Who Will Be the Next Coach?

[skunkman]

So now with Roy's team championship game being played can we get on with naming a coach?

 

Getting sick and tired of logging onto the post everyday and seeing nothing!

[jsm7302]

I want Roy here; like the Babcock redemption tour in Columbus. It would be fun. I love animated coaches. Not gum chewers like Tom Renney and AV.

[siddious]

43 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

I want Roy here; like the Babcock redemption tour in Columbus. It would be fun. I love animated coaches. Not gum chewers like Tom Renney and AV.

Don’t you ever hate on Tom renney in my presence. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

I want Roy here; like the Babcock redemption tour in Columbus. It would be fun. I love animated coaches. Not gum chewers like Tom Renney and AV.

 

 

Laviolette is animated.  Just sayin...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by The Dude

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Didn't the numbers suggest Trocheck-Panarin worked? 

 

The underlying numbers, to some degree, yeah, but real results still matter.

 

5v5: 51.27 xGF%, 47.69 GF%, 7.75 shot %, 33.05 shots for/60

 

They probably deserved a bit better than the results indicated, but there weren't many stretches of dominance.

 

The 5v5 data w/ Strome was polar opposite. Mediocre underlying for the last two years but high results:

 

'21-'22 47.21 xGF%, 57.33 GF%, 10.49 shot %, 29.49 shots for/60

'20-'21: 49.75 xGF%, 59.52 GF%, 9.92 shot %, 31.49 shots for/60

'19-'20: 55.58 xGF%, 65.75 GF%, 11.85 shot %, 34.65 shots for/60

 

That combo was ok being outplayed because they finished the chances they generated even if it was fewer than the opponent. I added shot % to depict that, and contrast with what was seen from Panarin and Trocheck. Panarin/Trocheck was much better defensively, but the output was worse because they didn't finish as effectively. I wanted to look up high danger numbers for the combos, because I kind of suspect Panarin/Strome simply generated better scoring chances even if they gave more up, but that stat isn't available for combos on Evolving Hockey.

Edited June 5, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Drew a Penalty]

Congrats to Rangers HC Patrick Roy on his Memorial Cup win.

[siddious]

10 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

Congrats to Rangers HC Patrick Roy on his Memorial Cup win.

I was just gonna say I have a feeling we get a coach this week and likely tomorrow. 

[skunkman]

I have no idea thus why I am asking?

Is Roy the player also Roy the coach's Son?

 

 

 

If so how cool is that?

[BrooksBurner]

 

 

Starting at 12 seconds: "They laid out a roadmap for what they wanted to achieve in Patrick Roy's last year as a head coach"

 

What do they know? 

[Pete]

14 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Re: "Gallant just juggles lines"

 

The kid line combination was 7th in 5v5 TOI amongst all combinations in the league: https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/combos/?_inputs_&std_c3_range="Seasons"&std_c3_players=null&std_c3_adj="No Adjustment"&dir_combo="F Lines"&std_c3_str="5v5"&std_c3_toi="30"&std_c3_type="Rates"&std_c3_span="Regular"&std_c3_team="All"&std_c3_season="20222023"

 

It's not hard to see why he stuck with it either because their underlying numbers were fantastic (52x GF%, 53 CF%) as were actual results relative to what they were giving up (60 GF%, very strongly on the plus side). He also stuck with Kreider/Zibanejad because it works, so he is more than willing to stick with combinations that work.

And yet the kid line were the ones complaining about the juggling lol.

 

Underlying numbers of cool, but you know what's better? Actual numbers. And the kid line It's just where he stashed the disappointments. He literally said that he played them all together because he didn't like the way they played separately, so let's not act like there was some grand plan here. 

 

You're desperately trying to live in a world where this is not about the coach, meanwhile everybody knows it was always about the coach. 

 

That's why the coach doesn't have a job right now. That's why the coach can't keep a job. 

 

What an absolutely batshit and seeing argument lol. "He didn't juggle lines! He kept one together!"

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Pete

[Pete]

9 hours ago, The Dude said:

I'm seriously not being a dick here.

 

But... is this fact? I haven't seen anything saying that the players exit interviews are what fueled the 2 to "part ways"  Is there a quote from Drury or Gallant that backs this? 

 

It's very possible. It may be what happened. But it is speculation. 

 

For all we know, it could have been an analytics argument, that just couldn't be solved. 

 

If you could provide a link to quotes to back this, I'd appreciate it. I'm honestly just asking. 

 

 

Yes It's a fact. 

 

Quote

The Devils made critical adjustments, both in terms of their lineup choices and fast-paced style of play, while the Blueshirts failed to come up with effective counter moves.

 

That spelled the end for Gallant, who has yet to make it through three full seasons in any of his four NHL head-coaching gigs. His straightforward system, which is predicated on a hard-working forecheck and direct puck movement, was initially freeing for many of the Rangers. But it quickly grew stale, while his constant line juggling seemed to increasingly frustrate players. There was also a frequent deflecting of blame that didn't well with some in the organization, according to multiple sources.

