It's Time to Talk About Mika Zibanejad

[BrooksBurner]

11 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Vesey has done very little since being elevated into that role. He actually got replaced in the Columbus game by Panarin but that could have been Lav trying to generate anything.  I don’t think the answer is on the roster unfortunately. Tarasenko fits the bill.

 

Lavi and Gallant both put Panarin with Kreider and Zibanejad frequently when they are/were trying to score goals. It's a small sample size, but the trio is shockingly effective at 5v5. As in, across the last two seasons, they have 11 GF and 0 GA with strong analytics suggesting they basically just dominate. My thought is that this has been shied away from as a set line as not to overload one line with the "best players", in combination with "can't have Panarin or Kreider on the RW", but if we accept Kreider and Zibanejad for what they are at 5v5, then it's not really overloading anymore is it? It's pairing the best playmaker on the team with the two best complimentary players on the team.

 

Since that won't happen, at least this year, find someone else. I like Tarasenko, but I don't think he's the best fit. KZ-Tarasenko wasn't actually that good last year.

[lefty9]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He's the kind of guy who gets his game picked apart till no end, regardless of production.

 

He's the guy who you don't realize you miss until he's gone. 

 

I remember when people thought Gomez was going to be an upgrade on Nylander. 

You probably right about this,I will miss him 

Never have criticize him ,he has been great since coming here 

But I have to say this season 5on5 hasnt been good  ,hope he snaps out of it 

Special teams he's been great ,4on 4 pp play,killing penalties

[Br4d]

50 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Zibanejad and Kreider are high quality, first line players at all strengths except for generating 5v5 offense. They are mid-6 complimentary players at 5v5. This isn't a new bucket to be put in for Kreider, but it is for Zibanejad. I'm pretty confident both will have their 5v5 production elevated if they get paired with a winger who can help generate offense.

 

Zibanejad needs to take a page out of Panarin's playbook and start actively looking for shots.  Panarin also needs to re-read that page at this point because his shot-taking and scoring has dropped some since the first half of the season.

[jsm7302]

20 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Zibanejad needs to take a page out of Panarin's playbook and start actively looking for shots.  Panarin also needs to re-read that page at this point because his shot-taking and scoring has dropped some since the first half of the season.

Time to bust out the clippers in the locker room.

[BrooksBurner]

43 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Zibanejad needs to take a page out of Panarin's playbook and start actively looking for shots.  Panarin also needs to re-read that page at this point because his shot-taking and scoring has dropped some since the first half of the season.

I mean maybe, but he has to create his own. Kreider isn’t winning awards as a setup man. Kreider is a premiere finisher, so Zib focuses on distributing since whoever gets put on their right isn’t doing it. That’s why I keep stressing to get that line someone who can create offense. I’m not worried about defense at all. KZ are very responsible players.

[The Dude]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

I mean maybe, but he has to create his own. Kreider isn’t winning awards as a setup man. Kreider is a premiere finisher, so Zib focuses on distributing since whoever gets put on their right isn’t doing it. That’s why I keep stressing to get that line someone who can create offense. I’m not worried about defense at all. KZ are very responsible players.

They should have tried Lafrenière up there and Wheeler with Panarin.  I mean,  all you really need to do is get open or to the side of the net when you're playing with Panarin. Wheeler was definitely capable of that. 

 

It's looking more and more like Vatrano is the answer to 20/93s woes at 5 on 5.  A guy that just shoots. 

[Sod16]

I'm looking forward to two or three years from now when Zib is a very reliable 3rd line center and power play specialist and we are not expecting more from him.

[Br4d]

25 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

I mean maybe, but he has to create his own. Kreider isn’t winning awards as a setup man. Kreider is a premiere finisher, so Zib focuses on distributing since whoever gets put on their right isn’t doing it. That’s why I keep stressing to get that line someone who can create offense. I’m not worried about defense at all. KZ are very responsible players.

 

I see Zibanejad and Fox pass up good shots almost every game.  Sometimes several times.

 

Both of them need to start thinking about shooting more often because giving up a shot in the slot for somebody else's opportunity outside the slot is just a wasted opportunity.

[Phil]

 

[Scott]

It's a really bad look for sure. I also don't know how you break up what's clearly your best line by taking pieces of it in hopes or maybe getting another one going. Especially this late in the season.  Hoping for a hail Mary that whoever they bring in has a horseshoe shoved up their ass and getting Kreider and DJ Mika going. Otherwise unless they can play Bread 30 mins plus a game double shifting him all the time. It's probably not going to end well 

[The Dude]

58 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Yeah. That and Miller now at 28 games without ANY goals is an issue. 

 

The reluctance of separating 20/93 and 79/8 is puzzling. It's been evident for months now that these combinations are not running on all cylinders.  

 

Teams ranking in the standings aside, the Rangers are a one line team that needs a jumpstart for a handful of its top players. 

 

The goalie  has returned to form. The top D man looks a lot better than he did a month ago. The 1 OA pick has picked up his slack and is contributing to a line that is carrying the team.  The 4th line is now formidable. 3rd D pairing isn't a liability. Everything else is questionable to the point of being unreliable. 

