Alexis Lafreniere and the Rangers Reach a Critical Point

[Pete]

1 hour ago, josh said:

Welcome to 3 years ago. 
 

His shot from that spot is set up by his threat to pass to someone with a 1 timer.  On this team, game after game, no one finishes the set up. 

Don't kid yourself, there is no setup. 

 

And if he needs such a specific set of circumstances to be effective, then he's just not effective. You think after 3 years of that play not being available to him, he would figure out something else. 

[RangersIn7]

They are not trading him. 
And certainly not at the deadline.

 

If he does get moved, it would be in the summer. Or if a fantastic breakdown occurred. Which it hasn’t.

 

Again… we can compare him to other 1OVA’s. And it doesn’t look good.

To me, he just looks like a kid who is very much trying to find himself and his game and how to work and train at the NHL level. While trying to just fit in and not be a diva about anything. 
 

It’ll come. 
 

But it’ll come when it comes.

 

 

[The Dude]

14 minutes ago, josh said:

 

 

This doesn't apply to me. I didn't give up on either.  I saw flashes of talent throughout their first few years. The ability to take over on a shift and create offense.

 

Its few and far between to think of any time Lafrenière dominated a shift and created anything. He did much better at the end of last season and in the playoffs though. I guess that counts. It certainly got my hopes up. But look at him now.

 

Youd think the scratch would have woke him up. Or atleast got his motor going.  Same same. Enter zone with puck, curl along the boards, dish a wild pass into someone's skates that is in no position to be ready for a pass. No lead pass. No tap in at the side of the net. Just curl, chuck it and start leaning towards center ice because he already gave up on the play. 

 

Yayy to his 5v5 minutes/ points. He has 5 goals this year. Same as Gauthier.  1 less than Vesey. 3 more than Kravtsov, 4 more than Hajek.

 

5

 

Goals. 

 

 

 

 

[Scott]

27 minutes ago, jamsim1967 said:

If he were 25 it wouldn't matter, he's 21.

 

I'm not going to get on anybody for wanting him gone. I get it, he's playing like crap. I just think it's way to soon. If he goes somewhere else, and all of a sudden becomes all world, then you have to look at GG and his "it's not my job to develop players." comment. Maybe coaches should take an interest in struggling players who come into the league as a can't miss talent. But then again, maybe that's not a GG strength. I'll bet their are coaches and GM's in this league who would jump at the chance to bring LaFreniere into the fold.  

I think you need to start with  Dolan  for the way the org operates and the expectations of winning now. Personally, I don't think you should have to hold the hand of a 1OA in year 3, when he's shown you nothing on the whole. He's not the only one who's gone through the unique circumstances that have been the last three seasons either.  GG seems to have done ok with say Schneider we giving him credit for that or no (there's others too)?  If I'm GG and I see a turd and I'm on the clock to win or else than yeah I say I'm not in the business of developing players during games.  Even at that he's continued to roll him out there (pun intended) in all but two games.

 

It sucks this kid is where he is as a fan, you don't expect so little.  He's getting lapped by the field at this point. I hope there are other GMs that are willing to jump at the chance in situations where there are little to no expectations and they can burn a few years waiting for it to maybe happen for the kid.

 

@The Dude Schneider now has the same # of goals. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by jsrangers

[Pete]

1 hour ago, josh said:

That’s a Quinn thing. Make mistakes faster! 

This isn't any more true now than when you conjured it up before...

 

But if you want to blame him, I guess we can say his effect only carried over to top forward draft picks, oh and Ryan Spooner. 

 

Everybody else seemed fine. One guy even won a Norris. 

[RangersIn7]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

This doesn't apply to me. I didn't give up on either.  I saw flashes of talent throughout their first few years. The ability to take over on a shift and create offense.

 

Its few and far between to think of any time Lafrenière dominated a shift and created anything. He did much better at the end of last season and in the playoffs though. I guess that counts. It certainly got my hopes up. But look at him now.

 

Youd think the scratch would have woke him up. Or atleast got his motor going.  Same same. Enter zone with puck, curl along the boards, dish a wild pass into someone's skates that is in no position to be ready for a pass. No lead pass. No tap in at the side of the net. Just curl, chuck it and start leaning towards center ice because he already gave up on the play. 

 

Yayy to his 5v5 minutes/ points. He has 5 goals this year. Same as Gauthier.  1 less than Vesey. 3 more than Kravtsov, 4 more than Hajek.

 

5

 

Goals. 

 

 

 

 

Totally get it.

 

Its not instant coffee.

His path has been crooked.

And he’s not on anyones timetable but his own.

 

Itll happen when it happens.

