jsm7302 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Scott said: Sorry boys but this smells of Othmann and a first. Which imo is too much. Pass. A less prominent prospect and I'm still in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 26 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: This isn't true, but I should have done more legwork here. More than half of it is from the '21-'22 season when Crosby missed 13 games. Prior to that, Crosby missed 28 games in '19-'20 and that's the last substantial amount of time Guentzel had away from Crosby. Different story. However, and it's a big however, if you dig deeper, he just played with another HOF center in Malkin during that stint lol. This guy has been attached to an HOF center basically his whole career. It's a legitimate question how he does with Zibanejad, who by all accounts is not an HOF center. It wasn't more than half. He played just over 100 of the 400 minutes with Jeff Carter. All your saying is Guentzel works with good skill players. As much as you don't want to admit it Zib is good. Zib is averaging a career high in primary assists per 60, but sure don't put another 40 goal scorer on his line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Long live the King said: It wasn't more than half. He played just over 100 of the 400 minutes with Jeff Carter. All your saying is Guentzel works with good skill players. As much as you don't want to admit it Zib is good. Zib is averaging a career high in primary assists per 60, but sure don't put another 40 goal scorer on his line. 246 minutes is more than half of 426 (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=PIT&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05-01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8477404&p2=8471675&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0) The fact remains you don't know that Guentzel is a 35-40 goal guy away from Crosby....or Malkin. I'm not touching a comparison of Zibanejad at 5v5 to those guys. Believe what you want on that one. Hard stop for me. Edited March 7 by BrooksBurner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Not good skill players, HOF skill players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: 246 minutes is more than half of 426 (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=PIT&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05-01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8477404&p2=8471675&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0) The fact remains you don't know that Guentzel is a 35-40 goal guy away from Crosby....or Malkin. I'm not touching a comparison of Zibanejad at 5v5 to those guys. Believe what you want on that one. Hard stop for me. What I will say about Guentzel is that he’s not a skillhound who will create most of his chances of the rush. He’s a guy who has made a living out of cleaning up the garbage right in front of the net. Even with his size disadvantage, he always seems to be able to score goals from in close. And yeah, sure. There is no downside from playing with a generational superstar like Crosby. And he definitely does help inflate the numbers. But again, this guy is more of a vulture in front than someone that needs to be spoonfed chances in the middle of the ice to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Just now, RichieNextel305 said: What I will say about Guentzel is that he’s not a skillhound who will create most of his chances of the rush. He’s a guy who has made a living out of cleaning up the garbage right in front of the net. Even with his size disadvantage, he always seems to be able to score goals from in close. And yeah, sure. There is no downside from playing with a generational superstar like Crosby. And he definitely does help inflate the numbers. But again, this guy is more of a vulture in front than someone that needs to be spoonfed chances in the middle of the ice to produce. Ok but then it could also be said that teams are so focused on Crosby and forget about Guentzel, giving him more time infront of the net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Fine you talked me into it, let's trade for Crosby 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 23 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: 246 minutes is more than half of 426 (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=PIT&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05-01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8477404&p2=8471675&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0) The fact remains you don't know that Guentzel is a 35-40 goal guy away from Crosby....or Malkin. I'm not touching a comparison of Zibanejad at 5v5 to those guys. Believe what you want on that one. Hard stop for me. That's 246 minutes over 76 games. Again that counts random line change time. The only significant time on another actual line was about 100 minutes with Jeff Carter. https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?select=F&forward=PIT%3A4386%3AJAKE%3AGUENTZEL&games=2021-2022%3AR%3A99&period=ALL&situation=EV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 (edited) To be honest, and I hate doing it, but have to agree with Brooksie here. I think we’re all in the same boat or close to it when we say we wanna see an improvement at that wing position but we are a bit afraid of what the price is for some of these guys. It’s a tricky spot. Edited March 7 by RichieNextel305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, Long live the King said: That's 246 minutes over 76 games. Again that counts random line change time. The only significant time on another actual line was about 100 minutes with Jeff Carter. https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?select=F&forward=PIT%3A4386%3AJAKE%3AGUENTZEL&games=2021-2022%3AR%3A99&period=ALL&situation=EV Guentzel played over 200 minutes in the 13 games that Crosby missed in '21-'22. It wasn't made up of line changes. It's moot anyway. It's a small sample size in the big picture, which means it's a legitimate question what his performance would look like away from one of the best players to ever play the game. I don't even know why you're choosing to die on this hill that you know how he'd perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 