Mercogliano 8 Early Trade Deadline Targets for Rangers

[Gravesy]

16 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Vince mentions, as others have, the bad blood between the Rangers and Montreal front offices, thus making a deal for Monahan unlikely.

Is this really a thing? Genuine question. 

I could see it if there's a situation where the Rangers and another team have more or less the same offer on the table, and Gorton chooses not to do business with the Rangers. But if the Rangers have the best offer surely he has to take it? He's GM'ing that team on behalf of owners and a team president. Surely he can't refuse to take the best offer on the table on the grounds that "they were mean to me". 

[RichieNextel305]

2 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

Is this really a thing? Genuine question. 

I could see it if there's a situation where the Rangers and another team have more or less the same offer on the table, and Gorton chooses not to do business with the Rangers. But if the Rangers have the best offer surely he has to take it? He's GM'ing that team on behalf of owners and a team president. Surely he can't refuse to take the best offer on the table on the grounds that "they were mean to me". 

According to people like Friedman and Mercogliano, it is. There’s some lingering bad blood between Gorton and the Rangers. And for a player like Monahan, who is going to see his market grow by leaps and bounds because of his pending UFA status and relatively small cap hit and likely large market, I’m imagining that he isn’t gonna be a player that the Rangers are going to really look at all too much because the cost is likely going to be excessive.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

According to people like Friedman and Mercogliano, it is. There’s some lingering bad blood between Gorton and the Rangers. And for a player like Monahan, who is going to see his market grow by leaps and bounds because of his pending UFA status and relatively small cap hit and likely large market, I’m imagining that he isn’t gonna be a player that the Rangers are going to really look at all too much because the cost is likely going to be excessive.

I feel like anybody who's really looking into his numbers is not going to send over a haul for him.

 

For example, half his points are on the power play, he wasn't going to get power playtime here.

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel like Lindholm might be available for less than what people think. Calgary has no leverage because if he was going to resign there, it would have happened already. He's currently pacing 56 points. Some would say he's on a crap Calgary team, and others would say there's no telling how he fits on a different team in a different role. He might continue to be a 55 point player for his next team.

 

As a pending UFA, the amount teams are willing to sacrifice for him in trade should be completely divested from what his price point might be on the UFA market.

 

Somebody might be willing to give him seven or eight million a year, but that doesn't mean a team trading for him right now should give up a ton of assets because right now he's a 55-point player. 

 

Tyler Bertuzzi went for a first round pick that was protected in next year's draft, as well as a fourth. That might be similar to what a team would have to give up for Elias. 

[RangersIn7]

48 minutes ago, Pete said:

I feel like anybody who's really looking into his numbers is not going to send over a haul for him.

 

For example, half his points are on the power play, he wasn't going to get power playtime here.

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel like Lindholm might be available for less than what people think. Calgary has no leverage because if he was going to resign there, it would have happened already. He's currently pacing 56 points. Some would say he's on a crap Calgary team, and others would say there's no telling how he fits on a different team in a different role. He might continue to be a 55 point player for his next team.

 

As a pending UFA, the amount teams are willing to sacrifice for him in trade should be completely divested from what his price point might be on the UFA market.

 

Somebody might be willing to give him seven or eight million a year, but that doesn't mean a team trading for him right now should give up a ton of assets because right now he's a 55-point player. 

 

Tyler Bertuzzi went for a first round pick that was protected in next year's draft, as well as a fourth. That might be similar to what a team would have to give up for Elias. 

I’d be ok with Monahan, but I think then that possibly creates a situation where you might want to bump Trochek down, and put Monahan with Panarin and LaFreniere. Given the style of player that Monahan is, it might make the most sense, and I’m not so sure how keen Laviolette would be on that.

 

If they were to get Lindholm, you then have a player that slots in as your 3C way better than Monahan and it gives you some flex if you want to swap him and Trochek for whatever reason.

 
As for price, who knows.

 

Conceivably though they do have the space now with Chytil being done for the season, to get Lindholm and a nice RW for the top-6 as well.

The center market is pretty lean though.

But there’s no shortage of RW’s they could get that would be an upgrade and conceivably help. 

[4EverRangerFrank]

And this is why I come to BSBH - the convo in this thread alone is indicative of the high hockey IQ of this board. Love it guys. I learn something every time I login.

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I feel like anybody who's really looking into his numbers is not going to send over a haul for him.

 

For example, half his points are on the power play, he wasn't going to get power playtime here.

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel like Lindholm might be available for less than what people think. Calgary has no leverage because if he was going to resign there, it would have happened already. He's currently pacing 56 points. Some would say he's on a crap Calgary team, and others would say there's no telling how he fits on a different team in a different role. He might continue to be a 55 point player for his next team.