 

And if it doesn’t,…. Then EVERYONE was wrong about him 30 months ago. 

[BrooksBurner]

The second anyone has to start talking about needing certain teammates for a player to succeed is the same second we drop any kind of "special" label, and if a player isn't special, then they aren't a typical 1OA.

 

Chytil has one of the best shots on the team by the way, and Kakko has been on Laf's line plenty also, so there's nothing wrong with his linemates. Lafreniere has been secondary assisting his way to points, so he should be thanking those guys and others.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, jamsim1967 said:

I saw brief glimpses of it last season on the kid line, but go back and take a look at his 2020 World Junior Championship Play. He may not be playing like it now, but less than 3 years ago, at the age of 18 he was amazing. And I realize that's not the NHL, but it does show that he had/has the ability to be a force in this league, and it's way to early to pull the plug.

So the way he played when he was older, bigger, stronger than everybody else?

 

And he's not, now, so there goes any advantage she had. 

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Totally get it.

 

Its not instant coffee.

His path has been crooked.

And he’s not on anyones timetable but his own.

 

Itll happen when it happens.

 

And if it doesn’t,…. Then EVERYONE was wrong about him 30 months ago. 

 

It's not that simple. There's legitimate Stanley Cup runs at stake. Doubling down on sunk cost is a big issue. Not saying it's there yet, but it's close.

[The Dude]

23 minutes ago, jamsim1967 said:

If he were 25 it wouldn't matter, he's 21.

 

I'm not going to get on anybody for wanting him gone. I get it, he's playing like crap. I just think it's way to soon. If he goes somewhere else, and all of a sudden becomes all world, then you have to look at GG and his "it's not my job to develop players." comment. Maybe coaches should take an interest in struggling players who come into the league as a can't miss talent. But then again, maybe that's not a GG strength. I'll bet their are coaches and GM's in this league who would jump at the chance to bring LaFreniere into the fold.  

Oh, I totally blame the Rangers for mismanaging the player. I also think that besides Gauthier,  Lafrenière gets a really short leash from Gallant. It used to be Chytil. 

 

If anything,  did they really have to take him off Panarin/ Trocheks RW, when they put that combo together? They started off pretty good.  Got luke warm and he pulled the plug.  This cocky arrogant approach towards some of the kids is fucking annoying.  

 

Last year with the Kakko scratch in favor of Hunt (elimination game). Certain points where he'd just fuck with Chytil last year. Kravtsov this year. Gauthier too. Even Jones this year. Kid line was getting hot? Fuck that, break em up again in the middle of a winning streak. 

 

I just don't see Lafrenières avenue to success here. He's not making a  case for himself and he has a bigger mountain to climb than Chytil and Kakko.  Those guys have claimed open roster spots. There is no advancement opportunity for Lafreniere.  Especially if he's going to play the way he has been. Add on dick head coach and the best solution may be to take the L and trade him for a team need (top 6 RW). 

 

If Gallant wasn't an asshole,  he'd put Lafrenière back on the Panarin line. Buuut, Kravtsov IS making strides and may be earning that spot himself.  Problem is, Lafrenière should have been there prior to Kravtsovs recent opportunity. 

 

If Lafrenière is being a cunt about playing RW. Then this is all on him. Do what you're asked to do.  Make your name,  then you can make demands on where you'll play. 

 

 

[RangersIn7]

16 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

It's not that simple. There's legitimate Stanley Cup runs at stake. Doubling down on sunk cost is a big issue. Not saying it's there yet, but it's close.

Define close.

 

And also… do you believe they drafted him

1OVA to trade him?

 

Theyre going to ride this out.

[The Dude]

15 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Totally get it.

 

Its not instant coffee.

His path has been crooked.

And he’s not on anyones timetable but his own.

 

Itll happen when it happens.

 

And if it doesn’t,…. Then EVERYONE was wrong about him 30 months ago. 

 

But this isn't the 9th overall pick.  This wasn't a project player. This was 1OA. This was generational talent.  

 

His path was most certainly crooked, but there hasn't been much shown by him to move the needle. If Zegras were playing on the 3rd line, do you think he'd turn into a blob off 3rd line jelly and be content with staying there? Or does he play his cock off to force the coach to give him bigger spots? 

 

What generational talent wouldn't be able to climb up from the 3rd line, getting favorable match ups?  They would light it up. Lafrenière hasn't come close to doing that. He currently isn't even the best player on the 3rd line. 

 

How he got here is certainly an issue that I can't fully put on (just) him. But he's where he's at and he's not doing anything that you'd expect a 1OA would do, to make the situation better.  Where's the talent? Where's the hustle? Where's the drive? Come on tubby. Do something to open the door.  A shift. A period. Be greedy. Be selfish. Show everyone! 

