Alexis Lafreniere and the Rangers Reach a Critical Point

[Br4d]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Then he'd be a pretty invisible 35 point player with bonus PP points? 

30 goals is 30 goals.

 

The Rangers wouldn't be in the position of potentially trading him away for a rental this year.

[BrooksBurner]

 

 

 

[siddious]

51 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

 

 

I’ll be shocked if we trade him 

[BrooksBurner]

17 minutes ago, siddious said:

I’ll be shocked if we trade him 

I would be surprised, but I think there’s a non-impossible chance it could happen (10%?).

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, rmc51 said:

 

 

 

Boeser or nothing  

[siddious]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Boeser or nothing  

Problem is we can afford anyone that would actually help this team. 
 

im not against trading Laf I just don’t know what a good deal would even begin to look like considering his diminished value and the rangers cap situation. 

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Boeser or nothing  

 

At 50%. But now they've traded Lafreniere for a RWer who isn't as good as Buchnevich, who they got junk for.

Edited January 3, 2023 by rmc51

[josh]

His old agent works for Vancouver 

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, rmc51 said:

 

 

 

I’d rather bridge Laf than get a rental for two months. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

I’d rather bridge Laf than get a rental for two months. 

 

Yeah. Dahliwal name drops Horvat, but I think the real target would be Boeser.

 

The problem is I have no idea how to put a trade value on Lafreniere. Boeser at 50% ($3.325M) for 2 more years after this one would certainly define a window for winning before Shesterkin gets $10M (here or elsewhere, either way it's a problem).

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Yeah. Dahliwal name drops Horvat, but I think the real target would be Boeser.

 

The problem is I have no idea how to put a trade value on Lafreniere. Boeser at 50% ($3.325M) for 2 more years after this one would certainly define a window for winning before Shesterkin gets $10M (here or elsewhere, either way it's a problem).

Last year when I was floating trade ideas it was brought up to me that no one can remember any trades with retention for more than the current season. That’s a pretty big ask for a team to trade for an RFA they will need to re-up AND also pay a 50% retention for two years more along the way. Plus, the Canucks aren’t working with a shit ton of cap space next year (13.4m) which likely at best stays exactly the same only if Alf agrees to a bridge. 

[josh]

50 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Last year when I was floating trade ideas it was brought up to me that no one can remember any trades with retention for more than the current season. That’s a pretty big ask for a team to trade for an RFA they will need to re-up AND also pay a 50% retention for two years more along the way. Plus, the Canucks aren’t working with a shit ton of cap space next year (13.4m) which likely at best stays exactly the same only if Alf agrees to a bridge. 

Kessel trade had retention for multiple years, by multiple teams.

[Phil]

If they send the number one overall pick, bad as he's been, for Brock Boeser or a UFA Bo Horvat, fire the entire front office — again.

[BrooksBurner]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

If they send the number one overall pick, bad as he's been, for Brock Boeser or a UFA Bo Horvat, fire the entire front office — again.

 

Well, I mean, you know it would be Dolan applying the pressure to win now, right?

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, Keirik said:

I’d rather bridge Laf than get a rental for two months. 

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

If they send the number one overall pick, bad as he's been, for Brock Boeser or a UFA Bo Horvat, fire the entire front office — again.

 

I'm with you guys!  I think we have gotta stick with this kid.  I still believe he's the type that's "JT Miller-esque"...I think we'd regret this one for decades.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Ozzy

[Keirik]

2 hours ago, rmc51 said:

 

Well, I mean, you know it would be Dolan applying the pressure to win now, right?

Do you honestly believe Dolan even knows we have a draft let alone 1OA? He just looks at wins and we are good there.

[4EverRangerFrank]

But how do you ‘make’ a guy get in shape? His inability to play the game at a fast level is infuriating. Everyone talks about his skills but this MF’er is becoming a real late bloomer. Get it together dude! 

[Phil]

10 hours ago, rmc51 said:

 

Well, I mean, you know it would be Dolan applying the pressure to win now, right?

 

Yes, and my point stands. If you're dealing the FIRST OVERALL PICK, before he's even signed a second contract, for Brock Boeser, or a UFA center (after you just signed Trocheck), I'd fire you.

[jsm7302]

What's the end game with this kid? Honestly the timing to be an impactful LW in this roster is terrible. Sign him to an extension and then let him sit and bake on the 3rd line for another 3 seasons? And then tell Othmann, to wait that long for a crack at the third line spot himself? Too many LWers. Reality is someone has to go to shore up another weak spot. Two of em have NMC's. We went to the ECF last year so to say and wait this season and next until Kreiders NMC is a NTC seems like a complete waste of two years of potential winning a cup. Laf seems to be the odd man out and outside of his draft position, I'm trying to wonder why the pushback when it could mean making the roster more complete and more competitive for the cup. Our goal isn't to ice the nicest roster in the league; it is simply to win championships as a team. If we can grab another RW (not on a expiring contract) for Laf then you have to do it. Imo.

