BrooksBurner Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Keirik said: To be honest, you can always say this for plenty of guys not named McJesus. Kakko included. Here’s just some of his goals from this year where others are doing the leg work. I do think Kakko is leaps above laf right now but if you are going to just dismiss a third of his goals, then you have to do it for others as well. Just bridge Laf for two years and I think it’ll prove to be one of the smartest decisions we do as an organization in years. I implore you to re-look at the goals I mentioned. I gave timestamps. I'll even willingly say that the rebound one I mentioned wasn't quite as easy as the other ones I mentioned. None of these goals (EN aside) by Kakko are of the same ilk, as they require a good shot and finish. Lafreniere had a handful of similar ones to these that I did not count either for the same reason. These are not the same as having a goalie giveaway end up on your stick with an open net, or finding a puck literally sitting on the goal line and nudging it forward 2 inches. I already do it for others (see my post on Kreider). Except Chytil. He's a boss and all of his goals are sexy. Empty netters while sick included. Suck it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, rmc51 said: I implore you to re-look at the goals I mentioned. I gave timestamps. I'll even willingly say that the rebound one I mentioned wasn't quite as easy as the other ones I mentioned. None of these goals (EN aside) by Kakko are of the same ilk, as they require a good shot and finish. Lafreniere had a handful of similar ones to these that I did not count either for the same reason. These are not the same as having a goalie giveaway end up on your stick with an open net, or finding a puck literally sitting on the goal line and nudging it forward 2 inches. I already do it for others (see my post on Kreider). Except Chytil. He's a boss and all of his goals are sexy. Empty netters while sick included. Suck it! Implore me to relook at the goal video that I sent you in the first place? I sent the video. I watched it. I’m pretty sure I can take most NHL players and find a handful here and there that aren’t sexy goals or are goals where your linemates do a lot of the work. Tap ins, rebounds, etc still require you to be in the right place at the right time. I’m not sure why we are even disregarding them so much considering Laf is in the dirty areas that so many other guys are refusing to go (ie Panarin). He also did his scoring at even strength solely which last year was second on the team only behind Kreider. More even strength goals than Panarin, Strome, Ziby, etc. I’m not giving up on that so easily. This year is a different story. However, I have evidence that he can do at least those things. As you said, hopefully he has a come to Jesus moment this offseason and next year he makes the same leap that Kakko has this year. Trading him though before that is a huge mistake in my opinion even if this is a lost season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 17 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I implore you to re-look at the goals I mentioned. I gave timestamps. I'll even willingly say that the rebound one I mentioned wasn't quite as easy as the other ones I mentioned. None of these goals (EN aside) by Kakko are of the same ilk, as they require a good shot and finish. Lafreniere had a handful of similar ones to these that I did not count either for the same reason. These are not the same as having a goalie giveaway end up on your stick with an open net, or finding a puck literally sitting on the goal line and nudging it forward 2 inches. I already do it for others (see my post on Kreider). Except Chytil. He's a boss and all of his goals are sexy. Empty netters while sick included. Suck it! If you're saying Laf should consider bringing a putter on the ice rather than a stick I would agree at this point. He completely lost me with the chin strap bs during a time in his career when he's done nothing but disappoint. If that's what got him scratched good, it's a sign of being so disconnected as the rest of the team is gathered around the bench during a time out. He's lucky it was only for one game. If that's not the cause than shame of Gallant for not sending that message. It screams of immaturity at the exact wrong time. Yay he'll be bridged and relatively cheap, Well done kid, well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keirik said: To be honest, you can always say this for plenty of guys not named McJesus. Kakko included. Here’s just some of his goals from this year where others are doing the leg work. I do think Kakko is leaps above laf right now but if you are going to just dismiss a third of his goals, then you have to do it for others as well. Just bridge Laf for two years and I think it’ll prove to be one of the smartest decisions we do as an organization in years. Look, it's plain as day there there were at least 5 goals that were ENG+where the