Rangers Give Kravtsov Permission to Seek Trade; Loaned to KHL

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Keirik said:

We have an organization leaking info.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

8 hours ago, Keirik said:

It's all in good discussion. I've repeatedly said I think there is blame all around for this one, but in the end when I see this happen multiple times i see it as a bigger problem rather than just pointing fingers at teenagers and young adults. I get it. It's not a popular opinion and I get how these kids ultimately are babies but I expect more out of our organization in handling these situations.  We have a coach saying two different things. We have an organization leaking info. We have zero quotes from Kravtsov himself as far as I know. We have a former prospect saying he was bullied too. Something is very amiss to me. 

   

This. Its easier to blame the "kid", instead of actually looking at the org and maybe realize that there's some problems there I guess.

3 hours ago, Pete said:

So how do you think these writers got info about the exit meetings behind closed doors? Do you think Kravtsov himself called these writers and tell them? Or maybe they've installed some secret microphones in the meeting room?

[Pete]

39 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

This. Its easier to blame the "kid", instead of actually looking at the org and maybe realize that there's some problems there I guess.

So how do you think these writers got info about the exit meetings behind closed doors? Do you think Kravtsov himself called these writers and tell them? Or maybe they've installed some secret microphones in the meeting room?

You realize there's a nuanced difference between a reporter having well placed sources and the team leaking info on purpose. If that were the case, why would they leave the part in about Drury yelling at ... Wait, sorry now we're dramatizing it as "bullying" ... Kravtsov?

As far as this storyline being pushed about the Rangers not liking Euros...I dunno...tough sell there when the proof points go back 20 years of management. I haven't heard Lundqvist, Zibenejad, Buch, Panarin, Chytil, Lundkvist, etc complain about the way they've been treated. 

Like if the Rangers hate Euros and Russians, why do they keep picking them with high picks?

[Gravesy]

Thoroughly enjoying the windmilling and projections to paint Drury as some sort of beastly gollum lumbering around the halls of MSG baying for fresh Russian meat tbh.

[Pete]

Just now, Gravesy said:

Thoroughly enjoying the windmilling and projections to paint Drury as some sort of beastly gollum lumbering around the halls of MSG baying for fresh Russian meat tbh.

Apparently Drury also made Jagr leave, too. Seems he's always been there, in the shadows, manipulating. Kind of like Al Pacino in The Devil's Advocate.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Pete

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

14 hours ago, Capt said:

Except Drury wasn't the GM when this happened, he was the Assistant GM.  So instead of Gorton handling the dirty work and sending the message that needed to be sent he sent his Assistant to do it as not to dirty the relationship between the player and GM.  Sounds like perfect player management actually. Unless of course the Rangers should just ignore the lack of work ethic as to not upset the baby.

Are you making this up as you go? Now Gorton asked Drury to do his dirty work? Please show me where there is any evidence of this. I'll even accept conspiracy theory Twitter feeds, as this sounds so ridiculous.

Furthermore it even if it was true, it would still not be great management for an executive to upstage the coaching staff's authority by publicly dressing down a player. 

Also please stop making obtuse arguments. Kravtsov having poor conditioning habits and Rangers management mishandling this situation are not mutually exclusive ideas. It's possible for both of them to be true you know.

 

[LindG1000]

20 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

Thoroughly enjoying the windmilling and projections to paint Drury as some sort of beastly gollum lumbering around the halls of MSG baying for fresh Russian meat tbh.

We've actually obtained exclusive footage of Chris Drury and Vitali Kravtsov's final meeting.

[Cash or Czech]

Why does a 19-year old rookie get the benefit of the doubt but the 45 year old with a history of success, winning, and leadership (and former NYR captain) get slammed due to the tweets of one shitty reporter?

[Phil]

10 hours ago, Keirik said:

And I can't say the exact same thing the other way? Hell we can always interchange that exact thought. And you can say he quit Twice and guys like me can say how does this happen twice to two different prospects in such a short time frame? 

It's all in good discussion. I've repeatedly said I think there is blame all around for this one, but in the end when I see this happen multiple times i see it as a bigger problem rather than just pointing fingers at teenagers and young adults. I get it. It's not a popular opinion and I get how these kids ultimately are babies but I expect more out of our organization in handling these situations.  We have a coach saying two different things. We have an organization leaking info. We have zero quotes from Kravtsov himself as far as I know. We have a former prospect saying he was bullied too. Something is very amiss to me.

