GM he wouldn't know what he was doing either.  There is a difference between a captain and a GM.  The failure to identify that seems to be a very large part of the problem here. 

Yeah because he didn't have a NHL career or anything.  Might as well cherry pick though.  People here are coming to the conclusion that Drury is a bully or some kind of unhinged lunatic running around in the guise of a GM.  That he came up with a conspiracy to get both Gorton and JD fired so he could unleash his masterplan to prey on the Rangers foreign youth because he has a special hatred for Euros.  That is what is being speculated here and I'm the one that is out of line talking about his history dating back to little league.  A history that in every regard is a sterling record as a human and leader.  That says nothing of being a GM you're right but it does speak to his character that people here unfairly and irresponsibly  speculate about.

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

4 minutes ago, Capt said:

Yeah because he didn't have a NHL career or anything.  Might as well cherry pick though.  People here are coming to the conclusion that Drury is a bully or some kind of unhinged lunatic running around in the guise of a GM.  That he came up with a conspiracy to get both Gorton and JD fired so he could unleash his masterplan to prey on the Rangers foreign youth because he has a special hatred for Euros.  That is what is being speculated here and I'm the one that is out of line talking about his history dating back to little league.  A history that in every regard is a sterling record as a human and leader.  That says nothing of being a GM you're right but it does speak to his character that people here unfairly and irresponsibly  speculate about.

You met him?  You know him?  Bill Cosby had a sterling reputation at one point. 

[LindG1000]

35 minutes ago, Pete said:

Did we really cross over to a world where rando Olberman tweets hold more weight than a 30 year character resume?

Did Drury really have everyone fooled until a crack team of internet sleuths cracked the code?

Welcome to the digital age, where sitting on the toilet taking a shit with your phone in hand makes you a doctor of your subject of choice, because internet sleuths.

Most of the things being discussed here (aside from this Olbermann conspiracy insanity) can be true. Kravtsov is an immature prick. Drury is very much still learning the line to walk between being a manager and a captain/coach (and if he wants to go coach, great). We've had an oddly difficult go of things with top picks in recent years. All probably mostly accurate statements.

[Pete]

So this is what the inside of a K hole looks like...I'd love to leave, what's in here scares me, but my body won't respond to the instructions I'm giving it to remove itself from this unholy environment...

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

And once again being a captain has nothing to do with being a GM.  Having a reputation as a leader as a player has nothing to do with how a front office exec would treat players and whether or not he would bully.

Michael Jordan had a reputation as a great leader and captain and we also know that he was a huge asshole and bullied many of his teammates.  

[Keirik]

12 minutes ago, G1000 said:

Welcome to the digital age, where sitting on the toilet taking a shit with your phone in hand makes you a doctor of your subject of choice, because internet sleuths.

Most of the things being discussed here (aside from this Olbermann conspiracy insanity) can be true. Kravtsov is an immature prick. Drury is very much still learning the line to walk between being a manager and a captain/coach (and if he wants to go coach, great). We've had an oddly difficult go of things with top picks in recent years. All probably mostly accurate statements.

It’s funny because we all are arguing with each other when it seems that if you connect all the dots on every side, we all probably are partly right in some way.

 

  In the end I’m just more worried how this is now a second top pick wasted, a shithead of a person offered a contract and cut weeks into the season thinking that just putting on a sweater was magically going to make him a good person, a beloved figure in JD being shown the door in the way he did, and a current coach that one day says basically “ not my call” about Kravtsov and the next day changing his story. 
 

something seems a miss here. 

[SaveByRichter35]

Man this is getting good.  

[Shane Falco]

1 minute ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Man this is getting good.  

[LindG1000]

6 minutes ago, Keirik said:

It’s funny because we all are arguing with each other when it seems that if you connect all the dots on every side, we all probably are partly right in some way.

 

  In the end I’m just more worried how this is now a second top pick wasted, a shithead of a person offered a contract and cut weeks into the season thinking that just putting on a sweater was magically going to make him a good person, a beloved figure in JD being shown the door in the way he did, and a current coach that one day says basically “ not my call” about Kravtsov and the next day changing his story. 
 

something seems a miss here. 

We could just apply Occam's Razor and take a swing at it - the Rangers have probably done a very poor job screening for character and leadership at all levels since 2015 or so and overcorrected with the Drury hire. 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, TwoMinutesForNothing said:

Was this ever discussed here?  This is who is in charge here.  He is a piece of shit and he is also an absolute idiot. It took an idiot like Dolan to give him the reigns.  He had always stayed out of things with the Rangers, but we are now officially the Knicks.

