It's Time to Talk About Mika Zibanejad

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

It's probably time to re-visit this thread. I think Zib had a couple of good games at ES in the last few weeks, but it's not been enough. He's now got 1 ES point in his last 5 games, and he's back to being pretty ineffective.

 

He is currently pacing 28 ES points, which is a good 20 points less than the ~50 he's given you the last several years. Naturally, the first thing to look at is if anything changed around him, starting with linemates. Kreider is pacing 34 ES points, which is in line with what he's been giving you, so no change in production there. RW has been a revolving door the last few years since Buchnevich got traded. Last year was primarily Kakko/Vesey pre-trade deadline. This year it's Kakko/Wheeler/Brod. It's not really different.

 

The crux of the issue appears to be that Zibanejad is simply in a rut not playing like the line driver he's paid to be, and it's not about his linemates. He's just not all there. So what gives? Could this be the same thing we've seen happen to Shesterkin? Just became a dad right before the season started? It's understandable if he's lagging from that. We shouldn't pretend the off ice can't affect the on ice product. That means we need to just stick with it and keep giving him time to adjust to his new realty. Fortunately, the team started hot enough to buy time for that.

 

Weird. He started producing and went on a point scoring streak when Wheeler was the RW.

 

I'm sure it's just coincidence that he's back to being the Zib he was before that streak. It has nothing to do with Wheeler being a net front presence and open in the slots most of the time, when he was on that line. Wheeler is too slow and is always behind o.... Heyyy, maybe he wasn't. Maybe that worked? 

 

If they aren't going to separate 20 and 93, the only solution is to go back to the combination that got Zib going.  Pretend all you guys want.  Zib got his shit together when Wheeler was put on his line. 

[The Dude]

56 minutes ago, Valriera said:

I do think there are legs to the new parent argument. When it happened to me, I had plenty of physical energy but I was not mentally sharp for almost two years. When I look at Mika's game, he is getting chances and he doesn't look slow but he's lacking that killer edge. Missing the net. Flubbing one timers. Forcing passes to Kreider for no reason. His (and Kreider's, to be honest, but for different reasons) problems are all mental from what I can see. 

 

But before I jump to that conclusion, I do need to see what he does away from one or both of Kreider and Wheeler. These two players are playing absolutely terrible hockey right now, with Kreider's only saving grace that he's still doing alright on the PK. Kreider is not any more terrible than he typically is at even strength, and Wheeler is just lost out there. I think Kreider is an easy player to switch with someone down the lineup, because he's still going to get PP time and be effective there, but Wheeler I have no idea what to do with. He makes no money, and has potential upside to play on the top line unlike anyone else on that contract, but he's just not showing it. You could move Vesey but honestly that fourth line is playing excellent hockey and I'd be hesitant to toy with it. I think the best move is you swap Cuylle and Kreider and see what happens, and then you do more with Wheeler if nothing happens as a result. IDK, but I definitely do not place all the ES blame on Mika here - that whole line has been terrible and you really do need all three players working at even strength to be effective. 

Wheeler has been off that line for like 4-5 games now.  Brodzinski has been given that assignment.  Hence the drop in play from Zibanejad... since that move was made. 

 

Wheeler there got that combo going. The combination worked. The line was contributing at ES. I'm not saying Wheeler was a driving force.  I'm saying that line was fine and Zibanejad was playing better at that time. Not before.  Not after. During that time. 

 

Everyone likes to crap all over Wheeler and I just don't get it. Here he's getting blamed and he isn't even playing with the players anymore. 

[Ozzy]

10,000 pound elephant in the room:

 

Give Mika some Cuylle!

Edited December 11, 2023 by Ozzy

[Br4d]

How about the simplest move possible from the standpoint of getting MZ going: move Panarin to line 1 and put Kreider on line 2 with Trocheck and Laffy.  Give that a game or two to see if it is gelling and raising MZ and CK's ES play levels.

 

You get a couple of benefits from that, first Panarin and Zibanejad both get to play with a primary playmaker.  If you have Brodzinski with them he gets two guys looking to make a play.  If you get Wheeler there he gets to go to the front of the net.  Second, you give Kreider a couple of guys who will happily shoot with him camped in front and both of whom can spring him on breakaways and give-and-go with him on odd man rushes.