 

Laviolette has more work to do. Hopefully he's allowed to make the necessary changes and the players aren't running the asylum. There's no explanation for keeping 20/93 together this long. Same with 79/8. 

[Phil]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

Yeah. That and Miller now at 28 games without ANY goals is an issue. 

 

The reluctance of separating 20/93 and 79/8 is puzzling. It's been evident for months now that these combinations are not running on all cylinders.  

 

Teams ranking in the standings aside, the Rangers are a one line team that needs a jumpstart for a handful of its top players. 

 

The goalie  has returned to form. The top D man looks a lot better than he did a month ago. The 1 OA pick has picked up his slack and is contributing to a line that is carrying the team.  The 4th line is now formidable. 3rd D pairing isn't a liability. Everything else is questionable to the point of being unreliable. 

 

Laviolette has more work to do. Hopefully he's allowed to make the necessary changes and the players aren't running the asylum. There's no explanation for keeping 20/93 together this long. Same with 79/8. 

 

The reason there's no desire is that there's no promising alternative without robbing from the teams' most successful line (Bread line).

 

You're basically just asking to put Kreider on the third line and Cuylle on the first. Fine, I guess, but if I'm being honest, I'd expect the same results — nothing.

 

They are a one-line team because their first-line center is playing like the league's most expensive third-line center. Bad as Kreider is at 5v5, this isn't a him issue. It's a Zib issue. It's always been a Zib issue. Every Cup-winning team on earth does so using the same formula: stellar starting goalie, rock-solid 1D, and high-performing 1C. Fine tune to preference, but no matter how you adjust your dials, if your first-line center is going 30 fucking games without a 5v5 goal, you aren't winning shit.

[Br4d]

Maybe you move Panarin and Laf up to line 1 (really line 1 after that), put Kreider with Trocheck and Kakko on line 2.  Let everything else line up the way it is right now and see if Zibanejad prospers with 2 guys who can create chances around him.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Br4d said:

Maybe you move Panarin and Laf up to line 1 (really line 1 after that), put Kreider with Trocheck and Kakko on line 2.  Let everything else line up the way it is right now and see if Zibanejad prospers with 2 guys who can create chances around him.

 

Maybe, yeah.

 

I'm not saying no to it. I'm just saying, the way they're built, it's not like they're refusing an obvious answer. There isn't one. The answer is "whatever gets Zib contributing at 5v5 again."

[Br4d]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Maybe, yeah.

 

I'm not saying no to it. I'm just saying, the way they're built, it's not like they're refusing an obvious answer. There isn't one. The answer is "whatever gets Zib contributing at 5v5 again."

 If Zib doesn't contribute at 5v5 with Bread and Laf something is really wrong.

 

I think Kreider, Trocheck and Kakko would probably be productive 5v5 given what we've seen them do in other circumstances.

[RJWantsTheCup]

5 point division lead with 21 games left they aren’t doing line experiments at this point.  Us fans have to realize that.  There’s no reason to panic.  They have small tweaks to make.  A RW is coming.  Kakko is more than likely going back to the third line.  Brodzinski is more than likely the 3C.  Vesey is going back to 4th line. Miller and Trouba is the 2nd pair.  Might not make us happy who they get or don’t but  probably the only things changing.  Again they are one of the best teams in the league.  They are rolling with pretty much what they have been.  If they don’t win it all or go far in the playoffs that’s when they will look for more or bigger changes.  

[Br4d]

6 point divisional lead.

 

Also it is probably time for the Rangers to swap Zibanejad and Laf on power play 1 and 2.  The power play has been a problem lately not a strength.

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 If Zib doesn't contribute at 5v5 with Bread and Laf something is really wrong.

 

I think Kreider, Trocheck and Kakko would probably be productive 5v5 given what we've seen them do in other circumstances.

 

I mean, no disagreement. I'd try it. I'm just really skeptical that they have much on the roster to make this work. It's a hail mary-type of play because you're asking them to dismantle the line that's made them the second-best team in the league to fix a guy who's shown for 2–3 years now that he's a 5v5 black hole. It's scary.

[Br4d]

Zib is still very good defensively.  He'd fill a missing gap between Bread and Laf at the same time as benefiting from having them feeding him and to feed.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Zib is still very good defensively.  He'd fill a missing gap between Bread and Laf at the same time as benefiting from having them feeding him and to feed.

 

Defense is a missing gap between Bread and Laf? Not buying what you're selling. Not for a second. Trocheck is an engine on that line. I'm extremely wary of taking that line apart. I'm not cannibalizing the best thing about this team this season to try and fix one of the worst (at 5v5). Not until there are no other paths. Just get a RW and hope it works out better.

[RichieNextel305]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

Defense is a missing gap between Bread and Laf? Not buying what you're selling. Not for a second. Trocheck is an engine on that line. I'm extremely wary of taking that line apart. I'm not cannibalizing the best thing about this team this season to try and fix one of the worst (at 5v5).

I’m not robbing Peter to pay Paul. That Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere line is otherworldly. All 3 are having career years and their chemistry is through the roof. Even when opposing teams know that we’re a 1-line team, there’s very little being done to stop them. Every night, any of the 3 beat you.

