Alexis Lafreniere and the Rangers Reach a Critical Point

[Gravesy]

47 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I stopped reading after they said he wasn't supposed to be a generational talent.  Because.  He was. 

According to who?

Most “serious” draft analysts had him a clear tier below McDavid/Matthews etc.

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, rmc51 said:

Bumpy road? He scored 19 goals last year. Looks like smooth sailing to me. What does everyone expect?

 

What are you quoting me for lol. I just shared the article. I didn’t write it. 

[BrooksBurner]

19 minutes ago, Keirik said:

What are you quoting me for lol. I just shared the article. I didn’t write it. 

I was quoting the post with the article in it so people knew where my bumpy road reference was coming from. I didn’t realize it’d be such a triggering experience for you lol

 

Maybe all ya’ll mods need to brainstorm about having a generic article-sharing account if you don’t want to be quoted. Or just log into Phil’s @CCCP alt account and share it from there.

[Albatrosss]

i aint sharing shit!

[Keirik]

54 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I was quoting the post with the article in it so people knew where my bumpy road reference was coming from. I didn’t realize it’d be such a triggering experience for you lol

 

Maybe all ya’ll mods need to brainstorm about having a generic article-sharing account if you don’t want to be quoted. Or just log into Phil’s @CCCP alt account and share it from there.

Oh I’m not triggered. I just want my 5 seconds back from having to read the response. That’s 5 seconds less I have to analyze Kakkos goal totals to see if he’s still pacing 18 goals this year in his huge breakout season. 

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Oh I’m not triggered. I just want my 5 seconds back from having to read the response. That’s 5 seconds less I have to analyze Kakkos goal totals to see if he’s still pacing 18 goals this year in his huge breakout season. 

Maybe you should spend less time on Kakko, he's clearly outperforming Lafreniere.

[BrooksBurner]

9 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Oh I’m not triggered. I just want my 5 seconds back from having to read the response. That’s 5 seconds less I have to analyze Kakkos goal totals to see if he’s still pacing 18 goals this year in his huge breakout season. 

You need more than that back now just from typing out all of these replies

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Maybe you should spend less time on Kakko, he's clearly outperforming Lafreniere.

*this year. But as always, I really do appreciate the suggestion. 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, Gravesy said:

According to who?

Most “serious” draft analysts had him a clear tier below McDavid/Matthews etc.

And?

 

Were the "serious" analysts right?  Serious and non serious draft analysts missed. Big time. He's a good 3rd liner though.  Right? Right.  Well not this year. Last year he was. Kinda. Not really. 

 

Please share the "serious " scouting reports. 

[Pete]

53 minutes ago, Keirik said:

*this year. But as always, I really do appreciate the suggestion. 

I'm just sayin, you got a kid coming, gotta be economical with your time! 🫶

 

Also this year is the only one that matters for this particular discussion  

Edited January 11, 2023 by Pete

[Keirik]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm just sayin, you got a kid coming, gotta be economical with your time! 🫶

 

Also this year is the only one that matters for this particular discussion  

Lol. I’ll have you know I made that kid in 5 seconds as well 

[Pete]

53 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Lol. I’ll have you know I made that kid in 5 seconds as well 

[josh]

2 hours ago, Keirik said:

Lol. I’ll have you know I made that kid in 5 seconds as well 

Oh, IVF

[Keirik]

41 minutes ago, josh said:

Oh, IVF

Lol no sir. 

[Gravesy]

12 hours ago, The Dude said:

And?

 

Were the "serious" analysts right?  Serious and non serious draft analysts missed. Big time. He's a good 3rd liner though.  Right? Right.  Well not this year. Last year he was. Kinda. Not really. 

 

Please share the "serious " scouting reports. 

And what?

You said he was meant to be a generational talent. 

I said that's not what several reports from several of what I would consider serious sources said. For example:

 

Quote

Projection

Lafreniere has looked the part of an elite prospect for years. He’s dominated the QMJHL for three straight seasons. He’s been one of the better Canadians in junior international play in recent memory.

He has elite skill and elite vision. He can make incredible plays, and if given space he can beat goalies from a distance. He competes his tail off, he’s physical and he can play off the puck. His skating isn’t high-end, but it’s good.