 

As a pending UFA, the amount teams are willing to sacrifice for him in trade should be completely divested from what his price point might be on the UFA market.

 

Somebody might be willing to give him seven or eight million a year, but that doesn't mean a team trading for him right now should give up a ton of assets because right now he's a 55-point player. 

 

Tyler Bertuzzi went for a first round pick that was protected in next year's draft, as well as a fourth. That might be similar to what a team would have to give up for Elias. 

 

There's just no chance on earth this happens. He's a year removed from 64 points in 80 games and two years from what wast he best line in the NHL at the time (Gaudreau, Tkachuk) when he had 42 goals.

 

He's the belle of the ball. Someone, no matter how stupid they are for doing it, is going to give up a truck load for him in the hopes of re-signing him.

[RangersIn7]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

There's just no chance on earth this happens. He's a year removed from 64 points in 80 games and two years from what wast he best line in the NHL at the time (Gaudreau, Tkachuk) when he had 42 goals.

 

He's the belle of the ball. Someone, no matter how stupid they are for doing it, is going to give up a truck load for him in the hopes of re-signing him.

Not to mention his 2-way play.

The year he scored 40+ he was, IIRC, runner-up for the Selke as well.

 

No idea what the price would be but as said, he’s the best player on the market at his position and they’re likely to want a lot. 

 

[Drew a Penalty]

Friedge mentions Henrique twice here. He makes a lot of sense as a lower-cost option especially to round out that checking line with Cuylle and Kakko. Sam Carrick can fill in that 4th line center role that Friedge also mentions that they're in the hunt for. Both are strong centers with jam.

 

Use a separate deal to get an under-the-radar winger like how they acquired Vatrano two years ago. Maybe that's Duclair. Might be someone even more under the radar.

 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

There's just no chance on earth this happens. He's a year removed from 64 points in 80 games and two years from what wast he best line in the NHL at the time (Gaudreau, Tkachuk) when he had 42 goals.

 

He's the belle of the ball. Someone, no matter how stupid they are for doing it, is going to give up a truck load for him in the hopes of re-signing him.

I disagree, so we'll see how it plays out. That best line in hockey obviously revolved around Tkachuk, since neither Gaudreau or Lindholm have been nearly as good without him.

 

Are you going to trade multiple firsts/picks/prospects for a guy who on most teams is going to be a 2 or 3C? Calgary has no leverage.

[Scott]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I feel like anybody who's really looking into his numbers is not going to send over a haul for him.

 

For example, half his points are on the power play, he wasn't going to get power playtime here.

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel like Lindholm might be available for less than what people think. Calgary has no leverage because if he was going to resign there, it would have happened already. He's currently pacing 56 points. Some would say he's on a crap Calgary team, and others would say there's no telling how he fits on a different team in a different role. He might continue to be a 55 point player for his next team.

 

 

Still approaching elite numbers.

[Phil]

40 minutes ago, Pete said:

I disagree, so we'll see how it plays out. That best line in hockey obviously revolved around Tkachuk, since neither Gaudreau or Lindholm have been nearly as good without him.

 

Are you going to trade multiple firsts/picks/prospects for a guy who on most teams is going to be a 2 or 3C? Calgary has no leverage.

 

Me? No. I just think someone is gonna pay big for him. You can basically use the Dubois trade as a framework.

 

Kings got him for a package of Vilardi (11th overall), Kupari (20th overall), Iafallo, and a 2nd-round pick.

Even if some of the shine is off, for the Rangers, that'd be something like the equivalent of Othmann, McConnel-Barker, Kakko, and a 2nd?

[Pete]

48 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Me? No. I just think someone is gonna pay big for him. You can basically use the Dubois trade as a framework.

 

Kings got him for a package of Vilardi (11th overall), Kupari (20th overall), Iafallo, and a 2nd-round pick.

Even if some of the shine is off, for the Rangers, that'd be something like the equivalent of Othmann, McConnel-Barker, Kakko, and a 2nd?

I don't know that I see Aho and Dubois as comparables.

 

It will all come down to if the team thinks they can sign him or if they sign him directly after the trade. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, jsrangers said:

Still approaching elite numbers.

I'm confused... 

[Phil]

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't know that I see Aho and Dubois as comparables.

 

It will all come down to if the team thinks they can sign him or if they sign him directly after the trade. 

 

Aho? I only say Dubois in the sense that I see Lindhom as the belle of the ball in a similar way that Dubois felt like one last year (even though he was traded in the summer). I mean, even Lars Eller went for a 2nd-round pick at the deadline. Lindholm isn't getting had for any kind of discount IMO.

[Valriera]

1 hour ago, jsrangers said:

Still approaching elite numbers.