 

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/nhl/rangers/2023/05/06/gerard-gallant-ny-rangers-fired-coach-loss-devils/70176227007/

 

 

And you can listen here at 10 mins in.

many other pods also mentioned the players asked for help in the exits. 

 

 

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

Me looking in this thread daily for anything and then going back to work.

 

[BrooksBurner]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

And yet the kid line were the ones complaining about the juggling lol.

 

Underlying numbers of cool, but you know what's better? Actual numbers. And the kid line It's just where he stashed the disappointments. He literally said that he played them all together because he didn't like the way they played separately, so let's not act like there was some grand plan here. 

 

You're desperately trying to live in a world where this is not about the coach, meanwhile everybody knows it was always about the coach. 

 

That's why the coach doesn't have a job right now. That's why the coach can't keep a job. 

 

What an absolutely batshit and seeing argument lol. "He didn't juggle lines! He kept one together!"

 

 

 

Gallant was just the easiest change to make. He wasn't the one who handed out NMCs like candy, nor was he the one who depleted the entire right wing corps and attempted to overhaul the same position two years in a row with trades.

 

The line juggling starts and ends with who played RW in the top 6. That was a roster construction issue. Panarin/Trocheck were 27th in the league in 5v5 TOI together amongst other forward pairings. That's more minutes together than Marchand/Bergeron, Pastrnak/Krejci, Aho/Jarvis. I don't think I have to bother on Kreider/Zibanejad. Everyone knows they stick together at all strengths.

 

I've been noticing a trend lately too, and that's that I have been providing some statistical backing to my arguments. You've provided nothing except social media talking points, where casual fans love to direct blame away from their favorite players.

[BrooksBurner]

I'm ready for Patrick Roy. He has won so much in his career as both a player and a coach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Roy#Awards

[Sharpshooter]

I think Drury has been waiting on Roy also. Laviolette would be fine, but he was probably just going through the motions giving him an interview. I think Roy would be a good fit here, former long time friend and teammate of Chris'. Everything just checks off.

[Pete]

32 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Gallant was just the easiest change to make. He wasn't the one who handed out NMCs like candy, nor was he the one who depleted the entire right wing corps and attempted to overhaul the same position two years in a row with trades.

 

The line juggling starts and ends with who played RW in the top 6. That was a roster construction issue. Panarin/Trocheck were 27th in the league in 5v5 TOI together amongst other forward pairings. That's more minutes together than Marchand/Bergeron, Pastrnak/Krejci, Aho/Jarvis. I don't think I have to bother on Kreider/Zibanejad. Everyone knows they stick together at all strengths.

 

I've been noticing a trend lately too, and that's that I have been providing some statistical backing to my arguments. You've provided nothing except social media talking points, where casual fans love to direct blame away from their favorite players.

Are those totals for 5v5 time? Because they were injuries involved for a lot of those players you're mentioning.

 

Of course the players deserve some blame. But you're in this world where it's just the players and the rest of us know it's not. 

 

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding depleting the right wing core, two of our top draft picks haven't panned out. That's why we don't have right wings. 

 

I think the mistake you're making in your whining about my post is that I'm not using social media talking points I'm using actual media talking points. They know a lot more than you, or me. You tried to prove a point that he didn't juggle lines, And yet hear the media is reporting that the players were frustrated with the line juggling. 

 

The thing I'm noticing about your posts is that you're still complaining about players because you're mad at them, and because I keep calling you out for being irrational regarding players because you're angry with certain individuals, now you just keep repeating "your favorite players" blah blah blah. But here's the funny thing, neither Bread nor Zib are my favorite player. So you can take a hike with that. I just like to defend players who are unjustly criticized, and I did it with Strome and I didn't even like him that much. I just couldn't understand why everybody was ragging on him when all he did was produce above his station.

 

All Panarin and Zib have done his lead this team to the playoffs. So you can whine about what they did there, but without them this team doesn't make them. 

[Drew a Penalty]

9 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

 

Starting at 12 seconds: "They laid out a roadmap for what they wanted to achieve in Patrick Roy's last year as a head coach"

 

What do they know? 

 

 

Things I heard brought up about Roy and the Remparts during last night's game:

 

Best defensive team in the entire CHL.

Well-planned and perfectly executed game plan.

Complete buy-in from all players.

 

What have the Rangers been missing?

[BrooksBurner]

26 minutes ago, Pete said:

Are those totals for 5v5 time? Because they were injuries involved for a lot of those players you're mentioning.

 

Of course the players deserve some blame. But you're in this world where it's just the players and the rest of us know it's not. 

 

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding depleting the right wing core, two of our top draft picks haven't panned out. That's why we don't have right wings. 

