2022-23 Reports From the Rink

[jsm7302]

33 minutes ago, Capt said:

I guess but people on here tend not to allow for either conversation when it comes to a guy like Fox.  Fox was playing bad hockey for him.  Points aside.  Panarin, Mika, Kreider, and Trouba have all struggled this year.  That doesn't make them bad players but ignoring that reality isn't a logical take either.  The constant drum beat on this forum anyway is that the Rangers problems are the bottom 6.  The bottom 6 is a problem but why? It's a problem because it was built to be a problem.  This team is constructed as a top heavy team.  There is big money throughout paid to stars.  That left kids and misfits to fill out the bottom 6.  The stars are not performing.  They get their points on the power play but they are getting worked 5 on 5.  The problem with this team is the top 6, structure and desire.  Intensity is not Panarin, Kreider, Mika, Fox's strong suit.  None of them are going to mixed up for guys skating through a brick wall to win a game.  They are all passive players.  Highly skilled but extremely passive.  The only big money leader on this team that plays with emotion and grit is Trouba.  Yet he does so without hockey sense in a lot of ways.  This team is a reflection of their stars, like any team really.  They are skilled but they are unwilling/unable to out work or out will anybody.  Going to the net, playing tough defense, getting second chances, forechecking/backchecking, protecting their net, etc are all things that don't require elite skill yet they are all things this team does not do.  You cannot rely on your bottom 6 to be your only source of these things.  It has to be a complete team effort.  Those deficiencies are a direct reflection of the leaders on this team.  Some of them have to go.  It's just a bad mix

The thing that sucks is Laffy shows flashes of being that guy but the offense hasn't translated....yet. Who do we give up though? Miller and Kakko (our 2nd OA who is less shiny and exciting for other teams as the years tick by) are probably the most sought after attainable pieces we would be able to give up. We can't deal a center strictly due to our paper thin depth at that position. Neither Miller nor Kakko shed enough salary to acquire the player you describe and we need.

 

Kreider isn't going anywhere due to contract. Zib is our best offensive player aside from Panarin. So how do we do it?

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

I guess but people on here tend not to allow for either conversation when it comes to a guy like Fox.  Fox was playing bad hockey for him.  Points aside.  Panarin, Mika, Kreider, and Trouba have all struggled this year.  That doesn't make them bad players but ignoring that reality isn't a logical take either.  The constant drum beat on this forum anyway is that the Rangers problems are the bottom 6.  The bottom 6 is a problem but why? It's a problem because it was built to be a problem.  This team is constructed as a top heavy team.  There is big money throughout paid to stars.  That left kids and misfits to fill out the bottom 6.  The stars are not performing.  They get their points on the power play but they are getting worked 5 on 5.  The problem with this team is the top 6, structure and desire.  Intensity is not Panarin, Kreider, Mika, Fox's strong suit.  None of them are going to mixed up for guys skating through a brick wall to win a game.  They are all passive players.  Highly skilled but extremely passive.  The only big money leader on this team that plays with emotion and grit is Trouba.  Yet he does so without hockey sense in a lot of ways.  This team is a reflection of their stars, like any team really.  They are skilled but they are unwilling/unable to out work or out will anybody.  Going to the net, playing tough defense, getting second chances, forechecking/backchecking, protecting their net, etc are all things that don't require elite skill yet they are all things this team does not do.  You cannot rely on your bottom 6 to be your only source of these things.  It has to be a complete team effort.  Those deficiencies are a direct reflection of the leaders on this team.  Some of them have to go.  It's just a bad mix

I don't really disagree with a lot of this.

 

My point was just that, when you see a post saying "Fox is a joke on defense", that's going to get a certain response that's different from "Fox is having a tough stretch". One allows room for conversation, the other doesn't.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

I guess but people on here tend not to allow for either conversation when it comes to a guy like Fox.  Fox was playing bad hockey for him.  Points aside.  Panarin, Mika, Kreider, and Trouba have all struggled this year.  That doesn't make them bad players but ignoring that reality isn't a logical take either.  The constant drum beat on this forum anyway is that the Rangers problems are the bottom 6.  The bottom 6 is a problem but why? It's a problem because it was built to be a problem.  This team is constructed as a top heavy team.  There is big money throughout paid to stars.  That left kids and misfits to fill out the bottom 6.  The stars are not performing.  They get their points on the power play but they are getting worked 5 on 5.  The problem with this team is the top 6, structure and desire.  Intensity is not Panarin, Kreider, Mika, Fox's strong suit.  None of them are going to mixed up for guys skating through a brick wall to win a game.  They are all passive players.  Highly skilled but extremely passive.  The only big money leader on this team that plays with emotion and grit is Trouba.  Yet he does so without hockey sense in a lot of ways.  This team is a reflection of their stars, like any team really.  They are skilled but they are unwilling/unable to out work or out will anybody.  Going to the net, playing tough defense, getting second chances, forechecking/backchecking, protecting their net, etc are all things that don't require elite skill yet they are all things this team does not do.  You cannot rely on your bottom 6 to be your only source of these things.  It has to be a complete team effort.  Those deficiencies are a direct reflection of the leaders on this team.  Some of them have to go.  It's just a bad mix

 

I think there's a lot of this that nobody would disagree with, but there's only so much that can be changed for now roster-wise. That's why coaching is under the microscope.

