Rangers Give Kravtsov Permission to Seek Trade; Loaned to KHL

[Kevin]

26 minutes ago, Pete said:

Do you seriously think this is the first time a GM undressed players who were underperforming, had bad attitude, and are selfish?

Please tell me the appropriate response, given that 1:1 conversations were already had, numerous times? And this was after he quit for Russia and came back?

This sounds like frustration on both sides but ultimately it's on the player to do what management asks or find a new job. But you don't just stop showing up to work while you look for your new job.

Is it safe to say that there was poor communication now?  He "quit" as a 19 year-old kid in a foreign country that actually had this exact clause in his contract for this exact reason.  Drury sounds like he didn't like the fact that he used the clause to opt to play in the KHL.  If that's the case, don't include those types of things in contracts.  

 

Laying down all the little pieces in this saga, I can't see how no blame falls on the Rangers.  You want to say it's mostly Kravtsov's fault; I'm good with that.  But the Rangers definitely could have mitigated some of this damage with better communication.  

[Drew a Penalty]

5 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Is it safe to say that there was poor communication now?  He "quit" as a 19 year-old kid in a foreign country that actually had this exact clause in his contract for this exact reason.  Drury sounds like he didn't like the fact that he used the clause to opt to play in the KHL.  If that's the case, don't include those types of things in contracts.  

 

Laying down all the little pieces in this saga, I can't see how no blame falls on the Rangers.  You want to say it's mostly Kravtsov's fault; I'm good with that.  But the Rangers definitely could have mitigated some of this damage with better communication.  

Drury probably took issue with the fact that Kravtsov waited until several games into the Wolfpack season to exercise his European assignment clause. He accepted the assignment to Hartford and bailed when it wasn't to his liking. He could've always gone straight back to Russia.

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

Drury's job is to put these guys in positions to succeed( and I am not saying not gift top NHL minutes); what Staple laid out does not seem like there is a track record of that with this player(or Andersson as the article implies).

Yes and that is a contract between the player and the team. We will give you this chance if you work hard and do as asked, which Kravtsov (and Andersson) didn't. 

[Pete]

25 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Is it safe to say that there was poor communication now?  He "quit" as a 19 year-old kid in a foreign country that actually had this exact clause in his contract for this exact reason.  Drury sounds like he didn't like the fact that he used the clause to opt to play in the KHL.  If that's the case, don't include those types of things in contracts.  

 

Laying down all the little pieces in this saga, I can't see how no blame falls on the Rangers.  You want to say it's mostly Kravtsov's fault; I'm good with that.  But the Rangers definitely could have mitigated some of this damage with better communication.  

Drury wasn't the GM that gave the out clause...

The Rangers did make a mistake, they never should have drafted him. 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

20 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

Drury probably took issue with the fact that Kravtsov waited until several games into the Wolfpack season to exercise his European assignment clause. He accepted the assignment to Hartford and bailed when it wasn't to his liking. He could've always gone straight back to Russia.

To Kevin's point though, isn't that the point of the clause? It's to give younger foreign players the option to "go home" if they are not happy with the plan of action for their development after giving it a try? 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yes and that is a contract between the player and the team. We will give you this chance if you work hard and do as asked, which Kravtsov (and Andersson) didn't. 

We are debating over minutia from hearsay at this point. Everyone seems to agree that Kravtsov is fragile and entitled; and it sounds like Drury's lack of management experience contributed greatly to the problem. We can agree on that. Right?

Your other post states the real mistake which was drafting Kravtsov in the first place by going off the board for him exactly like they did on Andersson. To think that Wahlstrom, Dobson, Farabee, and Bouchard were all available much more projected to go in this spot, shows another complete failure of drafting and development. 

[Drew a Penalty]

15 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

To Kevin's point though, isn't that the point of the clause? It's to give younger foreign players the option to "go home" if they are not happy with the plan of action for their development after giving it a try? 

Sure, but there's a way to exercise that clause that doesn't give the impression that you're "quitting on your team."

[Phil]

Drury doesn't have a lack of management experience — he's been in front office management and has been a GM or AGM for like the last decade. His managerial style is what you have issue with. Just to be clear.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

2 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

Sure, but there's a way to exercise that clause that doesn't give the impression that you're "quitting on your team."

I don't buy that; then write the clause that the player has the option to leave when assigned or that they have to stay the course. You cannot fault a player for exercising an option that the team wrote into his contract(even though it was kind of a bitch move). 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

Drury doesn't have a lack of management experience — he's been in front office management and has been a GM or AGM for like the last decade. His managerial style is what you have issue with. Just to be clear.

Agree on that nuance on the way that I worded it.