Can you? What have I expressly rejected? Bring the receipts.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

This. Its easier to blame the "kid", instead of actually looking at the org and maybe realize that there's some problems there I guess.

So how do you think these writers got info about the exit meetings behind closed doors? Do you think Kravtsov himself called these writers and tell them? Or maybe they've installed some secret microphones in the meeting room?

You're aware that Kravtsov has an agent, yes, and that agents also leak information? The entire inside sources industry is built on this. The information these people get either comes from a source with the team, or the players' agent.

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, Gravesy said:

Thoroughly enjoying the windmilling and projections to paint Drury as some sort of beastly gollum lumbering around the halls of MSG baying for fresh Russian meat tbh.

It is possible. They could be seen as soft. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

The real question is who gets traded first Eichel or Kravtsov?

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

52 minutes ago, Xander said:

Why does a 19-year old rookie get the benefit of the doubt but the 45 year old with a history of success, winning, and leadership (and former NYR captain) get slammed due to the tweets of one shitty reporter?

I don't think anyone is giving Krav the benefit of the doubt here? Its one side who says "Krav fucked up, but the org fucked up aswell" and the other side is claiming Kravtsov is an entitled, spoiled little shit kid that does everything wrong.

20 minutes ago, Phil said:

You're aware that Kravtsov has an agent, yes, and that agents also leak information? The entire inside sources industry is built on this. The information these people get either comes from a source with the team, or the players' agent.

So you think Kravtsov's agent called the writers to leak it? Not the organisation that's daily in contact with these writers? I don't see any reason Krav and his camp would leak the information that's been leaked from that meeting, it does him no good.

[Phil]

I don't know who called who to leak what. What I'm saying is that Kravtov's agent is just as capable of leaking stories to the press to shine a more favorable light on his client. Perhaps he did regarding Drury dressing him down in the locker room in the latest Staple piece? We have no real way to know who is leaking what, is my entire point. This is being selectively applied to paint the organization in a bad light, when it's entirely plausible that both sides of this coin are leaking to the press.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

I don't know who called who to leak what. What I'm saying is that Kravtov's agent is just as capable of leaking stories to the press to shine a more favorable light on his client. Perhaps he did regarding Drury dressing him down in the locker room in the latest Staple piece? We have no real way to know who is leaking what, is my entire point. This is being selectively applied to paint the organization in a bad light, when it's entirely plausible that both sides of this coin are leaking to the press.

In this instance I actually think we can.

It was leaked negative things about Kravtsov from a private meeting. There's absolutely no reason for Krav's camp to leak that, so the only reasonable solution left is that the org leaked it (or that the writers just made it up).

The other instance you mentioned happened at a training in front of the entire team + coaching staff etc. That's clearly a different scenario.

[Sod16]

One thing this organization needs to heed is that young Russian players are a little different from others, insofar as they view the KHL as an alternative, especially to playing in the AHL.  Sure, Kratsov is under contract and can't simply jump, but he can eventually find his way over there.  After suspending Andersson for a month or so, we loaned him to a Euro team, and I suspect the same will happen with Kratsov, as letting an asset sit on the shelf devalues it in time.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

4 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

One thing this organization needs to heed is that young Russian players are a little different from others, insofar as they view the KHL as an alternative, especially to playing in the AHL.  Sure, Kratsov is under contract and can't simply jump, but he can eventually find his way over there.  After suspending Andersson for a month or so, we loaned him to a Euro team, and I suspect the same will happen with Kratsov, as letting an asset sit on the shelf devalues it in time.

The problem is that his trade value has already diminished. They got a 2nd round pick for Andersson under similar circumstances, but it was really almost a high 3rd round pick as it was 60 overall.

Based on the idea that the return is going to be a 2nd round pick for the #9 pick in what was a reasonably strong draft; maybe there is more value in not budging & losing him to the KHL for nothing, to send a message to Kravtsov(any other future fragile prospects) that the path to the NHL is coming back and helping the organization increase his value?

[Sharpshooter]

I'm not so sure about the Drury and the 'soft Euros' thing, but since he's been GM, toughness and character have been his priority. Bringing in Reaves, Hunt, Blais, etc. Then you take a look at this past draft with Othmann, Berard and Cuylle and there seems to be a pattern. Having those types of players is nice, but a little more skill would also be good. lol That's what sucks about losing Kravtsov, and it's a shame they're probably going to give away someone that could've contributed nicely. They can use as much skill as they can get to round out the offense more.

