NYRangers723 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 For as bad as Sather's contracts were he normally found ways out of them. It could be worse. We could be worrying about recapture. except for girardi and staal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 except for girardi and staal. If you look back at the Staal contract thread, we were all pretty much in agreement that it was a good deal. He got clobbered by injuries, and defensemen salaries have not increased as we expected. I will also say that I dont think we've been in a terrible cap situation anytime over the last few seasons. And I'm a guy that thinks all players should make between 12-20$/hr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Has Miller ever made a linemate better? nope and his one goal in 40 playoff games is almost comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Both the proponents and detractors of this trade have valid points. Ultimately, for me, it's highly underwhelming. I'm trying to be cautious though to sort out emotion from sense. There are a couple of things at play here for me. First of all, anyone who knows me knows this is exactly what I wanted to happen after we insisted on going "all-in" every year for the past 5 years (personally, I wouldn't have gone "all-in" every year and continued to build from within). But here is my schizophrenic thinking on this: (1) For the people saying that Tampa is doing the right thing by having McDonagh be supporting cast instead of star player, you're absolutely right. Conversely, however, we did not acquire any game-breaking talent. So right now, unless something changes, we're fast-tracked for a similar progression. Good but not great prospects that make a solid team (assuming Shestyorkin is able to make them look good for years on end Henrik-style), talking ourselves in to buying every year as soon as we're a playoff team, inevitably swinging and missing, rinse and repeat. (2) I hate that Stevie Y is this adept at putting the screws to everyone, particularly us. He didn't budge an inch. I have a bit of a vendetta with this guy, in that he somehow talked Sather in to outbidding himself in the MSL trade, when this is the only place MSL wanted to go. I REALLY wanted to stick it to him in any deal. Some other time I guess. (3) Pretend for a moment you're a Tampa Bay fan. You're one of the clear Cup favorites, and swing a move like this where you get a solid young talent with grit and a team's best defenseman (by far) without touching any of your top prospects. If the tables were flipped, and this were us right now, we'd be shouting Gorton's name in the streets, shooting fireworks and throwing him a parade. Somehow getting the biggest name (aside from Karlsson) on deadline day and not meaningfully impacting your team's future in doing so. That's a master stroke. (4) On the other side of the coin, the people who are objectively valuing McD and Miller as compared to the rest of the league (instead of ascribing the inflated value we give them because of the roles they had to assume on this team due to a dearth of surrounding talent) are absolutely right. One year of a not-quite-the-same defenseman (before he hits the FA) and a locker room malcontent isn't going to fetch you Connor McDavid, or even Leon Draisaitl. McD was trending down, and Miller (for whatever reason, though personally I really liked his game and thought he could be something special) clearly wasn't going to make it here. Just because TSN listed McDonagh as the number one trade target after Karlsson doesn't mean that he's worth another team's best prospect. Market value is whatever someone is willing to pay. We clearly took it down to the wire to make sure every offer was in, and we made a decision. Until proven otherwise, I'll assume we knew what we were doing value-wise. (5) That being said, there was no requirement to make a move today. We could've waited until the draft. Who knows if the value would've been better or worse. And I'm sure if we DID wait, there would be an untold amount of people on here going, "HOW COULD YOU NOT MOVE MCDONAGH NOW I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!" But if we were operating against some self-imposed timer, we dropped the ball big time by doing so. Again, no necessity to make the move today. (6) Also, some might disagree with me, but I for one think this team is pretty solid at drafting. That's why I would always rail against the idea of trading draft picks. Even if the mid first-rounder only turns in to Kreider, Miller or Skjei, having a player of that caliber at a cost-controlled price is valuable no matter what way you slice it. Even if they don't become permanent roster fixtures, they're still valuable trade targets. And we've proven adept at finding later round talent too. This team having more draft picks is encouraging for me. I, for one, feel like our scouting staff does a pretty damn good job. I just don't agree with the assessment that we'll go from dead last in terms of futures to first place by the end of the 2018 draft because, again, no elite talent. Ain't nobody gonna get fooled in to thinking we're the NHL's next powerhouse with a roster full of B+ talents. Long story short: I'm torn, and obviously we won't know enough until it pans out. I'm aware my views are entirely inconsistent and downright bipolar. I go back and forth. I just remember after the Leetch trade how desperately we tried to trick ourselves in to thinking it was a good return. He's on the back-end of his career, we got a first round pick out of it, Jarkko Immonen and Maxim Kondratiev are solid prospects, etc. If this trade shakes out where Hajek = Kondratiev, Howden = Immonen, and we turn that 1st in to Lauri Korpikoski, we're all gonna be pretty pissed off. I'd give our trade deadline performance overall a B+, with today's trade weighing in with a B-. Great post what's done is done and we aren't going to really be able to fairly judge the result any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 By tomorrow I’m moving on and I’ll be excited for the draft. I’m all for the rebuild but mcd was the best player by a mile moved