Alexis Lafreniere and the Rangers Reach a Critical Point

[siddious]

The front office would have been crucified on 7th ave if they had not taken the consensus first over all with the first over all pick. I’d say there’s a snow flakes chance in hell that wasn’t happening. 
 

the fact that they haven’t been able to address someone slotting to the right yet is just further proof this organization is horrible. 

[Blue Heaven]

16 minutes ago, siddious said:

The front office would have been crucified on 7th ave if they had not taken the consensus first over all with the first over all pick. I’d say there’s a snow flakes chance in hell that wasn’t happening. 
 

the fact that they haven’t been able to address someone slotting to the right yet is just further proof this organization is horrible. 

Makes the Buchnevich trade look even worse....Yes I know 20/20 hindsight and the Rangers couldn't afford him.  Overall the pandemic really screwed the NYR.  Things would have probably been different if Kreider wasn't extended right before the shutdown.  

[josh]

8 minutes ago, Blue Heaven said:

Makes the Buchnevich trade look even worse....Yes I know 20/20 hindsight and the Rangers couldn't afford him.  Overall the pandemic really screwed the NYR.  Things would have probably been different if Kreider wasn't extended right before the shutdown.  

Yeah they’d have 2 more underperforming prospects they would have received in that trade  

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Blue Heaven said:

Makes the Buchnevich trade look even worse....Yes I know 20/20 hindsight and the Rangers couldn't afford him.  Overall the pandemic really screwed the NYR.  Things would have probably been different if Kreider wasn't extended right before the shutdown.  

But even that's just a small part of the problem.

 

You can talk about linemates playing time, opportunity, etc., however Laf has played with Zib, Panarin, on hot lines, on cold lines. He's never once been a guy who makes you say "We need more of what he's got, up and down the lineup and on on the PP". He's always just "there" and that's part of his problem.

 

As far as the power play time... Sure it would have been nice if he had more, but how much different would he be today, with his obvious physical limitations? 

[josh]

How would he be if he was confident in his abilities at the NHL starting 3 seasons ago? The possibilities are endless.

 

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, josh said:

How would he be if he was confident in his abilities at the NHL starting 3 seasons ago? The possibilities are endless.

 

That's such an easy thing to throw out there, but unfortunately the eyeball test shows otherwise. 

[Gravesy]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

That's such an easy thing to throw out there, but unfortunately the eyeball test shows otherwise. 

The eyeball test can’t tell you what he’d be as a player if the Rangers had handled him better from day 1. We just don’t know.

I think it’s pretty safe to say he was never as good as everyone thought he was coming out. But is there a world where he’s a 50-60 point player by now? I strongly believe so. But of course it’s all moot because he was drafted by an org with no space or desire to accommodate and develop a young LW. 

[Art20c]

Why nobody considers central scouting rating to have been wrong. Like they were wrong with yakupov in recent past and jagr and nedved long ago. Btw 2nd oa of laf draft ain’t playing at all. 

[josh]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

That's such an easy thing to throw out there, but unfortunately the eyeball test shows otherwise. 

The eyeball test of his entire career other than when he’s played for the Rangers. 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, josh said:

The eyeball test of his entire career other than when he’s played for the Rangers. 

When he was always the oldest, biggest, most talented guy? And now he's none of that? 

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

The eyeball test can’t tell you what he’d be as a player if the Rangers had handled him better from day 1. We just don’t know.

I think it’s pretty safe to say he was never as good as everyone thought he was coming out. But is there a world where he’s a 50-60 point player by now? I strongly believe so. But of course it’s all moot because he was drafted by an org with no space or desire to accommodate and develop a young LW. 

I keep asking what people saw in his game as a rookie that makes them think he had a bright future as an NHLer. No one can answer me. The best I got was "His career before he got here", which is largely irrelevant. 

 

He should have been in the AHL with Kakko. That probably would have shown him where he needed to improve (obviously skating and conditioning) instead of the rude awakening he got in the NHL.

 

And you're right, maybe that gets you a 50-60 point player. At 1OA still a sizeable disappointment. He just doesn't have any of the physical tools to separate himself into an upper-echelon player, nor has he improved anything about his game since coming in. 

 

Maybe it is going to take 4-5 years a la Chytil and Kakko. I've just never seen a collective group of prospects come in and all look so inept.

 

I'd blame coaching but it's not a problem for the defense. They look disorganized a ton, and that's coaching, but no one questioned whether Fox, Miller, Lindgren or Schneider even belong in the league. 

[Gravesy]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'd blame coaching but it's not a problem for the defense. They look disorganized a ton, and that's coaching, but no one questioned whether Fox, Miller, Lindgren or Schneider even belong in the league. 

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said there, but surely no one questions whether Lafreniere and Kakko are NHL players. The kids line when left alone are already a functional 2nd/3rd line in the NHL and just had a very impressive playoffs. 

[CBrowningPI]

I think Laf will figure it out similarly as JT Miller did. As someone previously mentioned he has to mature as an NHL professional, become a man, and stop acting like everyones goofy little brother. I think it will happen for him but it may be a change of scenario that makes it click, because he just looks too comfortable being the player in progress. 