[jsm7302]

17 minutes ago, Br4d said:

How about the simplest move possible from the standpoint of getting MZ going: move Panarin to line 1 and put Kreider on line 2 with Trocheck and Laffy.  Give that a game or two to see if it is gelling and raising MZ and CK's ES play levels.

 

You get a couple of benefits from that, first Panarin and Zibanejad both get to play with a primary playmaker.  If you have Brodzinski with them he gets two guys looking to make a play.  If you get Wheeler there he gets to go to the front of the net.  Second, you give Kreider a couple of guys who will happily shoot with him camped in front and both of whom can spring him on breakaways and give-and-go with him on odd man rushes.

So hard to pull the trigger on changing that Bread line when they have been so successful but what you say holds water. Give it a shot!

[BrooksBurner]

54 minutes ago, Valriera said:

I do think there are legs to the new parent argument. When it happened to me, I had plenty of physical energy but I was not mentally sharp for almost two years. When I look at Mika's game, he is getting chances and he doesn't look slow but he's lacking that killer edge. Missing the net. Flubbing one timers. Forcing passes to Kreider for no reason. His (and Kreider's, to be honest, but for different reasons) problems are all mental from what I can see. 

 

But before I jump to that conclusion, I do need to see what he does away from one or both of Kreider and Wheeler. These two players are playing absolutely terrible hockey right now, with Kreider's only saving grace that he's still doing alright on the PK. Kreider is not any more terrible than he typically is at even strength, and Wheeler is just lost out there. I think Kreider is an easy player to switch with someone down the lineup, because he's still going to get PP time and be effective there, but Wheeler I have no idea what to do with. He makes no money, and has potential upside to play on the top line unlike anyone else on that contract, but he's just not showing it. You could move Vesey but honestly that fourth line is playing excellent hockey and I'd be hesitant to toy with it. I think the best move is you swap Cuylle and Kreider and see what happens, and then you do more with Wheeler if nothing happens as a result. IDK, but I definitely do not place all the ES blame on Mika here - that whole line has been terrible and you really do need all three players working at even strength to be effective. 

 

I would put the lion's share of the blame on Zibanejad, but even putting that conversation aside for a minute and going with the flow, these things are a tough sell to me:

 

- Cuylle will be a magic potion that unlocks Zibanejad.

- Kreider will be more effective at best or equally ineffective at worst, on the 3rd line with a...Nick Bonino centering him?

 

It's a hail mary to speed up fixing what plagues Zibanejad this year, and chances are it reduces Kreider's contributions. I don't think the team is at the levels of desperation required to take this approach.They've built a nice cushion that gives them the luxury of time, and really the previous few years overrides 25 games of lackluster ES production by Zibanejad.

[BrooksBurner]

35 minutes ago, Br4d said:

How about the simplest move possible from the standpoint of getting MZ going: move Panarin to line 1 and put Kreider on line 2 with Trocheck and Laffy.  Give that a game or two to see if it is gelling and raising MZ and CK's ES play levels.

 

You get a couple of benefits from that, first Panarin and Zibanejad both get to play with a primary playmaker.  If you have Brodzinski with them he gets two guys looking to make a play.  If you get Wheeler there he gets to go to the front of the net.  Second, you give Kreider a couple of guys who will happily shoot with him camped in front and both of whom can spring him on breakaways and give-and-go with him on odd man rushes.

 

I think it's even simpler. I think you move Vesey up to play with Kreider and Zibanejad. The sample size isn't huge, but that was an effective combination last year. I'd rather risk the 4th line chemistry than the chemistry on Panarin's line.

[Br4d]

Kreider - Zibanejad - Vesey

Panarin - Trocheck - Lafreniere

Cuylle - Brodzinski - Wheeler

Pitlick - Bonino -Goodrow

 

If CK and MZ are still struggling at even strength in a few games break them up.

[Ozzy]

11 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Kreider - Zibanejad - Vesey

Panarin - Trocheck - Lafreniere

Cuylle - Brodzinski - Wheeler

Pitlick - Bonino -Goodrow

 

If CK and MZ are still struggling at even strength in a few games break them up.