today. Is he hedman, god no, but that’s not the point. What teams got for statsny and tartar does mater because it reflects players worth at the minute of this deal. Hopefully we hit paydirt with these kids. All those picks are very exciting yet all but 1 of the 2018’s we already owned before today’s trade I’m disappointed but what’s done is done. Doesn’t matter now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I can at very least say this: I'm excited about the Rangers again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I have to ask. Where is the evidence of miller being a locker room cancer? I’m just curious because I follow every game and everything I can written and said about the rangers and I never heard that. I know he has a fiery personality and he’s not the smartest player or a fast study. But I never heard other players say anything negative or ever heard he was a malcontent. I’m curious where that sentiment is coming from. I’m not saying it’s not true. I honestly don’t know but would like to hear about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myusername Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Looking at Foote's stats I can see why people wanted him over Howden With that said, we have three 1st round picks in one of the deepest drafts in a while... and the Rangers will likely have one in the top 5 or just outside of it. We'll have a chance to draft the elite talent we didn't quite get through trading. I think we're in good shape honestly. I'm kind of glad we kept Zucc... I didn't want to dismantle the entire core. Nash and Grabner may very well be back here next season. I'm excited... even if just because we're going to see something different from what we're used to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I have to ask. Where is the evidence of miller being a locker room cancer? I’m just curious because I follow every game and everything I can written and said about the rangers and I never heard that. I know he has a fiery personality and he’s not the smartest player or a fast study. But I never heard other players say anything negative or ever heard he was a malcontent. I’m curious where that sentiment is coming from. I’m not saying it’s not true. I honestly don’t know but would like to hear about it Not all reports come with hard evidence like this. You don't have to believe Mikey, or NYR2711, but given Mikey, in particular, has a proven history regarding his sources and connections to the team, I for one believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Yes, but both teams are poised for playoff runs. Especially Moose Jaw. So they will keep playing in the WHL this season? Not really in to all this college/junior hockey thing, so don't know how this works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 The problem is sergachev is deemed untouchable, then point, then Foote. Oh and no roster players but you can have Namestnikov. The rangers were trading a top defenseman wanted by multiple teams. They threw in a 24 year old who everybody thinks sucks yet is one of their leading scorers the past three years. It?s ok for Gorton to say fine then we will pass until you?re willing to trade something that hurts too. I think the haul is ok but just ok. There is nothing coming back that is guarneteed core going forward. Maybe this will end up being a home run maybe a bust. It just seems like Yzerman dictates extactly the deal he wanted and we took nothing that hurt. Namestikov does not excite me at all. I?d rather he not be something of value coming to us. The rangers are going to negotiate a contract with this guy based on numbers put up with Stamkos and Kucherov as his line mates? How do you even determine what he?ll be without playing with superstars? What do you pay him? Sather will probably give him 7x6m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I think we did reasonably well. I'm personally happy with Namestnikov replacing Miller. It's obviously a bit of a lottery with the kids, but from what I've seen and heard so far these 2 are proper high end prospects. You look at Howden, a big, goalscoring center. TB's first pick in 2016. Put up 46 points as a 16 year old rookie in the WHL. Averaged a point/game in the following season. Then in the following 2 seasons has ppg rate that puts him in and around the top 10 pointscorers in the WHL. Captain of his team. Seems like a very, very solid prospect to me. The same goes for Hajek. I guess the argument is whether we should've been able to get prospects closer to being NHL ready. And maybe we should. But I don't think we need to knock the prospects we did get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Anyone wanna bet on how Miller does in the playoffs? 1 goal in 40 games as a Ranger. I think he will score 10+ for Tampa this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thes5 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I'm fine with this rebuild. The previous strategy of trading away draft picks got the team into this situation. The rebuild will be complete when one of the goalie prospects steps up and takes the starting job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Not all reports come with hard evidence like this. You don't have to believe Mikey, or NYR2711, but given Mikey, in particular, has a proven history regarding his sources and connections to the team, I for one believe him. Well mcd is quoted on saying miller going with him was a sweetener for him in being traded. Unless mcd is lying I don’t think he would say that if miller was such a cancer. So there is nothing but anonymous sources that have never been reported by any person covering the nhl or team? Who are the sources? I know Dan Boyle was brought up at one point. Probably the biggest hot head to wear a ranger jersey and if he wasn’t yelling at reporters he might have been yelling at miller. That can be more of a indictment on Boyle’s temper than miller. Finally there is no more demonstrative player in the league than hank. And his teammates have never said boo. I see how this works but the whole idea of giving away miller on here is based upon a belief that he’s a