goalie misplayed a puck (specifically Elliot v TB)+luck... and these goals you're posting for Kakko just aren't that. On 2 of them he's drifting backwards taking one timers off the rush. That's not easy. And it's not just about scoring off layups. Kakko always did more to drive play and away from the puck that Lafreneiere ever has. This reminds me of the Dubinsky had 54 points and goals were just going in off his legs, his ass, ENGs out the wahzoo. And frankly he's on pace to score 10 this year. So we feel pretty good saying he had some good luck last year, and some bad luck this year, and what's that get you? a 14-16 goal scorer? Come on. He stinks for a 1OA. They're obviously going to bridge him unless the right deal comes. At this point you just hope he becomes a serviceable 3rd liner. Edited January 10, 2023 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 16 hours ago, Keirik said: Sorta? But not really. Here is his goal list. A lot of off passes but they are still driving to the net, quick releases, not over stick handling, good reading of where to be,picking a spot on one timers, etc. There are a couple of lucky ones in there but still. Kakko didn’t do it, Chytil didn’t til the playoffs, etc. can’t just dismiss a 19 goal sophomore season. Oddly. Seems like a majority of those goals were score from the right hand side of the ice. Maybe Gallant is just a a- hole and doesn't like him on the RW. Much like how he doesn't like Goodrow as a C. I've said previously, earlier this season, Lafrenière looked good on the RW with Panarin. I really don't understand why it hasn't been tried again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Dude said: Oddly. Seems like a majority of those goals were score from the right hand side of the ice. Maybe Gallant is just a a- hole and doesn't like him on the RW. Much like how he doesn't like Goodrow as a C. I've said previously, earlier this season, Lafrenière looked good on the RW with Panarin. I really don't understand why it hasn't been tried again. A lot of people have suggested that Laf used to play more like a center rather than a winger so you aren’t far off iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 My breakdown all the goals... Legit, from the left Legit from the left, all Blais on the play tho Legit from the right, all Fox on the play tho Legit from the right Legit from the left Legit from the left NOPE, Elliot gave it right to him Legit from the left, ALL STROMER BONER He didn't even take credit for this one... That's atrocious goaltending Legit deflection from the left Legit snipe from right Legit rebound from right That's atrocious goaltending Legit, from the left Legit from the right (after a scratch) Legit move, but that's atrocious goaltending...Objection SUSTAINED! Legit from the right Legit from the left, ALL STROMER BONER So 4 off the top are kind of a joke, and it's about 50/50 from what side of ice. Looks like he could be equally effective from either side as long as another player does the heavy lifting and the goalie isn't looking. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 26 minutes ago, jsrangers said: Yay he'll be bridged and relatively cheap, Well done kid, well done. Ontop of that he will be blocking Othmann. If he's just going to be a 3rd liner, I don't understand the fascination in keeping him in the same situation. His problem doesn't line up with how Kakko and Chytil have taken their next steps. They were put in situations to succeed. Kakko has 3 lines that he can potentially slide up and down. Chytil can slide up one or remain where he is and still contribute . Where is Lafrenières opportunity? Are they going to separate Kreider and Zibanejad again? Kreider on the 3rd line? Panarin on the 3rd line? I don't understand how anyone thinks Lafrenière can improve while staying in the spot he's in. He's not going to get that desired PP1 spot. He's not going to all of a sudden carry that 3rd line and force his way up. What is the end game here? Keep him as a wimpy, poor skating , poor puck handling, semi skill winger? If people think he's just going to put it together and become an all world player, I want to hear it. If that's your belief. Great. Fine. But if it's not, why is anyone attached to this player? What's the point? Move on, cash out and backfill with more potential, instead of blocking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 17 minutes ago, Pete said: Look, it's plain as day there there were at least 5 goals that were ENG+where the goalie misplayed a puck (specifically Elliot v TB)+luck... and these goals you're posting for Kakko just aren't that. On 2 of them he's drifting backwards taking one timers off the rush. That's not easy. And it's not just about scoring off layups. Kakko always did more to drive play and away from the puck that Lafreneiere ever has. This reminds me of the Dubinsky had 54 points and goals were just going in off his legs, his ass, ENGs out the wahzoo. And frankly he's on pace to score 10 this year. So we feel