 

Also, define "getting worked". They have 34 goals for at 5v5 and 35 goals against, which is basically a wash. This is the same as last year, except instead of the underlying stats suggesting they shouldn't have as many 5v5 goals as their opponent, it's suggesting they should have more.  I don't view this as getting worked, but I do view it as keeping them from being an upper echelon team. The margin between being where they are now and where they could be is small. They are quite literally 3-4 more goals away from 2nd in the Metro and 3rd in the conference, defensive warts and all.

 

 

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

They are quite literally 3-4 more goals away from 2nd in the Metro and 3rd in the conference,

How'd you come to that conclusion?

[BrooksBurner]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

How'd you come to that conclusion?

 

2 points back of the Canes for 2nd in Metro. 3 points back of the Maple Leafs for 3rd in Conference.

 

Wouldn't have taken much to flip 2 Ls into 2 Ws. They'd be at 26 points.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

2 points back of the Canes for 2nd in Metro. 3 points back of the Maple Leafs for 3rd in Conference.

 

Wouldn't have taken much to flip 2 Ls into 2 Ws. They'd be at 26 points.

That's a wildly optimistic take, but won't debate it.

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

That's a wildly optimistic take, but won't debate it.

 

It's not really borne out of optimism to be honest. Two games within the last two weeks where they out-everything'd their opponent except the scoredboard should have been relatively easy regulation wins. They wound up being regulation losses. Predators and Islanders.

 

It should be surprising how close they are to 2nd Metro, 3rd conference. Maybe every team just has their problems...aside from the Bruins and Devils who are on some serious heaters.

Edited November 22, 2022 by rmc51

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

It's not really borne out of optimism to be honest. Two games within the last two weeks where they out-everything'd their opponent except the scoredboard should have been relatively easy regulation wins. They wound up being regulation losses. Predators and Islanders.

 

It should be surprising how close they are to 2nd Metro, 3rd conference. Maybe every team just has their problems...aside from the Bruins and Devils who are on some serious heaters.

They are this year's analytics "exception to the rule". I watch the games (missed the west coast games this week, watched the condensed) but the on-ice product isn't saying what the fancy stats are.

 

We shall see.

[Br4d]

The on-ice play has been pretty dominant at times except for putting the puck in the net.

 

The game we just saw should have been 5-1 Rangers.  The Islanders game should have been 5-1 Rangers.  There've been a number of other games this season where the Rangers had the lion's share of the puck and the shots and either just squeaked by or lost inexplicably.

 

The backup goalie is like 0-5 largely due to this phenomenon.  Halak should have a couple of wins at this point in the season but he keeps getting these dominant Rangers games where they can't put the puck in the net.  The Rangers have scored 5 goals in his 5 starts while outshooting the opponent 175-139.

 

That's insane.  The opposing goalie has a 97.1 save percentage in his games.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Br4d

[RangersIn7]

On 11/22/2022 at 5:15 PM, Pete said:

They are this year's analytics "exception to the rule". I watch the games (missed the west coast games this week, watched the condensed) but the on-ice product isn't saying what the fancy stats are.

 

We shall see.

You wanna talk about Feline AIDS next, Mr. Positivity?

 

 

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

You wanna talk about Feline AIDS next, Mr. Positivity?

 

 

[RangersIn7]

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

Fantastic!

 

Just going for levity.

 

 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Vesey - Trocheck - Goodrow as the 2nd line. LOL

 

Just trade Kravtsov now if he’s not gonna get a look after that last game. Just tanking his value even further by healthy scratching him for so long. 

[Br4d]

30 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Vesey - Trocheck - Goodrow as the 2nd line. LOL

 

Just trade Kravtsov now if he’s not gonna get a look after that last game. Just tanking his value even further by healthy scratching him for so long. 

 

I might wonder why the kid line is not moved up to 2nd line in that lineup.

 

Vesey - Trocheck - Goodrow lines up pretty well as the third line.

[Pete]

30 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I might wonder why the kid line is not moved up to 2nd line in that lineup.

 

Vesey - Trocheck - Goodrow lines up pretty well as the third line.

I wouldn't read too much into that, they'll all be pretty close in TOI at ES. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Vesey - Trocheck - Goodrow as the 2nd line. LOL

 

Just trade Kravtsov now if he’s not gonna get a look after that last game. Just tanking his value even further by healthy scratching him for so long. 

It’s really just brutal. Knew this would happen with Vesey the moment he made the team. Gallant would attach to him and he’d get slotted up above a kid. And Vesey has been OK, better than I expected, but he’s not a top 9 guy at all. Drop him to 4th, bench Blais, put Kravtsov with Tro and Goody. It’s not that hard.