The numbers are

 

2023-2024: 32 in 49

2022-2023: 64 in 80

2021-2022: 82 in 82

2020-2021: 47 in 56

2019-2020: 54 in 70

 

Lafreniere's numbers this year are about the same, 3 pts less, and his numbers this year and last year sit between a lafreniere and a kreider. I don't think that qualifies as approaching elite, I think it's approaching top line player. Panarin's numbers are elite. 

 

I think @Pete is on to something; everyone remembers his one good season where he was absolutely excellent but the numbers before and after are not close to that. Sure, someone might overpay, and that doesn't have to be us, but if the cost is really a first and a random then it does tip the scale in a direction. We're going to wind up spending a first this year anyway, why not here? 

 

But yes, if it winds up being the Dubois trade as a framework then I'm out. I don't think it will be. Dubois was 25 at the time, was an RFA, which guaranteed exclusive negotiating rights and lindholm is not (29).  So while I think the numbers are similar to me the extenuating circumstance is going to drive down the price. You probably remove one of the firsts from that package as a starting point.

 

First rounder, roster player, and a 2nd. 

 

To look at a comparable, Erik Staal to us is similar, two 2nds and a random prospect. When he was traded he had 33 in 63. Little less. Different era. Is it a first, a 2nd, and a random prospect? Idk, it's close for me. 

[Phil]

Lindholm isn't a 40-goal, point-per-game player. He's basically Vincent Trocheck. That isn't the point being made, though. The point is that he's the best quality center available at the deadline from a clear seller and they're not going to sell him for some discount. Even Lars Eller, a career third-line center, went for a 2nd-round pick last deadline. Lindholm is costing someone a first + a player and/or prospect.

[BrooksBurner]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Lindholm isn't a 40-goal, point-per-game player. He's basically Vincent Trocheck. That isn't the point being made, though. The point is that he's the best quality center available at the deadline from a clear seller and they're not going to sell him for some discount. Even Lars Eller, a career third-line center, went for a 2nd-round pick last deadline. Lindholm is costing someone a first + a player and/or prospect.

Yup. He’s the best available. It doesn’t really matter that everyone knows Calgary has to trade him. The leverage is teams making competing offers. A 1st or a blue chip prospect is basically a prereq to have a competitive offer. The team that gets him will be the team adding the most on top of that. And so what if his only great anomaly of a year came on a line with great players? It showed he can play with great players and he produced at a high clip, and teams wanting him might pair him with similarly great players.

[Flynn]

With the East being as wide open as it is, it makes for a sellers market. I'm sure there will be a couple "Holy shit" returns for guys.. 

[Scott]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I'm confused... 

You said Lindholm is looking at ~56 pts this year those are close to our 1OA as stated yesterday that's approaching elite.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Flynn said:

With the East being as wide open as it is, it makes for a sellers market. I'm sure there will be a couple "Holy shit" returns for guys.. 

 

Right. And center is a sellers market this year. It's Lindholm and then a whole pile of incredibly flawed consolation prizes as far as impending free agents and/or guys we know are getting moved.

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Aho? I only say Dubois in the sense that I see Lindhom as the belle of the ball in a similar way that Dubois felt like one last year (even though he was traded in the summer). I mean, even Lars Eller went for a 2nd-round pick at the deadline. Lindholm isn't getting had for any kind of discount IMO.

Brain cramp, confused him with the guy he got traded for. 

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, jsrangers said:

You said Lindholm is looking at ~56 pts this year those are close to our 1OA as stated yesterday that's approaching elite.

I don’t view Lindholm as elite.

 

But one could make the argument that a 55-60 point C who is Selke level good defensively is elite.

 

So… yeah.

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

I don’t view Lindholm as elite.

 

But one could make the argument that a 55-60 point C who is Selke level good defensively is elite.

 

So… yeah.

 

Lindholm is right at the point you would expect him to step down and his production is down.  Don't think he can be elite in that circumstance.

 

Eriksson Ek is right at the point you'd expect him to ascend into his prime for a few years.  Consistent top 10 Selke candidate and his scoring is on the ascent.  He's probably a better bet to be a good 2C with 1C possibilities over the next few seasons than Lindholm is.

[Pete]

8 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

Lindholm is right at the point you would expect him to step down and his production is down.  Don't think he can be elite in that circumstance.

 

Eriksson Ek is right at the point you'd expect him to ascend into his prime for a few years.  Consistent top 10 Selke candidate and his scoring is on the ascent.  He's probably a better bet to be a good 2C with 1C possibilities over the next few seasons than Lindholm is.

And that's why Minnesota is unlikely to move him. 

[RichieNextel305]

We had 2 reps present at the DET-OTT game. FWIW, we don’t play either team again until April. So, safe to say where there is smoke, theres fire?