It's Time to Talk About Mika Zibanejad

[Long live the King]

5 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Never.  That's our hometown blinders.

 

What he's looked like in the past for long stretches was a top 5 Two-way Center.  That would put him in the top 25 or maybe 50 in the NHL overall.

 

 

 

It's you who has hate blinders on.  He's never had stretches he looks like a top 10 player?  What do you call 23 goals and 36 points in 22 games leading into the COVID shutdown?  20/21 stretch of 17 goals and 35 points in 23 games. 21/22 stretch of 15 goals and 32 points in 23 games.  Last year he had stretches of 10 goals and 18 points in 13 games, 7 goals and 21 points in 14 games.

 

We know he's capable of going on a dominant stretch, and it's happened every year.  It's gonna happen again.  He's not going to shoot 4.5% for the whole season.  20/21: "Long COVID made him forget how to shoot!"  3 goals and 9 points through 25 games, finished with 21 goals in the last 31.  He's gonna be fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But they should still trade Kreider and sign Nylander to play with Zib this summer.

[Ozzy]

10 minutes ago, Flynn said:

12-3-1 and your best all around forward has played like shit. 

 

He will flip the switch at some point.. And I'd rather have the Sahara dry spell in November.  

 

 

 

He hasn't exactly gone without points;  he's got 10 points in 16 games, which isn't terrible.  Albeit most are on the Power play.

 

The thing is, this is also his first season under Laviolette, who I'm sure has given Zibby other responsibilities that Grandpa did not.  @BrooksBurner made a solid point mentioning that Zibby is playing higher as the responsible forward for getting back on D, and shutting down opposing rushes with back pressure.

 

His job is also to score...which he will.

 

I'm letting the guy get adjusted to his new role under his new coach.  It's not like he's a winger, where he can just fly the zone, or linger back on D to pick up a defensefan who may not even see the puck.  He's the center, and that brings lots of defensive responsibilities, especially under a new coach who is teaching a new defensive structure....and it's working!  That 12-3-1 record isn't by accident.

 

I also think he's had opportunities to score, but he's shooting like shit right now.  He's hitting everything but net....kinda like a hockey version of Ricky Vaughn!!  LOL

 

Mika's the last guy on this roster to be concerned about.  It's not even Thanksgiving yet.  How about we give him a break?  The guy's earned at least that much, no?

[RJWantsTheCup]

Mika's career goal totals by month

October 33

November 28

December 33

January 43

February 44

March 63

April 22

May 4

[Albatrosss]

Kreider has to be one of the reason for Zib's suckage.  Kreider doesnt do anything offensively.  He just skates around and coughs up the puck whenever pressured.  Zibby is an island out there with essentially no support.  

 

And dont ask about Wheeler, who usually just starts to enter the offensive zone when Zib and Kreider are exiting the zone after Kreider turns the puck over. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, fletch said:

Small sample size of 16 games, every player has hot and cold stretches.  Full-stop.  Having said that:

We are making special efforts to jumpstart Wheeler by giving him time with Kreider and Zib and pretending that putting 3 aging vets on the same line is a good strategy.

We are helping Laf by putting him on a line with Panarin.

We are burying Kakko on a checking line with Bonino and Cuylle and pretending that is good for young player development.

Watch the difference in PP1 and PP2 units and observe how much of our offense is reliant on Panarin right now.

 

Try other combos, how about:

Panarin-Zib-Kakko

Kreider-Trocheck-Laf

Cuylle-Bonino-Wheeler

 

Emphasis of splitting the youth up with the vets.

 

The problem is the team is winning and Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere doesn't look like a line they should be fucking with.

 

Mix and match as you need, but law of averages is probably the right play here. I'd just move Kakko back with Kreider and Zib and hope more reps will eventually get everyone going. They had really good expected goal rates, as I understand it, albeit in like a ten-game sample stretch.

 

Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere

Kreider-Zib-Kakko

Cuylle-Bonino-Wheeler

4th

[Phil]

17 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Mika's career goal totals by month

October 33

November 28

December 33

January 43

February 44

March 63

April 22

May 4

 

Right. He tends to explode at the end of the season (March), but it's nonsense that he's a notorious slow-starter. He isn't.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

Right. He tends to explode at the end of the season (March), but it's nonsense that he's a notorious slow-starter. He isn't.

Except this says that he scores more after Thanksgiving than before, so yes he is often less productive out of the gate.

 

October 33

November 28

December 33

January 43

February 44

March 63

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

The problem is the team is winning and Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere doesn't look like a line they should be fucking with.

 

Mix and match as you need, but law of averages is probably the right play here. I'd just move Kakko back with Kreider and Zib and hope more reps will eventually get everyone going. They had really good expected goal rates, as I understand it, albeit in like a ten-game sample stretch.