Edited November 25, 2022 by rmc51

[Scott]

Who knows they maybe trying to move Kravtsov and don't want to tank his value anymore than it already is by playing him and then he actually breaks in half on the ice?

Edited November 26, 2022 by jsrangers

[jsm7302]

8 hours ago, rmc51 said:

It’s really just brutal. Knew this would happen with Vesey the moment he made the team. Gallant would attach to him and he’d get slotted up above a kid. And Vesey has been OK, better than I expected, but he’s not a top 9 guy at all. Drop him to 4th, bench Blais, put Kravtsov with Tro and Goody. It’s not that hard.

I guess that could work but Kravtsov hasn't exactly looked good and has been hurt more than half of the season this far. I'm not sure I want him playing more than 10-12 min/night. Im ready to move on from that project. Send him to Arizona for anything.

[RangersIn7]

10 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

I guess that could work but Kravtsov hasn't exactly looked good and has been hurt more than half of the season this far. I'm not sure I want him playing more than 10-12 min/night. Im ready to move on from that project. Send him to Arizona for anything.

And that’s the issue. He’s not cut out to play 10-12 a night in a bottom-6 roll.

Whatever he shows, whatever he becomes, he’s an offensive guy and you’re going to have to play him that way and give him minutes to get production out of him. And if you put him in a reduced roll, you probably aren’t going to be happy with what you get.

 

He needs to be in a place where he can just play top-6 minutes somewhere for an extended stretch. That’s not here

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

And that’s the issue. He’s not cut out to play 10-12 a night in a bottom-6 roll.

Whatever he shows, whatever he becomes, he’s an offensive guy and you’re going to have to play him that way and give him minutes to get production out of him. And if you put him in a reduced roll, you probably aren’t going to be happy with what you get.

 

He needs to be in a place where he can just play top-6 minutes somewhere for an extended stretch. That’s not here

Agree. The Rangers are at a point where what has been working, is no longer. So don't go to the well, go for something new, which this lineup kinda is. 

 

AFAIC I'd be trying players who've never really played together. 

 

Lafreniere Zib Kravtsov

Panarin Chytil Gauthier

Kreider Trochek Kakko

Goodrow Carpenter Vesey 

[RangersIn7]

Just now, Pete said:

Agree. The Rangers are at a point where what has been working, is no longer. So don't go to the well, go for something new, which this lineup kinda is. 

 

AFAIC I'd be trying players who've never really played together. 

 

Lafreniere Zib Kravtsov

Panarin Chytil Gauthier

Kreider Trochek Kakko

Goodrow Carpenter Vesey 

I’m totally ok with the blender right now and trying new stuff.

 

The caveat though, is that, you’ve gotta do it for a minute. Not for a few shifts or a period or a couple of games. 
 

Im surprised we haven’t seen Chytil on the RW with Zib and Kreider. That looked good at times previously and I’d like to see a bigger sampling 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, RangersIn7 said:

I’m totally ok with the blender right now and trying new stuff.

 

The caveat though, is that, you’ve gotta do it for a minute. Not for a few shifts or a period or a couple of games. 
 

Im surprised we haven’t seen Chytil on the RW with Zib and Kreider. That looked good at times previously and I’d like to see a bigger sampling 

Agreed. Stick with the new stuff for just as long as you stuck with the stuff that isn't working. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Agree. The Rangers are at a point where what has been working, is no longer. So don't go to the well, go for something new, which this lineup kinda is. 

 

AFAIC I'd be trying players who've never really played together. 

 

Lafreniere Zib Kravtsov

Panarin Chytil Gauthier

Kreider Trochek Kakko

Goodrow Carpenter Vesey 

 

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Oh, and here's the rationale

 

Lafreniere Zib Kravtsov - Kind of like the KZB line with Krav as Buch-ish-like, Lafreniere more a straight line guy like Kreider, but with more offensive tools. 

 

Panarin Chytil Gauthier - Same, with Panarin playing that playmaker role on the LW, with Gauthier a Kreider-lite. 

 

Kreider Trochek Kakko - these wingers need a guy in the middle who's just gonna chuck shots. 

 

Goodrow Carpenter Vesey - whatever

[BrooksBurner]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

Oh, and here's the rationale

 

Lafreniere Zib Kravtsov - Kind of like the KZB line with Krav as Buch-ish-like, Lafreniere more a straight line guy like Kreider, but with more offensive tools. 

 

Panarin Chytil Gauthier - Same, with Panarin playing that playmaker role on the LW, with Gauthier a Kreider-lite. 

 

Kreider Trochek Kakko - these wingers need a guy in the middle who's just gonna chuck shots. 

 

Goodrow Carpenter Vesey - whatever

Yeah, I like. I’ve wanted to see Laf-Zib-Kakko forever so I’d consider swapping Kakko and Kravtsov, but good this way too. I’d also roll all 3 lines equally at even strength, but willing to play the hot hand in game