 

I think the mistake you're making in your whining about my post is that I'm not using social media talking points I'm using actual media talking points. They know a lot more than you, or me. You tried to prove a point that he didn't juggle lines, And yet hear the media is reporting that the players were frustrated with the line juggling. 

 

The thing I'm noticing about your posts is that you're still complaining about players because you're mad at them, and because I keep calling you out for being irrational regarding players because you're angry with certain individuals, now you just keep repeating "your favorite players" blah blah blah. But here's the funny thing, neither Bread nor Zib are my favorite player. So you can take a hike with that. I just like to defend players who are unjustly criticized, and I did it with Strome and I didn't even like him that much. I just couldn't understand why everybody was ragging on him when all he did was produce above his station.

 

All Panarin and Zib have done his lead this team to the playoffs. So you can whine about what they did there, but without them this team doesn't make them. 

 

The media has also acknowledged the NMCs on the team, and hinted at roster construction, but they don't go too deeply past that. They recognize the minimal likelihood of something like that happening, as they should. It doesn't mean they don't think it's a problem and that the coach being fired is a cure all like I read on here. There's too much evidence backing the idea that the players in addition to the coach shared blame, and all we are really debating at this point is who shouldered more of it.

 

When we hear "line juggling", we have to consider who Drury gave Gallant to play RW in the top 9, and the fact he also brought in a new top 6 C in Trocheck. The options were Kakko, Lafreniere switched out of his natural position, Blais fresh off an ACL tear, GOAT, Vesey, and Goodrow. I don't care who is coach. That is going to require some musical chairs to see if anything sticks, especially when I also read stuff halfway into the season like "Panarin doesn't fit with Trocheck and doesn't work well with Zibanejad". So now you've got two positions on Panarin's line that are being questioned, and the suggestion becomes more line juggling to figure it out. Even in your lines that you want to see next season, you want two guys Panarin hasn't played much with at all (Chytil and Goodrow) and see if it works. If it doesn't, and the odds are against it working, there's more shifting around to be done. That's line juggling to a T, and it's more related to roster construction than it is coaching preference to do it.

 

Re: last comment, how riveting. The team wouldn't make the playoffs without $20 million in subtracted from the roster without any regard for how that $20 million would be spent. Meaningless comment. It's also quite the backhand to the biggest reason the team makes the playoffs (Igor), and the biggest reason the team has any pulse at 5v5 at all (Fox).

[BrooksBurner]

32 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

 

Things I heard brought up about Roy and the Remparts during last night's game:

 

Best defensive team in the entire CHL.

Well-planned and perfectly executed game plan.

Complete buy-in from all players.

 

What have the Rangers been missing?

 

All of the above, but I don't think the last one can be achieved with the current roster no matter the coach, and it's the most important one.

[Drew a Penalty]

5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

All of the above, but I don't think the last one can be achieved with the current roster no matter the coach, and it's the most important one.

 

I think the former two reinforce the latter. The Rangers have belief in themselves, to an extent, but it's fiat hope. It's based in their potential and talent, but not backed by any actual system or identity to fall back on. It's easier to buy into an identity or system when you know exactly what it is. The Rangers haven't had a noticeable system or identity for years.

[Phil]

48 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

Things I heard brought up about Roy and the Remparts during last night's game:

 

Best defensive team in the entire CHL.

Well-planned and perfectly executed game plan.

Complete buy-in from all players.

 

What have the Rangers been missing?

 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

I'm ready for Patrick Roy. He has won so much in his career as both a player and a coach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Roy#Awards

 

Same. @Drew a Penalty has me convinced. Plus, I'm so completely underwhelmed with all other available options, may as well root for chaos!

 

If he keeps that amazing beard, we can even call him Coach Beard!

 

[siddious]

I’m all for Roy. I won’t be disappointed with Lav. I don’t get what the hold up is. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

I think the former two reinforce the latter. The Rangers have belief in themselves, to an extent, but it's fiat hope. It's based in their potential and talent, but not backed by any actual system or identity to fall back on. It's easier to buy into an identity or system when you know exactly what it is. The Rangers haven't had a noticeable system or identity for years.

 

5v5, yeah, but there's only so much premium ice time and that's what the young players are looking for. The PP is where top picks generally pile up points and ultimately make their money on extensions out of their ELC. Kakko and Lafreniere have been blocked from that opportunity. There's only so much buy-in that can occur when careers are affected on that kind of a financial and personal level.

[Drew a Penalty]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

 

5v5, yeah, but there's only so much premium ice time and that's what the young players are looking for. The PP is where top picks generally pile up points and ultimately make their money on extensions out of their ELC. Kakko and Lafreniere have been blocked from that opportunity. There's only so much buy-in that can occur when careers are affected on that kind of a financial and personal level.

 

All of these players want to win. I'm sure if they were proper pieces of a puzzle, they'd be more open to playing roles. You do what you have to in order to win. The issue being the Rangers haven't had a clear plan for how to use their players.