9 hours ago, BrooksBurner said: It's a small sample size in the big picture, which means it's a legitimate question what his performance would look like away from one of the best players to ever play the game. I don't even know why you're choosing to die on this hill that you know how he'd perform. Agreed, been talking to some other friends about it and there is a legitimate concern. It would be naive to expect the same production when you also factor in this is a guy who played his whole career on one team. Look how long it took Trocheck to acclimate, and he was traded before. Now if you get the production, that's great. But it shouldn't be expected. Now add in the fact that you probably don't want to pay the acquisition cost if you can't extend and you're probably looking in the range of 8 to 9 million a year for 8 years. I have no interest in that contract for a guy who might be a 25/25 guy at the end of the day. I could see why he's coveted but I also see reasons to stay away. Go get Buch. Edited March 7 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 By the way, FWIW, I do not get or agree with Brooks saying if he decide to dump our assets that we should go for Chychrun. He actually offered up Kakko. That would diminish our forwards even further, with no immediate answer on the horizon (well, for this season). I don’t know what he was smoking when he wrote it, but yeah. No, Larry. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 (edited) Rumors swirling that Carolina may be the favorites for Guentzel. Obviously would be less than ideal. Edited March 7 by RichieNextel305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphinity 2.0 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 4 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said: Rumors swirling that Carolina may be the favorites for Guentzel. Obviously would be less than ideal. God he'd fit perfect there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 4 minutes ago, Morphinity 2.0 said: God he'd fit perfect there. Yup. Dude's genetically engineered to play for Brind'Amour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) I think he's gotta go big here. The window isn't getting any bigger in fact I would say it's closing quicker than anticipated based on Igor and Zib not having the years they were expected to have yet were still a serious contender assuming we get a big piece at RW. I think he's gotta go big here if the cost stings that's part of it. Otherwise it's like being half pregnant and knowing yeah we may have a shot but with much much longer odds. Brooks pivoting the path forward to dealing big pieces for a defensemen makes no sense to me whatsoever. Drury's gotta deal those pieces to fill the biggest hole we've had all season. And if it's a guy with another year that's a bigger win. Buch imo would be head and shoulders better than Vatrano. Edited March 7 by Scott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I think less is more here. All we need is a player that can get in on a forecheck, shoot and create chances for that 1st line. If Zibby starts playing like the Zibby we know, we're all set. Kredier is gonna Kreider...just get them a little speed, and a little scoring touch up there and we're off! If Vatrano is too expensive, go with Duclair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 28 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said: By the way, FWIW, I do not get or agree with Brooks saying if he decide to dump our assets that we should go for Chychrun. He actually offered up Kakko. That would diminish our forwards even further, with no immediate answer on the horizon (well, for this season). I don’t know what he was smoking when he wrote it, but yeah. No, Larry. No. Brooks is nearly 75. So there’s that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I think less is more here. All we need is a player that can get in on a forecheck, shoot and create chances for that 1st line. If Zibby starts playing like the Zibby we know, we're all set. Kredier is gonna Kreider...just get them a little speed, and a little scoring touch up there and we're off! If Vatrano is too expensive, go with Duclair. The price that Anaheim was asking for Henrique and Vatrano was 1st+Kakko. They ended up moving Henrique and Carrick for 1st and 5th. I have to imagine that Vatrano would be pretty pricey, and when you have Guentzel and Toffoli and Buchnevich and Zucker and Duclair out there - guys who aren't just feasting on PP time and playing acceptable but unimpressive 5v5....I don't think paying the premium for Vatrano makes sense here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, LindG1000 said: The price that Anaheim was asking for Henrique and Vatrano was 1st+Kakko. They ended up moving Henrique and Carrick for 1st and 5th. I have to imagine that Vatrano would be pretty pricey, and when you have Guentzel and Toffoli and Buchnevich and Zucker and Duclair out there - guys who aren't just feasting on PP time and playing acceptable but unimpressive 5v5....I don't think paying the premium for Vatrano makes sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, RangersIn7 said: Brooks is nearly 75. So there’s that. I have more hockey wisdom in the dead skin cells I scrape off the corns on my feet than you’ve ever had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said: I have more hockey wisdom in the dead skin cells I scrape off the corns on my feet than you’ve ever had Don’t lash out at me because of your wangular softitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) My biggest issue with Guentzel is that I'm really not interested in rooting for him. Not even slightly. I'll be on the haters wagon on day 1. Edited March 7 by Dunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigueGabriel Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) Does not mention NYR an hour ago. Interest fading? Edited March 7 by RodrigueGabriel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, RodrigueGabriel said: Does not mention NYR an hour ago. Interest fading? I think it's too rich for us, RG. Drury ain't trading Kakko. If he was, I think we'd have had Vatrano already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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