@KeithOlbermann

 

I say this with all seriousness, and fully aware that Chris Drury ran a fantastic campaign to undermine John Davidson and Jeff Gorton and get Dolan to fire him: Drury is out of his fucking mind. He is the Brodie Van Wagenen of #NYR and must be exorcised immediately.

THE Keith Olbermann? 

Yuck. Fuck him. This absolved Drury of anything. If this kook is saying this happened. It most likely didn't. Olbermann makes me absolutely sick. 

[Capt]

38 minutes ago, TwoMinutesForNothing said:

You met him?  You know him?  Bill Cosby had a sterling reputation at one point. 

Wow.  Maybe Drury has 30 or 40 Euro prospects waiting to come out of the closet to say how he bullied them into quitting their dreams of playing NHL hockey.  Yup I'm sure that's reasonable.  

 

You keep speaking of this false argument that Drury was a good captain but that doesn't mean he's a good GM.  No shit.  Yet that isn't the argument I have an issue with.  Drury is noted as a good teammate and good person.  While I don't know him I do know 2 former NHL players both whom know him very well one was a teammate of him here.  You asked.  He's always been regarded as a great person by them and by anything you have ever read about him.  That has nothing to do with the job it has to do with the human.  Of course he could have everyone fooled and he's actually the Son of Sam, he just waited until his mid 40's and after 20 plus years around the NHL to show it.  Yup your case sounds reasonable and responsible to push on the internet.  Some proof of him being a piece of shit would be great but hey your speculation should be good enough.

[AliveIn94]

36 minutes ago, G1000 said:

Welcome to the digital age, where sitting on the toilet taking a shit with your phone in hand makes you a doctor of your subject of choice, because internet sleuths.

Most of the things being discussed here (aside from this Olbermann conspiracy insanity) can be true. Kravtsov is an immature prick. Drury is very much still learning the line to walk between being a manager and a captain/coach (and if he wants to go coach, great). We've had an oddly difficult go of things with top picks in recent years. All probably mostly accurate statements.

Pretty much this.

I look at it this way.

 

Since the 2018 draft:

Loss: Andersson, Kravtsov(?), Buchnevich, Howden

Gained: Strome, Panarin, Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller, Lundkvist, Schneider

If we lost or didn't sign either Strome or Panarin and lose two of those prospects for "attitude" or etc. reasons, then the org would hit the panic button and I would agree with that. If none of those prospects pan out there would be cause for alarm sure but not Defcon 5, and that looks extremely unlikely at the moment and we probably won't know in 2 years or more how some work out. I know that "The Process" is a meme, but we'd still be in trouble if Panarin didn't work out (extremely unlikely) or Strome (somewhat likely), but the jury's still out for the rest.

[Long live the King]

[The Dude]

13 minutes ago, AliveIn94 said:

Pretty much this.

I look at it this way.

 

Since the 2018 draft:

Loss: Andersson, Kravtsov(?), Buchnevich, Howden

Gained: Strome, Panarin, Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller, Lundkvist, Schneider

If we lost or didn't sign either Strome or Panarin and lose two of those prospects for "attitude" or etc. reasons, then the org would hit the panic button and I would agree with that. If none of those prospects pan out there would be cause for alarm sure but not Defcon 5, and that looks extremely unlikely at the moment and we probably won't know in 2 years or more how some work out. I know that "The Process" is a meme, but we'd still be in trouble if Panarin didn't work out (extremely unlikely) or Strome (somewhat likely), but the jury's still out for the rest.

Wasn't Rykov a guy that also wanted nothing to do Hartford and the Rangers? Not like he's in the league, with another team, but he was highly regarded for 5 minutes until he left. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Keirik said:

It’s not that hard to come to a conclusion. The NYR leaked what they felt is their side of things in a not so private, “hey we want this to get out, oh no how did this get out”  kind of way to make the organization look like this was out of their control. The only thing missing is the Gorton style press conference saying how this was forced due to a self initiated ultimatum. But hey, I guess Drury learned this somewhere and figured this was better than a press conference. 

So, to recap:

If we don't like what the reporter says, doubt the credibility of the reporter.

If we don't like what outlet the reporter writes for, doubt the credibility of the outlet.