[Phil]

I heavily fault Kravtsov more than the Rangers here, but reading Staple's piece, I took issue with some of his tactics, too — namely dressing him down in front of the entire team. I just don't think that's effective management. You take that player aside. The same as you would someone in your office. Embarrassing them in front of their coworkers isn't something a GM should be doing. Let the players do that, if it needs to be done.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

I heavily fault Kravtsov more than the Rangers here, but reading Staple's piece, I took issue with some of his tactics, too — namely dressing him down in front of the entire team. I just don't think that's effective management. You take that player aside. The same as you would someone in your office. Embarrassing them in front of their coworkers isn't something a GM should be doing. Let the players do that, if it needs to be done.

Agree 100%

[Pete]

30 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

We are debating over minutia from hearsay at this point. Everyone seems to agree that Kravtsov is fragile and entitled; and it sounds like Drury's lack of management experience contributed greatly to the problem. We can agree on that. Right?

Your other post states the real mistake which was drafting Kravtsov in the first place by going off the board for him exactly like they did on Andersson. To think that Wahlstrom, Dobson, Farabee, and Bouchard were all available much more projected to go in this spot, shows another complete failure of drafting and development. 

Agree to the point not so much that Krav was off the board, but to be honest taking Russians so high has never worked out for us. You're either waiting 6 years like Kaprizov among others, or they come with an out clause, or whatever. Wahlstrom was then, and still is, the pick to make there even in hindsight.

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, Phil said:

I heavily fault Kravtsov more than the Rangers here, but reading Staple's piece, I took issue with some of his tactics, too — namely dressing him down in front of the entire team. I just don't think that's effective management. You take that player aside. The same as you would someone in your office. Embarrassing them in front of their coworkers isn't something a GM should be doing. Let the players do that, if it needs to be done.

They spoke to him privately multiple times...Need to understand the approach. This isn't something that came out of left field or someone right off the bat fucked with him. They coddled him—a lot. And they got tired of coddling.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

They spoke to him privately multiple times...Need to understand the approach. This isn't something that came out of left field or someone right off the bat fucked with him. They coddled him—a lot. And they got tired of coddling.

Oh, I don't disagree, I just think once it's to that point, you need to trade him, not berate him in front of other players, because how many of those other players are aware of these conversations you've had with the player one-on-one? To them, it might just look like bullying.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

Oh, I don't disagree, I just think once it's to that point, you need to trade him, not berate him in front of other players, because how many of those other players are aware of these conversations you've had with the player one-on-one? To them, it might just look like bullying.

Hard to tell unless we know what was said specifically. I mean watch any BTS NHL show and they will show yo coaches yelling at players. Keefe was screaming at a whole line in the lockerroom.

[Kevin]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Hard to tell unless we know what was said specifically. I mean watch any BTS NHL show and they will show yo coaches yelling at players. Keefe was screaming at a whole line in the lockerroom.

I think for a coach it's expected.  A GM, not so much.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I wanted them to draft Wahlstrom.  

[The Dude]

Drury looking  like:

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

I wanted them to draft Wahlstrom.  

Same. What hurts is we're going to see him be majorly successful...on the Islanders. lol

[Phil]

Quote

7. According to a couple of sources, Rangers’ coach Gerard Gallant personally called Vitali Kravtsov to ask the forward to consider returning. Kravtsov is in Russia, but several teams say they’ve been told he wants to play in the NHL, not stay overseas. He went home to find a comfortable spot to skate and be ready. Getting him to come back to New York will take some serious convincing, as it’s not his preference. He’d like a fresh start. New York is asking a high price for the 2018 first-rounder, but there’s legitimate interest. It’s a poker game.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/32-thoughts-nhl-create-salary-cap-exceptions/

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Agree to the point not so much that Krav was off the board, but to be honest taking Russians so high has never worked out for us. You're either waiting 6 years like Kaprizov among others, or they come with an out clause, or whatever. Wahlstrom was then, and still is, the pick to make there even in hindsight.

When I say off the board, my services had him going 13-20, almost exactly where Andersson was projected the year before(hence the reference). It was nowhere near as much of a reach as say McIlrath was but they should have played it safer and taken a Wahlstrom whom I think was most fan's preference here. 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

37 minutes ago, Phil said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/32-thoughts-nhl-create-salary-cap-exceptions/

Um. That is not going to work as him getting a "fresh start" involves Rangers settling for lesser return in a trade.

Long Live the King cited the Drouin Tampa/Montreal trade as a comparable situation of the organization getting value back for a prospect, with a strained relationship with the organization. Kravtsov needs to be part of the solution if he wants his fresh start; if he is unable to comprehend that idea, let him rot over there until he does get it. It is already a sunk cost at this point.

 

[Phil]

I mean, the simplest solution, at least to me, is to come back, report, rip it up, probably get called up right away, and then get pumped and dumped — play him on the top line. Get him a buncha goals in a handful of games and flip his ass.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

I mean, the simplest solution, at least to me, is to come back, report, rip it up, probably get called up right away, and then get pumped and dumped — play him on the top line. Get him a buncha goals in a handful of games and flip his ass.

I’m hoping for exactly this scenario. He doesn’t want to be here? Fine. Prove your worth so at least we get something valuable back.