 

Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere

Kreider-Zib-Kakko

Cuylle-Bonino-Wheeler

4th

I think it would be best for both players if Z and CK were split.

 

Cuylle Zib Kakko

Pan Tro Laf

Kreider Bonino Vesey

Pitlick Goody Wheeler

 

I've seen all I need to see of Wheeler in the top 9. He's done.

[Albatrosss]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

The problem is the team is winning and Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere doesn't look like a line they should be fucking with.

 

Mix and match as you need, but law of averages is probably the right play here. I'd just move Kakko back with Kreider and Zib and hope more reps will eventually get everyone going. They had really good expected goal rates, as I understand it, albeit in like a ten-game sample stretch.

 

Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere

Kreider-Zib-Kakko

Cuylle-Bonino-Wheeler

4th

Kakko with Zib and Kreider doesnt work.  Why would you try them again?  In fact, Kakko with anyone doesnt work.  I'd put Kreider and Kakko together with Bonino to be a primarily defensively oriented checking line

[BrooksBurner]

25 minutes ago, Albatrosss said:

Kreider has to be one of the reason for Zib's suckage.  Kreider doesnt do anything offensively.  He just skates around and coughs up the puck whenever pressured.  Zibby is an island out there with essentially no support.  

 

And dont ask about Wheeler, who usually just starts to enter the offensive zone when Zib and Kreider are exiting the zone after Kreider turns the puck over. 

[Albatrosss]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

You will see what i see.  soon!

[BrooksBurner]

19 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

The problem is the team is winning and Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere doesn't look like a line they should be fucking with.

 

Mix and match as you need, but law of averages is probably the right play here. I'd just move Kakko back with Kreider and Zib and hope more reps will eventually get everyone going. They had really good expected goal rates, as I understand it, albeit in like a ten-game sample stretch.

 

Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere

Kreider-Zib-Kakko

Cuylle-Bonino-Wheeler

4th

I agree 100% with these lines and the way they are ordered too.

 

Wheeler to the KZ line hasn’t promoted any real offensive boost, and has only made them worse defensively. I would also put Kakko back on that line at this stage and call it the most expensive, but also probably the most effective, shutdown line in hockey.

 

The Panarin line is clearly the 1st line.

 

When Chytil is back, I’d love to see him with Cuylle.

 

Maybe the only thing I’d think about changing is Vesey for Wheeler, but I’m actually intrigued by a Wheeler Chytil pairing.

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Albatrosss said:

You will see what i see.  soon!

How many drinks in do I start seeing it?

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

I agree 100% with these lines and the way they are ordered too.

 

Wheeler to the KZ line hasn’t promoted any real offensive boost, and has only made them worse defensively. I would also put Kakko back on that line at this stage and call it the most expensive, but also probably the most effective, shutdown line in hockey.

 

The Panarin line is clearly the 1st line.

 

When Chytil is back, I’d love to see him with Cuylle.

 

Maybe the only thing I’d think about changing is Vesey for Wheeler, but I’m actually intrigued by a Wheeler Chytil pairing.

you're intrigued by Wheeler? Wheeler?

 

 

[Albatrosss]

4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

How many drinks in do I start seeing it?

Not many.  Kreider's suckage is seen with a relatively sober eye

[Sharpshooter]

Some retirement communities would be intrigued by Wheeler.

[Duguay10]

1 hour ago, Albatrosss said:

Kreider has to be one of the reason for Zib's suckage.  Kreider doesnt do anything offensively.  He just skates around and coughs up the puck whenever pressured.  Zibby is an island out there with essentially no support.  

 

And dont ask about Wheeler, who usually just starts to enter the offensive zone when Zib and Kreider are exiting the zone after Kreider turns the puck over. 

Maybe we should just blow up this team. 3 of our top 6 are awful and should be moved. No way this team can make the playoffs as currently constructed 

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, Duguay10 said:

Maybe we should just blow up this team. 3 of our top 6 are awful and should be moved. No way this team can make the playoffs as currently constructed 

they will make playoffs but will you be happy with another first round exit?  

[fletch]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

The problem is the team is winning and Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere doesn't look like a line they should be fucking with.

 

Mix and match as you need, but law of averages is probably the right play here. I'd just move Kakko back with Kreider and Zib and hope more reps will eventually get everyone going. They had really good expected goal rates, as I understand it, albeit in like a ten-game sample stretch.

 

Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere

Kreider-Zib-Kakko

Cuylle-Bonino-Wheeler

4th

I'd agree this is an improvement because it gets Wheeler to have less TOI and gets Kakko on to a scoring line.