malcontent. There is not one iota of evidence around that claim. I don’t doubt he has his sources but maybe it’s somebody within the organization who dislikes miller. Maybe even a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers723 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Well mcd is quoted on saying miller going with him was a sweetener for him in being traded. Unless mcd is lying I don?t think he would say that if miller was such a cancer. So there is nothing but anonymous sources that have never been reported by any person covering the nhl or team? Who are the sources? I know Dan Boyle was brought up at one point. Probably the biggest hot head to wear a ranger jersey and if he wasn?t yelling at reporters he might have been yelling at miller. That can be more of a indictment on Boyle?s temper than miller. Finally there is no more demonstrative player in the league than hank. And his teammates have never said boo. I see how this works but the whole idea of giving away miller on here is based upon a belief that he?s a malcontent. There is not one iota of evidence around that claim. I don?t doubt he has his sources but maybe it?s somebody within the organization who dislikes miller. Maybe even a player. Not sure why its such a issue for you. Im not saying miller was a cancer but he has definetly had issues our past 2 coaches have even admitted that. I dont think thats why he was traded but im sure there is some small part of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Issues developing sure. Issues within the Locker room never heard of it. Read the posts here them taking miller was put like they were doing is a favor. Or “we had to get rid of him”. Why is this an issue for me? Because justifying this trade based of a made up narrative that miller was worthless is flat out wrong. Today is a new day and I’m moving on. The trade is done. I was hoping there was actual proof to the poster after poster regurgitating the crap about miller. This is what’s “comical.” Lol lol. There is nothing but a poster on here with “sources” that led to this narrative. Some people believe anything they read on the internet and this is proof of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 You would think we were trading Evander Kane or Sean Avery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers723 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 You would think we were trading Evander Kane or Sean Avery Jesus let it go dude. Its not the reason we traded him. However there are valid points people have made whether you like it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Issues developing sure. Issues within the Locker room never heard of it. Read the posts here them taking miller was put like they were doing is a favor. Or “we had to get rid of him”. Why is this an issue for me? Because justifying this trade based of a made up narrative that miller was worthless is flat out wrong. Today is a new day and I’m moving on. The trade is done. I was hoping there was actual proof to the poster after poster regurgitating the crap about miller. This is what’s “comical.” Lol lol. There is nothing but a poster on here with “sources” that led to this narrative. Some people believe anything they read on the internet and this is proof of that. No one said he was worthless. In fact, I think he’s a good player and probably has more room to be better and more consistent. Currently, I believe Namestnikov is better than Miller, not by miles, but better. It remains to be seen what he can do here, and what Miller will do in Tampa. Getting 2 good prospects, a first, and a conditional 2nd for McDonagh is a good return. McD was a warrior here. Is he an elite NHL talent? Debatable. In addition, he’s played A LOT of hockey here in the last 8 years. Do we want to give him a 5-6 year deal carrying him to 33 y/o? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers723 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 No one said he was worthless. In fact, I think he’s a good player and probably has more room to be better and more consistent. Currently, I believe Namestnikov is better than Miller, not by miles, but better. It remains to be seen what he can do here, and what Miller will do in Tampa. Getting 2 good prospects, a first, and a conditional 2nd for McDonagh is a good return. McD was a warrior here. Is he an elite NHL talent? Debatable. In addition, he’s played A LOT of hockey here in the last 8 years. Do we want to give him a 5-6 year deal carrying him to 33 y/o? this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Jesus let it go dude. Its not the reason we traded him. However there are valid points people have made whether you like it or not Call out the bullshit and then be told to let it go. No problem will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers723 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Call out the bullshit and then be told to let it go. No problem will do. i can feel for you i know you are a big JT miller fan but in the end he was the odd man out with hayes and now spooner and namestikov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 From someone I know, he said Miller was an issue in the locker room, so that might be one of the reasons he was moved. They say his attitude changed last year and was becoming a big issue this year behind the scenes. The guy I know works with the team, so I can’t say who he is. This is the start of it and it’s not mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Tend to agree with you based on a couple of things: 1) he's rarely if ever featured in Rangers PR promotional segments despite being home grown 2) the interaction with D.Boyle a few years ago where Dan basically "son'd" him and put him in his corner as the whole team sat and watched when Miller suggested a boneheaded decision 3) I haven't seen much of an off-ice relationship with other players, again, despite coming through the system. Even Skjei hangs out with Hayes/Vesey, Buch with Kreider/Zib, Zucc with everyone, you get it. Then to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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