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Alexis Lafreniere and the Rangers Reach a Critical Point


Pete
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6 minutes ago, Keirik said:

my issue with that would be that we then have our best two faceoff guys on the same line. Ziby and Tro really shouldn't be taking regular shifts together just for that reason I guess. 

 

I agree, but GG does have enough coaching savvy to put Trocheck out on lines where they may struggle. He started several Kid Line shifts with Trocheck out instead of Laf, and then Tro would come to the bench afterwards.

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I don't see Zib and Krieder being separated  honestly, it would require a crowbar if it were for more than a blink or two of an eye. Seems to be one constant he always comes back too. RIghtly so imo. There's some real gaps and no real proven answers on the current roster again just my opinion.

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5 hours ago, The Dude said:

Which to me means, he should be on a line that is dedicated to a checking role. Which should be the 4th line. I don’t think saddling Trochek with less talent is what needs to be done.  Having both Vesey and Goodrow with him, isn't going to do Trochek much good. 

 

Kreider fit well with Trochek. Kravtsov jumping up to line 1 isn't all about how much he's earned it. It's more or less just where he fits. I'm not into putting Vesey on the 1st line. I'd rather make or break Kravtsov by giving him a cush spot with the teams top forwards. 

 

Getting Goodrow to the 4th line, forces Gallant to not shorten the bench and IMO Goodrow is at his best on the 4th line WITH 4th liners. 

The 4th line isn't out there defending anyone though. They aren't deployed against the other teams top players in a shutdown role.

 

Also it's not like Trocheck makes anyone around him better, and are we really sitting trying to construct lines for his benefit? "Doing Trocheck good" is not the point of this. At all. 

 

Also, when GG shortens the bench he doesn't sit the 4th line. He sits who he feels like and moves everyone else around. 

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12 hours ago, Pete said:

The 4th line isn't out there defending anyone though. They aren't deployed against the other teams top players in a shutdown role.

 

The Rangers 4th line is deployed more offensively than defensively. Brodzinski, Reaves, Blais, Leschyshyn, Carpenter are all among the top skaters in Off. Zone Start % and Off. Zone FO %. Gallant doesn't trust his 4th line players in defensive situations and gives them offensive opportunities they shouldn't have.

 

Tangentially related, Lafreniere is 4th in Off. Zone Start % and 3rd in Off. Zone FO %. Gallant can't really make it any easier for him.

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12 hours ago, Pete said:

The 4th line isn't out there defending anyone though. They aren't deployed against the other teams top players in a shutdown role.

 

Also it's not like Trocheck makes anyone around him better, and are we really sitting trying to construct lines for his benefit? "Doing Trocheck good" is not the point of this. At all. 

 

Also, when GG shortens the bench he doesn't sit the 4th line. He sits who he feels like and moves everyone else around. 


Do we know that yet? All we know is that neither Panarin nor Trocheck seem to benefit from the other on the same line.

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9 minutes ago, rmc51 said:


Do we know that yet? All we know is that neither Panarin nor Trocheck seem to benefit from the other on the same line.

The PP isn't better. When he was on a line with Vesey and Kreider they were good but no one caught fire. No one on the team's production has gone up, and they've all played together. The only forward pacing a career year is Chytil who doesn't play with Tro and  Kakko and who never made it to Tro's line for more than a hot minute.

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Just now, Pete said:

The PP isn't better. When he was on a line with Vesey and Kreider they were good but no one caught fire. No one on the team's production has gone up, and they've all played together. The only forward pacing a career year is Chytil who doesn't play with Tro and  Kakko and who never made it to Tro's line for more than a hot minute.


Yet Tro is 2nd in PPG on the team by a healthy amount. Seems he’s not the problem. I thought we were talking 5v5 though?

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16 hours ago, Pete said:

The 4th line isn't out there defending anyone though. They aren't deployed against the other teams top players in a shutdown role.

 

Also it's not like Trocheck makes anyone around him better, and are we really sitting trying to construct lines for his benefit? "Doing Trocheck good" is not the point of this. At all. 

 

Also, when GG shortens the bench he doesn't sit the 4th line. He sits who he feels like and moves everyone else around. 

Hence why I said the 4th line should be a checking line. They have 2 good players that can be put out there to do that. Isn't that pretty much what the attraction to Goodrow was all about?  To build a checking line? 

 

As for Trocheck. The guy is signed long term. They most certainly need to do good and get Trocheck going. They team needs a balanced attack and to stop relying on 4 players for offense. Building a quality 3rd line that works and can be leaned on is essential. When hasn't it been? 

 

Meh about Gallant shortening the bench. If Goodrow isn't on that 4th line, the 4th line isn't seeing time in the 3rd period. If Goodrow IS, they get the shifts you speak of. There's only been a few instances where Gallant gas picked and choosed forwards from separate lines to build a defensive unit for late game  shut down situations.  