[Pete]

29 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said there, but surely no one questions whether Lafreniere and Kakko are NHL players. The kids line when left alone are already a functional 2nd/3rd line in the NHL and just had a very impressive playoffs. 

That's not the argument I'm making, what I'm saying is from the second these players stepped into the NHL there was no doubt that they belonged.

 

There is certainly a serious argument to be made that all the forwards should have spent time in the AHL.

 

I'm also not as impressed by the playoffs as some others here were, especially where number 13 is concerned. 

[CBrowningPI]

Just throwing this out there but Lafreniere is 5th on the team in hits with 70. Chytil w/ 26 and Kakko w/ 17. Maybe his play would pick up if he was as soft as his linemates on the kids line but that seems like mis-messaging or whatever. 

[siddious]

18 minutes ago, CBrowningPI said:

Just throwing this out there but Lafreniere is 5th on the team in hits with 70. Chytil w/ 26 and Kakko w/ 17. Maybe his play would pick up if he was as soft as his linemates on the kids line but that seems like mis-messaging or whatever. 

Might be impressive if I’ve never seen a Lafrenier hit which is usually just him finishing his slow ass forecheck and lightly throwing his body into the opponent while the puck is usually already on its way back to the rangers zone. 
 

I can’t, in 3 years, recall one meaningful hit he’s thrown. His physicality might have been the only thing more over hyped than his skill.

[CBrowningPI]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

Might be impressive if I’ve never seen a Lafrenier hit which is usually just him finishing his slow ass forecheck and lightly throwing his body into the opponent while the puck is usually already on its way back to the rangers zone. 
 

I can’t, in 3 years, recall one meaningful hit he’s thrown. His physicality might have been the only thing more over hyped than his skill.

Noted!

[Scott]

When the eyeball test is all you have (which says he's not good at much of anything)  vs. well IF he would of had PP time things would be so very different just close your eyes I guess to make the scenario work. 

 

55 minutes ago, siddious said:

Might be impressive if I’ve never seen a Lafrenier hit which is usually just him finishing his slow ass forecheck and lightly throwing his body into the opponent while the puck is usually already on its way back to the rangers zone. 
 

I can’t, in 3 years, recall one meaningful hit he’s thrown. His physicality might have been the only thing more over hyped than his skill.

I would call them bumps. I don't see any edge there whatsoever. Just within the last two weeks he's been buried a couple times with questionable crosschecks in the back. He get's up after the whistle and does absolutely nothing. No face wash, no stink eye, no yapping, nothing. Take it and like it.

[jamsim1967]

On 12/30/2022 at 1:57 PM, Karan said:

 

This is what I'm starting to believe as well. Maybe the scouts got it wrong and he simply wasn't ready, both from a physical and mental development standpoint, to make the jump (more like a giant leap) from juniors to the NHL. I know it may seem like a big career setback to demote an 1OA pick to the AHL after 3 seasons, but he's still only 21 and we've gotta think of the long game here. It's not necessarily just about this season or next as far as Laffy is concerned, but we need his production for next 5-10+ years. 

He needs work, and they need to decide where he's going to get that work, New York or Hartford. Pretty big transition going from Juniors to the NHL, and not everyone can do it. Whatever they decide, it needs to be for the benefit of their #1 overall pick.

[The Dude]

Let's see what happens when Gallant reinserts him into the lineup.  Maybe he plays against Carolina. 

 

Oh? He's playing tonight? You sure? 

[BrooksBurner]

I'm pretty concerned to be honest.

[Art20c]

He was invisible today again

[jsm7302]

14 hours ago, Art20c said:

He was invisible today again

How offensive?!? Dude won the Broadway hat!!! What game were you watching?!?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....maybe one day he will be more than a place holder...just maybe.

[Br4d]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:55 AM, Pete said:

But even that's just a small part of the problem.

 

You can talk about linemates playing time, opportunity, etc., however Laf has played with Zib, Panarin, on hot lines, on cold lines. He's never once been a guy who makes you say "We need more of what he's got, up and down the lineup and on on the PP". He's always just "there" and that's part of his problem.

 

As far as the power play time... Sure it would have been nice if he had more, but how much different would he be today, with his obvious physical limitations? 

 

Well he'd likely have been a 30 goal scorer last year if he was on PP1.

 

Now I know that's not saying he'd be a major star but how different would the perspective be both for him and everybody else if he'd scored 30 goals and had 55 points last season?

 

That's likely what putting him on PP1 would have done.

 

I get that he's not a great player at this point but the overall disappointment level in him has been greatly exacerbated by the Rangers treating him like a guy who has to fight for every scrap on the ice.  That's *not* how you treat a #1OA unless you really want to be disappointed in him.

 

A #1OA LW on most bad teams gets the best C on the team next to him and a good RW as well.  That's because it is in the interest of the team to give their best overall prospect the best chances to succeed.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Br4d

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Br4d said:

 

Well he'd likely have been a 30 goal scorer last year if he was on PP1.

 

Now I know that's not saying he'd be a major star but how different would the perspective be both for him and everybody else if he'd scored 30 goals and had 55 points last season?

 

That's likely what putting him on PP1 would have done.

Then he'd be a pretty invisible 35 point player with bonus PP points?