[Costa]

2 hours ago, Xander said:

Why does a 19-year old rookie get the benefit of the doubt but the 45 year old with a history of success, winning, and leadership (and former NYR captain) get slammed due to the tweets of one shitty reporter?

“I’m certainly not going to let it ruin my Christmas and I don’t think anyone here is going to let it ruin their break, either."
That's all you need to know about his time as a player on the Rangers and you don't think he has that attitude in the office??

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

You realize there's a nuanced difference between a reporter having well placed sources and the team leaking info on purpose. If that were the case, why would they leave the part in about Drury yelling at ... Wait, sorry now we're dramatizing it as "bullying" ... Kravtsov?

As far as this storyline being pushed about the Rangers not liking Euros...I dunno...tough sell there when the proof points go back 20 years of management. I haven't heard Lundqvist, Zibenejad, Buch, Panarin, Chytil, Lundkvist, etc complain about the way they've been treated. 

Like if the Rangers hate Euros and Russians, why do they keep picking them with high picks?

Drury hasn't yet.  5 North Americans in the first 4 rounds.  We'll wait and see how he drafts next year. 

[josh]

13 hours ago, Bugg said:

At the point, simply let's see what happens. 

Not everything has a grand overarching theory to it. Dolan is a jerk, but he owns the team. And Drury was getting this job, if not now, someday soon. Gorton and Davidson did preside over some bad things, and their supposed patience with a team including  Panarin, Zib,. Fox , Igor and two of the top 3 picks in 2 drafts does look a bit misplaced. Add in paying a pile of cash to D'Angelo to coach kids in south Jersey last season rather being here, tool he may be, was very dumb. 

Either they figure out a way to make Kravstov work here, or they trade him. The rest is details. And you would hope everyone involved will learn something. 

If getting yelled out by someone in authority in in entry level job, be it as a pro hockey player or a teacher or a fireman or a dishwasher,  is now bullying, what the fuck. Soft bitches. 

 

 

I think it’s too late to “wait and see”. 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

Not familiar with the author here, but seems like a well reasoned analysis of the situation for anyone that can take their "Kravtsov is a whiny bitch that shouldn't be coddled" ear muffs off for a moment.

Quote

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2021/10/20/22735727/rangers-kravtsov-andersson-drury-need-for-change-of-approach

 

Quote

With all of this in mind, one can still find blame on the player’s side. I.e., his conditioning might not have been up to par, his work ethic might have left a lot to be desired, etc. But even then, it’s still incumbent on the Rangers to A) do their homework ahead of making a draft choice like this, B) tailor their communication and development efforts to the needs of this player, and C) exhaust all possibilities for steering their promising young prospect back on track when there are signs of trouble, instead of adding fuel to the fire and further damaging the relationship.

 

[Jdog99]

You can like or dislike Drury's style, personnel decisions etc...but ultimately the actual results on the ice after 2-3 years will be the initial measuring stick. If its true that he was never big on the Kravtsov pick, than he's potentially  dealing with leftover issues from the last regime - so he has the leeway to let his own vision play out.

Secondly, any narrative you hear directly from a horses mouth is going to be somewhat biased one way or the other - all the more so when its secondhand from various reporting. Which is why ultimately only the overall organization's results will tell the story in the long term.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

The problem is that his trade value has already diminished. They got a 2nd round pick for Andersson under similar circumstances, but it was really almost a high 3rd round pick as it was 60 overall.

Based on the idea that the return is going to be a 2nd round pick for the #9 pick in what was a reasonably strong draft; maybe there is more value in not budging & losing him to the KHL for nothing, to send a message to Kravtsov(any other future fragile prospects) that the path to the NHL is coming back and helping the organization increase his value?

Lots of people already saw Lias was just not very good before we traded him. We can still sell Kravtsov's talent.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

I'm not so sure about the Drury and the 'soft Euros' thing, but since he's been GM, toughness and character have been his priority. Bringing in Reaves, Hunt, Blais, etc. Then you take a look at this past draft with Othmann, Berard and Cuylle and there seems to be a pattern. Having those types of players is nice, but a little more skill would also be good. lol That's what sucks about losing Kravtsov, and it's a shame they're probably going to give away someone that could've contributed nicely. They can use as much skill as they can get to round out the offense more.

He's been GM for 5 minutes and according to most, all he did was carry out the plans Gorton and JD already had.

I mean, look at the team...Zib, Panarin, Strome, Kakko, Chytil....Krav....You had the skill, it only makes sense that you draft the grit now, or overpay for it in UFA.