The nitpicks of him could be his pace. The fact he’s a winger and not a center, something he said he hasn’t done much of his life and is much more comfortable being a winger. I’m not so sure positions are that important, and it feels like hockey is developing, at least for skaters, into more of a position-less sport the more time goes on.

He’s not a perfect prospect. He didn’t crush the CHL the way a guy like Crosby, John Tavares or Connor McDavid did, and given Lafreniere's lack of elite speed, I wouldn’t feel comfortable discussing him as that tier of a prospect.

He is a projected impact player though given all his amazing attributes. He is even as a winger someone who can project to become a foundational part of a team’s rebuild, a true star and a potential leading scorer in the NHL.

 

https://theathletic.com/1713841/2020/10/06/pronmans-scouting-report-why-alexis-lafreniere-is-a-top-nhl-prospect/

 

Ergo, very good. Not generational. 

The fact he hasn't been anywhere near "very good" isn't up for discussion. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Gravesy

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

And what?

You said he was meant to be a generational talent. 

I said that's not what several reports from several of what I would consider serious sources said. For example:

 

https://theathletic.com/1713841/2020/10/06/pronmans-scouting-report-why-alexis-lafreniere-is-a-top-nhl-prospect/

 

Ergo, very good. Not generational. 

The fact he hasn't been anywhere near "very good" isn't up for discussion. 

You didn't bold all the times the writer said "elite", when he isn't elite at anything. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

You didn't bold all the times the writer said "elite", when he isn't elite at anything. 

The only time he mentioned «elite» was with «elite skill and elite vision». He’s not elite their either, but that’s categories that’s not so easy to judge when a guy plays with and against players that are below his skill level.
 

Other than that I think that was a good scouting report. «If given space (which he dont get in the nhl) he CAN beat goalies from a distance. Not a good skater. All his biggest strenghts are intangibles (competes his tail off, he’s physical) and that he «can play off the puck».

[Gravesy]

31 minutes ago, Pete said:

You didn't bold all the times the writer said "elite", when he isn't elite at anything. 

It wasn't necessary, because the point isn't whether the scouting report is accurate.

It's to fucking nit pick whether he was stamped a generational talent or not coming out.

As the article shows, sane individuals did not call him generational. 

[lefty9]

None the less,we got ripped off ,I want the pick back

[lefty9]

I think he needs a stint at CHL

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Gravesy said:

It wasn't necessary, because the point isn't whether the scouting report is accurate.

It's to fucking nit pick whether he was stamped a generational talent or not coming out.

As the article shows, sane individuals did not call him generational. 

I guess that's true, but they did call him elite and therefore their credibility is an issue. To be fair his CHL resume does rival Crosby. 

 

Frankly I think some of these folks in the media need to be called to the carpet with the way they write about these kids. It really sets an unfair expectation.

 

Folks were calling KK NHL ready coming out of the Finnish League. They called him an immediate impact NHL player. I guess they were right, he was a massive negative impact immediately.

 

I think the entire scouting and media arm that talks about these kids prior to the draft really needs to be called out over how wrong they are and how often they're wrong.

 

Stop comparing these draft kids to the best possible versions of NHL players and maybe start writing about what their career path may look like. "This guy might start slow, but he'll get to the level of x-player at the peak of his career".

 

Enough with "This kid has Kane's hands, Ovi's shot, sees the game like Sid, hits like Stevens... All in one package! And he's got a relentless work ethic!" 

[RangersIn7]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

I guess that's true, but they did call him elite and therefore their credibility is an issue. To be fair his CHL resume does rival Crosby. 

 

Frankly I think some of these folks in the media need to be called to the carpet with the way they write about these kids. It really sets an unfair expectation.

 

Folks were calling KK NHL ready coming out of the Finnish League. They called him an immediate impact NHL player. I guess they were right, he was a massive negative impact immediately.

 

I think the entire scouting and media arm that talks about these kids prior to the draft really needs to be called out over how wrong they are and how often they're wrong.

 

Stop comparing these draft kids to the best possible versions of NHL players and maybe start writing about what their career path may look like. "This guy might start slow, but he'll get to the level of x-player at the peak of his career".