[BrooksBurner]

Just now, RangersIn7 said:

Define close.

 

And also… do you believe they drafted him

1OVA to trade him?

 

Theyre going to ride this out.

 

I don't agree with the premise of the question. Nobody drafts 1OA to trade him. But 1OAs have been traded some time after the fact.

 

Close is probably one more year. If he doesn't have it together by next trade deadline, and the team is good, I'm moving my chips all in to improve the team while the actually good players are in their prime.

[jamsim1967]

29 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

I think you need to start with  Dolan  for the way the org operates and the expectations of winning now. Personally, I don't think you should have to hold the hand of a 1OA in year 3, when he's shown you nothing on the whole. He's not the only one who's gone through the unique circumstances that have been the last three seasons either.  GG seems to have done ok with say Schneider we giving him credit for that or no (there's others too)?  If I'm GG and I see a turd and I'm on the clock to win or else than yeah I say I'm not in the business of developing players during games.  Even at that he's continued to roll him out there (pun intended) in all but two games.

 

It sucks this kid is where he is as a fan, you don't expect so little.  He's getting lapped by the field at this point. I hope there are other GMs that are willing to jump at the chance in situations where there are little to no expectations and they can burn a few years waiting for it to maybe happen for the kid.

 

@The Dude Schneider now has the same # of goals. 

I get it, and I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying that it's to soon to give up on a 21 year old #1 pick. And as for comparing him to other players, all players are different in the way they adapt.

 

Good post though ...

[Pete]

1 hour ago, josh said:

 

 

Over the same span, Kreider on ice goal differential is +30 while Lafreniere is -2.

 

Kreider 492 shots, Lafreniere 245.

 

They're close in hits tho!

[jamsim1967]

36 minutes ago, Pete said:

So the way he played when he was older, bigger, stronger than everybody else?

 

And he's not, now, so there goes any advantage she had. 

It wasn't just about him, it was about the entire team. He made everyone on the ice with him that much better. I think the talents still there, and I'm waiting for it to show itself.

[josh]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Over the same span, Kreider on ice goal differential is +30 while Lafreniere is -2.

 

Kreider 492 shots, Lafreniere 245.

 

They're close in hits tho!

 

OK, shots on goal > actually contribution 

Got it  

[josh]

51 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

The second anyone has to start talking about needing certain teammates for a player to succeed is the same second we drop any kind of "special" label, and if a player isn't special, then they aren't a typical 1OA.

 

Chytil has one of the best shots on the team by the way, and Kakko has been on Laf's line plenty also, so there's nothing wrong with his linemates. Lafreniere has been secondary assisting his way to points, so he should be thanking those guys and others.

We just went a week talking about kreider and zibanhasbeenbad 

[jamsim1967]

35 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Oh, I totally blame the Rangers for mismanaging the player. I also think that besides Gauthier,  Lafrenière gets a really short leash from Gallant. It used to be Chytil. 

 

If anything,  did they really have to take him off Panarin/ Trocheks RW, when they put that combo together? They started off pretty good.  Got luke warm and he pulled the plug.  This cocky arrogant approach towards some of the kids is fucking annoying.  

 

Last year with the Kakko scratch in favor of Hunt (elimination game). Certain points where he'd just fuck with Chytil last year. Kravtsov this year. Gauthier too. Even Jones this year. Kid line was getting hot? Fuck that, break em up again in the middle of a winning streak. 

 

I just don't see Lafrenières avenue to success here. He's not making a  case for himself and he has a bigger mountain to climb than Chytil and Kakko.  Those guys have claimed open roster spots. There is no advancement opportunity for Lafreniere.  Especially if he's going to play the way he has been. Add on dick head coach and the best solution may be to take the L and trade him for a team need (top 6 RW). 

 

If Gallant wasn't an asshole,  he'd put Lafrenière back on the Panarin line. Buuut, Kravtsov IS making strides and may be earning that spot himself.  Problem is, Lafrenière should have been there prior to Kravtsovs recent opportunity. 

 

If Lafrenière is being a cunt about playing RW. Then this is all on him. Do what you're asked to do.  Make your name,  then you can make demands on where you'll play. 

 

 

Agree.

[josh]

50 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Oh, I totally blame the Rangers for mismanaging the player. I also think that besides Gauthier,  Lafrenière gets a really short leash from Gallant. It used to be Chytil. 