 

I disagree and think that Panarin-Trocheck-Player X will produce.  IMO Panarin and Trocheck are driving production on that line.  Panarin seems to be doing great even-strength, power play, whomever he is on the ice with. Trocheck is solid at both ends of the ice.  I'm fine with keeping Laf on this line for now because it's helping his production (and watching Laf on PP2 is painful right now).  But if the inevitable line shuffling happens in-game, I'm keeping Panarin-Trocheck together and trying a different RW.

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Albatrosss said:

you're intrigued by Wheeler? Wheeler?

 

 

Calm down. I’ve been shitting on Wheeler since like game 3. So slow.

 

Chytil is probably quicker on the forecheck and taking the puck deep than anyone on this team. He can win/maintain possesion enough with his size and strength to buy time for Wheeler’s slow ass to get in the zone.

 

I’d much prefer Kakko reunited with Chytil, but until there’s another RW option for the top 6 I don’t think it can happen.

[Br4d]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I think it would be best for both players if Z and CK were split.

 

Cuylle Zib Kakko

Pan Tro Laf

Kreider Bonino Vesey

Pitlick Goody Wheeler

 

I've seen all I need to see of Wheeler in the top 9. He's done.

 

That 4th line just blows chunks.  The current 4th line is maybe the most cohesive if not talented of the Rangers lines.

[Pete]

Just now, Br4d said:

 

That 4th line just blows chunks.  The current 4th line is maybe the most cohesive if not talented of the Rangers lines.

The current fourth line is Pitlick Goody and Vesey.

 

I wouldn't even care to scratch Wheeler at this point and play Brodz. But he can't be anywhere in the top nine and Vesey can be effective moved up. 

[Br4d]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

The current fourth line is Pitlick Goody and Vesey.

 

I wouldn't even care to scratch Wheeler at this point and play Brodz. But he can't be anywhere in the top nine and Vesey can be effective moved up. 

 

Wheeler may not fit in the top 9 but he absolutely does not fit on the checking line that Laviolette chooses to have on the ice in tight spots and in the defensive zone.

[Scott]

3 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

I agree that trading Zibanejad is not on the table. I don't know why that's been getting brought up except for shits and giggles, and EA Sports "what if" scenarios for fun. He's got an NMC until 2030 and if there's one guy who absolutely isn't going to want to leave NYC, it's him. We are also only 15 games into the season and the guy has been more productive than this for several years, so let's calm down. He deserves criticism, and maybe some adjusted expectations for who he is as a player, but it needs to be realistic. I think @Phil's post is being realistic.

 

The Bad:

 

We have been pretending Zibanejad is something he is not because he stacks points on the PP. I've said for a while now that he was a low end 1C at even strength, and a mid tier 1C with PP production included. What we've got right now is production regression across both facets of the game, and that is taking him out of the 1C conversation and into the 2C conversation.

 

The Good:

 

His line is still rarely getting scored on. This was a trend that started 3 seasons ago and gotten progressively better every year. Yes, even under GG! That lines defensive metrics are so good it's scary. It is basically a shutdown line for Laviolette. Maybe that's what he is commanding out of them, especially when the Panarin line is leaking goals against in exchange for the offense they are providing. I've also noticed Zibanejad hanging around higher in the OZ, and first man back to the DZ, than I am used to seeing, so I don't think the muted production is all on him.

 

As far as the "separate Kreider/Zib" discussion, Kreider has just as much weight into that line being a shutdown defensive line as Zib. They work extremely well together on that side of the coin, even if the offense hasn't been there. If you break that up, you lose that. I'm not sure them being a shut down line to this degree, in exchange for offensive, is necessarily a bad thing for two guys who make their living on the PP. I think you stick with them and look for the defense to eventually turn into some more offense. BTW, the line is marginally better offensively with Wheeler than Kakko, but more than marginally worse defensively with Wheeler instead of Kakko. The translation here is Wheeler stinks.

 

 

 

Wheeler and Kakko truly flat out stink. Neither helps at all, laugh all you want but Vesey is a guy who never stops and right now is a much better player than both Wheelsareoff and Krappo. What to make another change to that line do that.  I wouldn't touch the Panarin line unless it goes ice cold. Don't mess with the one line that's producing especially now that Laugh has found something alongside Artemi.

[Albatrosss]

45 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Calm down. I’ve been shitting on Wheeler since like game 3. So slow.

 

Chytil is probably quicker on the forecheck and taking the puck deep than anyone on this team. He can win/maintain possesion enough with his size and strength to buy time for Wheeler’s slow ass to get in the zone.

 

I’d much prefer Kakko reunited with Chytil, but until there’s another RW option for the top 6 I don’t think it can happen.

no, i will not calm down.  you have a hard on for wheeler and kreider and it makes me furious