 

I don’t know what the answer is with Zibanejad. Like I have said over and over, I do have little doubt he is going to go scorched Earth eventually. This is who he is: ice cold then red hot. He’ll go through long stretches of nothing and then he will pour in 450 goals in like a 10 game stretch. The inconsistency is brutal and you just hope the hot streak comes around playoff time.

 

I don’t know how or what will unlock him. Or who can be acquired in the next week that will. Again, it’s always been riding the rollercoaster of cold streak vs. hot streak with him. This year has been the most off year he’s had here since he has become the Zibanejad we know.

[Valriera]

The bread line has been consistently one of the best in the league all year. You don’t touch it. 
 

Mika makes 8m a year. He is a big boy. You drop his ice time to send the appropriate message until he figures it out. Start with the powerplay and go from there. Laf has earned the spot over him at this point anyway. 
 

Kreider is a different story. He’s paid like a pp specialist third line winger who pots goals. That’s what he’s doing. I think our expectations of him are skewed because of what we know he could do, and because we know he’d rather use his strength jumping out of pools rather than playing hockey. 
 

But Mika is paid and played like a first line center and he is playing like a third line center. The rangers look more dangerous with every other line on the ice. It’s a problem and it starts with him.

[BrooksBurner]

I agree with all of the line shuffling to see who can legitimately get Zibanejad going, but not Cuylle. Cuylle scores goals the same way Kreider does and he’s not as good at it as Kreider. Sounds the same, but worse.

 

I’ve also resorted to the fact that kind of line shuffling like we have talked about is not happening. There is no way the Panarin line gets broken up this late in the season, and that leaves KZ stapled together.

 

 

[fletch]

Typical team construction for forward lines:

1. Scoring line 1

2. Scoring line 2/better 2-way players for defense

3. Checking line/defensive stalwarts

4. Checking line/cyclers/physical punishers/leftover that didn't fit in the other 3 lines that get more minutes

 

The Rangers are winning, evolving toward

1a. Scoring line 1 (Panarin-Trocheck-Laf)

1b. Defensive line and PP-PK specialists (Kreider-Zib-Kakko/Vesey)

3a. Cuylle-Brodzinski-Vesey/Kakko (leftovers that don't fit)

3b. Edstrom-Goodrow-Rempe (Physical Punishers)

 

In the playoffs teams play with more intensity, more structure, and more strategy.  The regular season is about accumulating points to get a playoff spot, finish up the standings to get more home ice, figure out line combos, build team strategy and structure, and prepare for the playoffs.  The playoffs are about the matchup with a series opponent, who is hot/not (scoring, goaltending), who gets to play their style more often (home-ice/last line change helps), who gets puck luck, intensity/raising compete level, and execution. 

 

The reason why 2 scoring lines is important is historically teams with 1 scoring line can get negated by defense focus by the opponent - Colorado and Edmonton have had to decide about whether to put their elite players on the same line and challenging the opponent on stopping them, or spreading the talent between multiple scoring lines so the opponent can't focus on just stopping one line.  Back in the day the decision for Pittsburgh was whether to have Crosby and Malkin on the same line or split them up.

 

Recent trends (I'm thinking St Louis) is that you can win a Cup by rolling 3 or 4 forward lines with scoring threats and wear out your opponent; elite talent helps but isn't necessary.  Instead of giving 2 scoring lines a majority of the ice time, with checking line for defensive zone face-offs and situationally, and fourth line largely benched, with occasional opportunities to stir things up physically and jolt some energy into the team.

 

So my concerns for the Rangers for the playoffs:

1. Average or below average goaltending (Shesterkin has been playing elite lately, but has been pedestrian for most of the year.  If Igor has a bad game or two in the playoffs, how patient are you before Quick becomes an option, and Laviolette has difficult decisions about who to start).

2. Defensive zone lapses - sloppy puckhandling, bad turnovers, Igor straying from the net and being out of position when the opposition gets the puck, failure to mark or physically body opponents, losing battles near the net.

3. Inadequate backchecking - forwards getting caught too low in the opponent's zone, getting beat back to the defensive zone, bad line changes, all leading to odd-man rushes.

4. Kreider/Zib/Panarin - how much can they elevate their game from regular season to post-season intensity.

5. Young players - how much can they elevate their game from regular season to post-season intensity.

6. Scoring production from other lines other than (Panarin-Trocheck-Laf) - assuming opponents focus on neutralizing this line, what other players/lines are going to score.

7. Will the Rangers play direct hockey, firing the puck on net with screens - or will they button-hook, fling cross-ice passes, and overpass rather than shooting?

 

I'm assuming that the trade line will be tinkering rather than a major acquisition based on our salary cap situation and the team's recent run of success - if we'd lost 10 of 11 than I'd assume Drury would feel more pressure to make a major move.

 

[RangersIn7]

59 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Zib is still very good defensively.  He'd fill a missing gap between Bread and Laf at the same time as benefiting from having them feeding him and to feed.

Zib played a lot against Matthews last night.

 

Matthews did not have a goal. He was -1.

Zib was +1