pretty good saying he had some good luck last year, and some bad luck this year, and what's that get you? a 14-16 goal scorer? Come on. He stinks for a 1OA. They're obviously going to bridge him unless the right deal comes. At this point you just hope he becomes a serviceable 3rd liner. Dubinsky. Torts was playing him like 20 minutes a game. Lafreniere is in the 13s. Dubinsky was a product of being overplayed ad nauseous. Also, there is a giant difference between “he stinks” and “he stinks for where he was drafted.” You can call it luck to score 19 and that’s a fine opinion to have. I don’t agree though that his ceiling is written in stone here. I just think the jury is still out on him. His ceiling is not defined yet. Bridge for two years at slightly higher than Kakko was and reap the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 1/8/2023 at 7:57 PM, rmc51 said: Lol Gauthier's fault 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Keirik said: Implore me to relook at the goal video that I sent you in the first place? I sent the video. I watched it. I’m pretty sure I can take most NHL players and find a handful here and there that aren’t sexy goals or are goals where your linemates do a lot of the work. Tap ins, rebounds, etc still require you to be in the right place at the right time. I’m not sure why we are even disregarding them so much considering Laf is in the dirty areas that so many other guys are refusing to go (ie Panarin). He also did his scoring at even strength solely which last year was second on the team only behind Kreider. More even strength goals than Panarin, Strome, Ziby, etc. I’m not giving up on that so easily. This year is a different story. However, I have evidence that he can do at least those things. As you said, hopefully he has a come to Jesus moment this offseason and next year he makes the same leap that Kakko has this year. Trading him though before that is a huge mistake in my opinion even if this is a lost season. Yeah. Re-watch them because there’s no way you remember by heart the ones I’m referencing and there’s no way you think the Kakko goals you shared are supposed to be equivalents. There’s right place right time, then there’s right place right time right putter (thanks for the laugh @jsrangers). I’ve given Lafreniere credit for his positioning. It’s one of the good parts of his game. His hockey IQ is pretty good despite the braindead OT play last game. I chalk that up as a one off. I haven’t given up on him either, as I said he gets another year barring a trade offer that can’t be refused, but when he looks more like a play driver I’ll 100% acknowledge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Gauthier's fault I got this one @The Dude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 39 minutes ago, Pete said: My breakdown all the goals... Legit, from the left Legit from the left, all Blais on the play tho Legit from the right, all Fox on the play tho Legit from the right Legit from the left Legit from the left NOPE, Elliot gave it right to him Legit from the left, ALL STROMER BONER He didn't even take credit for this one... That's atrocious goaltending Legit deflection from the left Legit snipe from right Legit rebound from right That's atrocious goaltending Legit, from the left Legit from the right (after a scratch) Legit move, but that's atrocious goaltending...Objection SUSTAINED! Legit from the right Legit from the left, ALL STROMER BONER So 4 off the top are kind of a joke, and it's about 50/50 from what side of ice. Looks like he could be equally effective from either side as long as another player does the heavy lifting and the goalie isn't looking. Fact check: All goals counted the same 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Gotta think he gets his shooting percentage back to the first 2 seasons. He’s way below that right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 minute ago, rmc51 said: Yeah. Re-watch them because there’s no way you remember by heart the ones I’m referencing and there’s no way you think the Kakko goals you shared are supposed to be equivalents. There’s right place right time, then there’s right place right time right putter (thanks for the laugh @jsrangers). I’ve given Lafreniere credit for his positioning. It’s one of the good parts of his game. His hockey IQ is pretty good despite the braindead OT play last game. I chalk that up as a one off. I haven’t given up on him either, as I said he gets another year barring a trade offer that can’t be refused, but when he looks more like a play driver I’ll 100% acknowledge it. Just rewatched. My opinion stays the same. I wasn’t sharing the Kakko goals to say they are identical. That’s nearly impossible. I was sharing to show that even this year with Kakkos leap further, some of his goals were accomplished with a lot of heavy lifting by others so he really needs to only be in good position and pick a spot. Im not even sure any of this matters. A few of Alf’s goals were tap ins? We literally are