 

Sorry man. I think constructing a line for Trocheck is very important.  Simply because he can't play with Panarin.  Doing nothing with him is a waste. Nevermind his former Gallant guy card that he holds. He's going to be used. A lot. 

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13 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Hence why I said the 4th line should be a checking line. They have 2 good players that can be put out there to do that. Isn't that pretty much what the attraction to Goodrow was all about?  To build a checking line? 

 

As for Trocheck. The guy is signed long term. They most certainly need to do good and get Trocheck going. They team needs a balanced attack and to stop relying on 4 players for offense. Building a quality 3rd line that works and can be leaned on is essential. When hasn't it been? 

 

Meh about Gallant shortening the bench. If Goodrow isn't on that 4th line, the 4th line isn't seeing time in the 3rd period. If Goodrow IS, they get the shifts you speak of. There's only been a few instances where Gallant gas picked and choosed forwards from separate lines to build a defensive unit for late game  shut down situations.  

 

Sorry man. I think constructing a line for Trocheck is very important.  Simply because he can't play with Panarin.  Doing nothing with him is a waste. Nevermind his former Gallant guy card that he holds. He's going to be used. A lot. 

Yeah, the fourth line should be doing a certain thing but that's never going to happen under Gallant.

 

Likewise, he's just going to sit the kids when he needs to shorten the bench and move up goody and veezy. 

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On 1/25/2023 at 7:26 PM, Pete said:

Yeah, the fourth line should be doing a certain thing but that's never going to happen under Gallant.

 

Likewise, he's just going to sit the kids when he needs to shorten the bench and move up goody and veezy. 

If Gallant sits the kids he should be fired. They are the best line the Rangers have. He’s got to play them more not less 

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So how bad would it be if Lafreniere turns into a 3rd line LW with 15-20 goals and 35 points a year?

 

Assuming the Rangers can bridge him cheaply this year we'll have a pretty good idea by 2025 if that's the case.  The way he's been playing lately he'd probably be a good 3rd liner for the Rangers.  Then there will always be the possibility of a breakout year as he approaches his prime.

 

Watching Chytil this year makes me think there's a really good argument for just signing Laffy as cheaply as we can and letting him continue to figure things out on the ice.

 

I'm not a big GG fan at this point but I think he's right that the kids have played worse on lines with vets and that they defer to much in that situation, stunting their growth in the process.

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2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

So how bad would it be if Lafreniere turns into a 3rd line LW with 15-20 goals and 35 points a year?

 

Assuming the Rangers can bridge him cheaply this year we'll have a pretty good idea by 2025 if that's the case.  The way he's been playing lately he'd probably be a good 3rd liner for the Rangers.  Then there will always be the possibility of a breakout year as he approaches his prime.

 

Watching Chytil this year makes me think there's a really good argument for just signing Laffy as cheaply as we can and letting him continue to figure things out on the ice.

 

I'm not a big GG fan at this point but I think he's right that the kids have played worse on lines with vets and that they defer to much in that situation, stunting their growth in the process.

If he turns into that, it's just incredibly bad luck and typical Rangers luck that a team who never gets 1OA got the worst one in a decade.

 

But yea, every team needs 3rd liners. It's like when you think your kid is gonna be a doctor or lawyer in college, but then they wind up a laborer. It is what it is.

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8 hours ago, Pete said:

If he turns into that, it's just incredibly bad luck and typical Rangers luck that a team who never gets 1OA got the worst one in a decade.

 

But yea, every team needs 3rd liners. It's like when you think your kid is gonna be a doctor or lawyer in college, but then they wind up a laborer. It is what it is.

 

I'm finding it to be a calming effect thinking of Lafreniere as a good 3rd liner and not as a failed 1OA.  Sunk costs are sunk costs and it he turns out to be a good 3rd LW he gives us other options down the road.

 

Will be a lot easier to trade Kreider (or potentially Panarin if Othman proves out) knowing that we're still going to have LW covered for depth and talent.

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1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

I'm finding it to be a calming effect thinking of Lafreniere as a good 3rd liner and not as a failed 1OA.  Sunk costs are sunk costs and it he turns out to be a good 3rd LW he gives us other options down the road.

 

Will be a lot easier to trade Kreider (or potentially Panarin if Othman proves out) knowing that we're still going to have LW covered for depth and talent.

Leaving Othmann stuck as a 4th liner for the next few years. Awesome. 

 

No. Walk away. Let go of the 1OA glimmer. He'd be blocking the better fit in Othmann. 

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1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

I'm finding it to be a calming effect thinking of Lafreniere as a good 3rd liner and not as a failed 1OA.  Sunk costs are sunk costs and it he turns out to be a good 3rd LW he gives us other options down the road.

 

Will be a lot easier to trade Kreider (or potentially Panarin if Othman proves out) knowing that we're still going to have LW covered for depth and talent.


Sounds like cope to me.

 

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