[BrooksBurner]

I said it all summer, but Kreider should be moving over to the right.

[LindG1000]

12 hours ago, rmc51 said:

 

Yeah. Dahliwal name drops Horvat, but I think the real target would be Boeser.

 

The problem is I have no idea how to put a trade value on Lafreniere. Boeser at 50% ($3.325M) for 2 more years after this one would certainly define a window for winning before Shesterkin gets $10M (here or elsewhere, either way it's a problem).

 

I think this is the problem. How do you appropriately value a player who was picked first overall less than three years ago, who has a history of being a wildly successful player, but can't seem to get it going in the NHL - or at least not in this situation?

 

You have a couple situations to look at, I guess.

 

There's Chris Pronger, who was traded in 1995 straight up for Brendan Shanahan at the end of his second pro season. Pronger was 2nd overall in 1993 and high potential but not really the Pronger we know yet; Shanahan a 26-year-old wing with multiple recent 50-goal seasons.

You have Bryan Berard who was traded for Wade Redden, Marty Straka, Don Beaupre, and Damian Rhodes. Berard was the first overall in 1995; Redden the second overall, Straka a 23 year old who had a booming second year and a very poor follow-up post lockout, Beaupre a goalie on his last legs, and Rhodes, a very middling goalie.

 

Those two deals are ancient at this point, and probably are more food for thought on the valuation of unknowns than anything to see. 

 

The deal I'd be looking at is something like the Erik Johnson trade. Johnson was traded in his third season (asterisk since he missed a whole season due to injury and double-asterisk since he didn't actually play in the NHL in his first year, so fifth year of team control), along with Jay McClement and a 1st rounder (ended up being 11th overall) for Kevin Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart, and a conditional 2nd. Keep in mind that Shattenkirk was a rookie first-rounder running the Avs PP (7-19-26 in 47GP and Stewart was at the time viewed as a top-end young power forward.  That's probably more what we're looking at.

 

I'd say this pretty concretely - any competent Lafreniere trade secures multiple young assets with years of team control. I don't think a Boeser or a Horvat makes sense here - I actually don't think the Canucks have the horses for it. 

 

 

 

[Pete]

Just now, rmc51 said:

I said it all summer, but Kreider should be moving over to the right.

If that was going to happen, it would have happened. It's not going to happen. And frankly, it shouldn't. 

[BrooksBurner]

32 minutes ago, Pete said:

If that was going to happen, it would have happened. It's not going to happen. And frankly, it shouldn't. 

Yes. It won’t happen right now. Yes it should, just not right now.

 

I would have done it at the very start of this season, but that was assuming Lafreniere was in good enough shape. It should happen next year, assuming Lafreniere follows through on conditioning.

Edited January 3, 2023 by rmc51

[Valriera]

Lafreniere is the worst, fattest, most out of shape kid with a bad attitude producing 35points per season in the history of the national hockey league. We should trade him. He also is not old enough to drink yet, but he definitely does or he wouldn't have such a beer belly.

 

I'm going to laugh when, Lafreniere figures out the physical conditioning bits of his game, and pots 80 points with no powerplay time. We'll still call him fat. 

 

Need to layoff these immature kids and just watch them grow. It's not like Lafreniere has a bad attitude or anything. Kid shows up, works hard, throws his body, goes to the hard area of the ice, and hasn't figured his game out yet. Great. Sometimes that takes a while and sometimes the kids just have shitty attitudes when they aren't gifted what they want. That's not Laf and never has been for even one single game of his career. While it would have been great if he was connor mcdavid because we would have definitely won the cup last year, he's not, and I don't think we need to hold that against him. Me? I'm keeping a 35point third line player who doesn't play the power play on this team, unless someone makes me an offer I can't refuse, maybe this year's 1OA/2OA or something similar, and I don't think that's remotely controversial. 

 

[jsm7302]

49 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Yes. It won’t happen right now. Yes it should, just not right now.

 

I would have done it at the very start of this season, but that was assuming Lafreniere was in good enough shape. It should happen next year, assuming Lafreniere follows through on conditioning.

Nah, you don't move your 50 goal scorer to their off wing in hopes of seasoning a kid. They just went to the ECF.....Building around the core of this team is what needs to happen, not trying to reform the core in place.