picking apart things to that level? Then Kreider last year really only scored like 35 goals I guess. I, not sure this is proving anything other than we are just looking to discount things for the hell of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, josh said: Fact check: All goals counted the same I'll file this away for when you're complaining about goals from players you're not stanning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Keirik said: Just rewatched. My opinion stays the same. I wasn’t sharing the Kakko goals to say they are identical. That’s nearly impossible. I was sharing to show that even this year with Kakkos leap further, some of his goals were accomplished with a lot of heavy lifting by others so he really needs to only be in good position and pick a spot. Im not even sure any of this matters. A few of Alf’s goals were tap ins? We literally are picking apart things to that level? Then Kreider last year really only scored like 35 goals I guess. I, not sure this is proving anything other than we are just looking to discount things for the hell of it. Yeah we’re picking apart things to that level. Sad we have to do that with a 1OA ain’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 minute ago, rmc51 said: Yeah we’re picking apart things to that level. Sad we have to do that with a 1OA ain’t it? We don’t. Some of us see that you can take 19 goals for what it is, a 19 goal season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, Keirik said: We don’t. Some of us see that you can take 19 goals for what it is, a 19 goal season. Yes. You can. But you shouldn’t if you want to be right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Well, he's most likely going to get a long look in the top six. He needs this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/8/2023 at 1:59 PM, Keirik said: It’s kind of silly to speculate that. If that were the case, he’s not making it through a morning skates/practices let alone full NHL games and training camp prior to the season. How do we know what his conditioning was coming in? He could easily by at 80% from Covid and have that look like what we are seeing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Br4d said: How do we know what his conditioning was coming in? He could easily by at 80% from Covid and have that look like what we are seeing now. We don’t, but it’s not on me to prove speculation is wrong. It’s on the speculation to prove there is something to it and it doesn’t seem like there is. Considering how many eyes are on him even just from a coaching, training, medical staff, it’s rather unlikely that there is a medical issue going unnoticed. He had Covid nearly 365 days ago. He also came back after missing 2 games, played in over an entire NHL season worth of games going forward from half of last year, a run to the semi finals, an offseason to recover, and another 40 games this year. That’s about 100 nhl games. Where is the indication that he has long Covid coming from? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Rangers’ Lafreniere Struggling to Match Success of Devils’ Hughes Quote It’s too early for the impatient crowd to declare Lafreniere a bust simply because he wasn’t Connor McDavid or Austin Matthews or Sidney Crosby right out of the gate – Lafreniere, after all, was never billed as a generational prospect, no matter what it says on Twitter these days. At the same time, those who are certain that the Quebec native is a superstar-in-waiting might not have a leg to stand on at this point, either. What everyone can be sure about is that Lafreniere’s career has so far been wanting. It’s true that his first season was a pandemic-altered one that robbed him of a much-needed training camp, and that COVID-19 continued to play havoc with the NHL after that. However, blaming Lafreniere’s bumpy road solely on the coronavirus amounts to a cop-out. Numerous other players taken in that draft, such as third overall selection Tim Stutzle of the Ottawa Senators and No. 4 pick Lucas Raymond of the Detroit Red Wings, appear to be on their way to the elite status befitting their draft positions. Why hasn’t Lafreniere? At this point, there’s a myriad of potential reasons. Let’s take a look at some of them. https://thehockeywriters.com/rangers-lafreniere-struggling-to-match-devils-hughes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 20 minutes ago, Keirik said: Rangers’ Lafreniere Struggling to Match Success of Devils’ Hughes https://thehockeywriters.com/rangers-lafreniere-struggling-to-match-devils-hughes/ Bumpy road? He scored 19 goals last year. Looks like smooth sailing to me. What does everyone expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Bumpy road? He scored 19 goals last year. Looks like smooth sailing to me. What does everyone expect? I stopped reading after they said he wasn't supposed to be a generational talent. Because. He was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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