 

If anything,  did they really have to take him off Panarin/ Trocheks RW, when they put that combo together? They started off pretty good.  Got luke warm and he pulled the plug.  This cocky arrogant approach towards some of the kids is fucking annoying.  

 

Last year with the Kakko scratch in favor of Hunt (elimination game). Certain points where he'd just fuck with Chytil last year. Kravtsov this year. Gauthier too. Even Jones this year. Kid line was getting hot? Fuck that, break em up again in the middle of a winning streak. 

 

I just don't see Lafrenières avenue to success here. He's not making a  case for himself and he has a bigger mountain to climb than Chytil and Kakko.  Those guys have claimed open roster spots. There is no advancement opportunity for Lafreniere.  Especially if he's going to play the way he has been. Add on dick head coach and the best solution may be to take the L and trade him for a team need (top 6 RW). 

 

If Gallant wasn't an asshole,  he'd put Lafrenière back on the Panarin line. Buuut, Kravtsov IS making strides and may be earning that spot himself.  Problem is, Lafrenière should have been there prior to Kravtsovs recent opportunity. 

 

If Lafrenière is being a cunt about playing RW. Then this is all on him. Do what you're asked to do.  Make your name,  then you can make demands on where you'll play. 

 

 

"Gallant is fucking with Lafreniere... and Alexis should accept it"

 

What?? 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Oh, I totally blame the Rangers for mismanaging the player. I also think that besides Gauthier,  Lafrenière gets a really short leash from Gallant. It used to be Chytil. 

 

If anything,  did they really have to take him off Panarin/ Trocheks RW, when they put that combo together? They started off pretty good.  Got luke warm and he pulled the plug.  This cocky arrogant approach towards some of the kids is fucking annoying.  

 

Last year with the Kakko scratch in favor of Hunt (elimination game). Certain points where he'd just fuck with Chytil last year. Kravtsov this year. Gauthier too. Even Jones this year. Kid line was getting hot? Fuck that, break em up again in the middle of a winning streak. 

 

I just don't see Lafrenières avenue to success here. He's not making a  case for himself and he has a bigger mountain to climb than Chytil and Kakko.  Those guys have claimed open roster spots. There is no advancement opportunity for Lafreniere.  Especially if he's going to play the way he has been. Add on dick head coach and the best solution may be to take the L and trade him for a team need (top 6 RW). 

 

If Gallant wasn't an asshole,  he'd put Lafrenière back on the Panarin line. Buuut, Kravtsov IS making strides and may be earning that spot himself.  Problem is, Lafrenière should have been there prior to Kravtsovs recent opportunity. 

 

If Lafrenière is being a cunt about playing RW. Then this is all on him. Do what you're asked to do.  Make your name,  then you can make demands on where you'll play. 

 

 

It seems ovvious to me that neither Gallant nor Lafreniere wants him on the right side. I have a tendency to think it’s Lafreniere expressing some discomfort, and Gallant has covered for it to the press. I distinctly remember him saying in a presser that he likes how Laffy looks on the right better. I think we need to stop pretending Laffy on the right is a good path forward.

 

Blocked on the left. Not going to be slotted on the right. This is one of the things I mentioned a page or two ago. It’s nothing to do with team patience, because it’s not just up to the team. Lafreniere will probably push for his way out before the team pushes him out.

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, josh said:

 

OK, shots on goal > actually contribution 

Got it  

Wait, shots on goal aren't a contribution?

 

The mental gymnastics are astonishing

[josh]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Wait, shots on goal aren't a contribution?

 

The mental gymnastics are astonishing

You’re using shots on goal to use to support a 1st line player with less 5v5 points over a guy you hate. 

 

this is a whole new level of moving the goal posts. 

[Ozzy]

8 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

We all scoffed at the rumored trade proposals prior to the draft and we all would make any of those trades now.  Yes, even Ozzy

 

Guilty as charged! 

[Pete]

10 hours ago, josh said:

You’re using shots on goal to use to support a 1st line player with less 5v5 points over a guy you hate. 

 

this is a whole new level of moving the goal posts. 

 I don't hate him. I hate Trouba. Lafreniere just sucks. Unless you're pulling random stats out of your ass. "He's the best on the team at red hairs/per head and dominates all other Rangers wearing 13!"

 

Sure cool.

 

This thread has went on so long maybe it just needs a level set.

 

I don't hate him. He stinks. Let's just say it's half his fault and half the organization (that's completely untrue but let's just leave it there). 

 

Right now he stinks. Will he stinks tomorrow or next year? I don't know. No one can predict the future. He might not always stink.

 

And for the record, if he doesn't stink next year, there's no receipts. Your blind faith, based on absolutely nothing happening on the ice, just happened to pay off.