If we don't like what the content of the reports indicate, dispell it all as a giant fabrication by the team looking to plant stories.

And you wonder why were growing exacerbated with what we see as endless excuse-making for a player who quit on his team TWICE?

[Bugg]

At the point, simply let's see what happens. 

Not everything has a grand overarching theory to it. Dolan is a jerk, but he owns the team. And Drury was getting this job, if not now, someday soon. Gorton and Davidson did preside over some bad things, and their supposed patience with a team including  Panarin, Zib,. Fox , Igor and two of the top 3 picks in 2 drafts does look a bit misplaced. Add in paying a pile of cash to D'Angelo to coach kids in south Jersey last season rather being here, tool he may be, was very dumb. 

Either they figure out a way to make Kravstov work here, or they trade him. The rest is details. And you would hope everyone involved will learn something. 

If getting yelled out by someone in authority in in entry level job, be it as a pro hockey player or a teacher or a fireman or a dishwasher,  is now bullying, what the fuck. Soft bitches. 

 

 

[AliveIn94]

5 minutes ago, Bugg said:

At the point, simply let's see what happens. 

Not everything has a grand overarching theory to it. Dolan is a jerk, but he owns the team. And Drury was getting this job, if not now, someday soon. Gorton and Davidson did preside over some bad things, and their supposed patience with a team including  Panarin, Zib,. Fox , Igor and two of the top 3 picks in 2 drafts does look a bit misplaced. Add in paying a pile of cash to D'Angelo to coach kids in south Jersey last season rather being here, tool he may be, was very dumb. 

Either they figure out a way to make Kravstov work here, or they trade him. The rest is details. And you would hope everyone involved will learn something. 

If getting yelled out by someone in authority in in entry level job, be it as a pro hockey player or a teacher or a fireman or a dishwasher,  is now bullying, what the fuck. Soft bitches. 

 

 

I agree. The key word is "professional" hockey player. There is a set of standards and values there, in any job, especially a job where you make a 6 or 7 or 8 figure salary and are already highly regarded by the organization.

It's also a job where you can't hide your warts or manipulate your way into the good graces. Sports, obviously, are very much a "show me" and "what have you done for me (or the other teams in the league) lately?" profession.

If Lias was bullied as was mentioned earlier that's unfortunate and I wish him the best. He did, however, never seem to get on track here even when he walked through the door.

That's what makes this tough for everyone. Kravtsov has obviously shown improvement and potential, but being a phenomenal player in the KHL is different when you consider the expectations in the NHL. The organization holds most of the cards, sure, but they drafted you with a high pick and have never said a bad word about your potential and skills. They also pay you for the contract you signed and support most of these young players with coaching and state of the art facilities and equipment.

 

Imagine you're a finance guy that gets the gig at Goldman Sachs, but you have to attend company functions when problems pop up. Who would get that far in their field then decide to walk to the end of the driveway and say, "Eh, fuck that job!", when THE most prestigious, elite organization calls your number and praises your ability?

Short-sighted, but hey, he's 20. I hope for the best, because I think he'd regret missing out on proving himself as the best of the best when he apparently thinks he is. You won't get that in the KHL, and most NHL teams won't put you there until you demonstrate you can deal with adversity, which if he had and accepted his assignment he'd be at least a top 9 and 2PP player now and possibly for most of the season if he performed.

[Keirik]

43 minutes ago, Phil said:

So, to recap:

If we don't like what the reporter says, doubt the credibility of the reporter.

If we don't like what outlet the reporter writes for, doubt the credibility of the outlet.

If we don't like what the content of the reports indicate, dispell it all as a giant fabrication by the team looking to plant stories.

And you wonder why were growing exacerbated with what we see as endless excuse-making for a player who quit on his team TWICE?

And I can't say the exact same thing the other way? Hell we can always interchange that exact thought. And you can say he quit Twice and guys like me can say how does this happen twice to two different prospects in such a short time frame? 

 

It's all in good discussion. I've repeatedly said I think there is blame all around for this one, but in the end when I see this happen multiple times i see it as a bigger problem rather than just pointing fingers at teenagers and young adults. I get it. It's not a popular opinion and I get how these kids ultimately are babies but I expect more out of our organization in handling these situations.  We have a coach saying two different things. We have an organization leaking info. We have zero quotes from Kravtsov himself as far as I know. We have a former prospect saying he was bullied too. Something is very amiss to me.