 

I like Vesey on that 4th line, Brad.  That line is working well, and they have some offense with him there.  Why not pump the kid (Cuylle) up to the first?  He's earned a shot at it, no?

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

 

I like Vesey on that 4th line, Brad.  That line is working well, and they have some offense with him there.  Why not pump the kid (Cuylle) up to the first?  He's earned a shot at it, no?

 

I have no problem just leaving line 4 alone.  They're the only line currently performing at or above expectations.

 

The question though is how do you get Zibanejad on track?

 

 

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I have no problem just leaving line 4 alone.  They're the only line currently performing at or above expectations.

 

The question though is how do you get Zibanejad on track?

 

 

The answer is easy. He's played with 4 RWs this season. Change his LW. 

[BrooksBurner]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

Kreider - Zibanejad - Vesey

Panarin - Trocheck - Lafreniere

Cuylle - Brodzinski - Wheeler

Pitlick - Bonino -Goodrow

 

If CK and MZ are still struggling at even strength in a few games break them up.

These are the lines I’m thinking.

[Ozzy]

15 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

I have no problem just leaving line 4 alone.  They're the only line currently performing at or above expectations.

 

The question though is how do you get Zibanejad on track?

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Pete said:

The answer is easy. He's played with 4 RWs this season. Change his LW. 

 

Yup...

Time to try Cuylle over there with him.  The kid's got game...and he's just as fast, if not more determined to play hard than Kreider.

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

 

 

Yup...

Time to try Cuylle over there with him.  The kid's got game...and he's just as fast, if not more determined to play hard than Kreider.

The problem with this shift though is that you wind up playing Kreider with Bonino and that seems like a low value play.

[Ozzy]

3 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The problem with this shift though is that you wind up playing Kreider with Bonino and that seems like a low value play.

 

I'm thinking we've tried 2 RW's already, and it hasn't really gotten much traction.  I think it'd be worth a shot giving Zibby a digger than can shoot and also establish a net-front presence in Cuylle.  I don't think Wheeler is the problem.  He's slow, but he can set up players pretty well still.

Bonino isn't a 3rd liner, but for now I think teams would have to respect Kreider being on that line, so it could even thin out the lines across an opposition, wearing them thin as a game progresses.

 

I may be over thinking that, but I think I'd try Cuylle at least for a few games just to see if it clicks.

[lefty9]

Taking Kreider out of the top six would be doing the opposing a favor 

[jsm7302]

Cuylle with Zib will be a worthwhile experiment.

[Ozzy]

Kreider is going to get his time with Zibby on the PP.  He does most of his damage there.  I can't really see how at lest trying Cuylle there would hurt.  The kid's been smart, and he works his ass off.  He's also a "finisher"...a shooter.  Wheeler and Zibby could both benefit from him being there.

 

He's earned a shot at the top line in my book.

[The Dude]

I just checked. Why are we talking about the guy with 11 points in his last 10 games? Are we worried about the +/-?  He hasn't been lights out, but he also isn't ice cold. 

 

If anything, it's time to talk about Kreider. 

[RangersIn7]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I just checked. Why are we talking about the guy with 11 points in his last 10 games? Are we worried about the +/-?  He hasn't been lights out, but he also isn't ice cold. 

 

If anything, it's time to talk about Kreider. 

Yeah.

Hes just fine.

Though im Not at all opposed to splitting him and Kreider.

That said… if they’re reluctant to do so right now, I get it.

Theyre missing 2 forwards from the top-9. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, lefty9 said:

Taking Kreider out of the top six would be doing the opposing a favor 

No it wouldn't. He does all his damage on the PP and gives you almost nothing at 5v5.

[Albatrosss]

send Kreider a message by demoting him.  Let him know that he hastn earned his coasting stripes yet

[lefty9]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

No it wouldn't. He does all his damage on the PP and gives you almost nothing at 5v5.

So who you replacing him with ,you take kreider  out and Zib be 

Playing with fourth liners ,that's a joke 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, lefty9 said:

So who you replacing him with ,you take kreider  out and Zib be 

Playing with fourth liners ,that's a joke 

Cuylle is a 4th liner? Vesey is outplaying Kreider at ES right now. 

[lefty9]

As of now a great fourth or a third