 

Enough with "This kid has Kane's hands, Ovi's shot, sees the game like Sid, hits like Stevens... All in one package! And he's got a relentless work ethic!" 

It’s almost as if they overlook the fact that these kids are just teenagers playing against other teenagers and it’s impossible to predict what will happen when they reach the best league in the world and are playing against the best players in the world. Also… as you pointed out, they never seem to want to acknowledge the fact that it might take some time and look rather shitty when they get there for a while. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

The only time he mentioned «elite» was with «elite skill and elite vision». He’s not elite their either, but that’s categories that’s not so easy to judge when a guy plays with and against players that are below his skill level.
 

Other than that I think that was a good scouting report. «If given space (which he dont get in the nhl) he CAN beat goalies from a distance. Not a good skater. All his biggest strenghts are intangibles (competes his tail off, he’s physical) and that he «can play off the puck».

 

There hasn't been anything wrong with Lafreniere's linemates. The bulk of his TOI this year has been with Kakko, Chytil, Trocheck, and Panarin. Over 150 minutes of ice time with all of them.

 

I agree these are traits that are harder to judge level of talent though. I don't think he has the puck on his stick enough to properly evaluate them, but that's still a Lafreniere problem. Personally, I do think elite vision/playmaking is still in there, but I'm not sure how long it will take for it to be out on display. I don't know if I'm willing to wait until he's 26 to breakout and be a 60+ point player, knowing he's basically a dead weight out there at a peak time for the Rangers to be contenders. If his ceiling is now 70-75 points instead of 90, he's not going to be better than the elite players we have currently, so I don't know why we'd sacrifice the window now in exchange for waiting for later.

Edited January 12, 2023 by rmc51

[jsm7302]

37 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

There hasn't been anything wrong with Lafreniere's linemates. The bulk of his TOI this year has been with Kakko, Chytil, Trocheck, and Panarin. Over 150 minutes of ice time with all of them.

 

I agree these are traits that are harder to judge level of talent though. I don't think he has the puck on his stick enough to properly evaluate them, but that's still a Lafreniere problem. Personally, I do think elite vision/playmaking is still in there, but I'm not sure how long it will take for it to be out on display. I don't know if I'm willing to wait until he's 26 to breakout and be a 60+ point player, knowing he's basically a dead weight out there at a peak team for the Rangers to be contenders. If his ceiling is now 70-75 points instead of 90, he's not going to better than the elite players we have currently, so I don't know why we'd sacrifice the window now in exchange for waiting for later.

This summation is spot on for my sentiments also. We in this to develop this kid or win a Cup because we certainly have the pieces to take a shot at the latter. I'd sell Laf tomorrow if it filled a hole on the current roster.

 

" I don't think he has the puck on his stick enough to properly evaluate them, but that's still a Lafreniere problem."

 

^^ Definitely a Laf problem. Krav has less TOI and has shown more imo; ceiling seems higher.

 

I cringed when we went to the shootout against LA last year and Laf skates by their bench after scoring holding a #1.

 

Dude should pad his resume a bit before throwing cocky signs out to the other team. 

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, Gravesy said:

And what?

You said he was meant to be a generational talent. 

I said that's not what several reports from several of what I would consider serious sources said. For example:

 

https://theathletic.com/1713841/2020/10/06/pronmans-scouting-report-why-alexis-lafreniere-is-a-top-nhl-prospect/

 

Ergo, very good. Not generational. 

The fact he hasn't been anywhere near "very good" isn't up for discussion. 

OK. Gotcha.

 

Heres the holes in your guys assessment.

 

This scout called him elite on everything but his pace. Even says one of the best Canadian players  in international play in recent memory. This scout covers ever base. Says hes elite everything but not at the McDavid level,  BUT a foundational player, a true star and a leading scorer in the league.. 

 

Lists attributes and potential of a generational talent,  but covers his ass by say he's not a sure fire generational talent.  Kinda walking the fence. Can't be wrong if hecsays both things. But he was wrong because none of this "serious " scouting is looking accurate.  

 

I'm sure there are plenty others who tote the same line. "He's great at everything, he can carry a team,  he's a guy you build your franchise around because he's so elite and will be a league leader in points...but I wouldn't go as far to say hes Crosby, but maybe..."