Ryan McDonagh, J.T. Miller Headed to the Lightning

[Fatfrancesa]

it definetly was not a poor trade. If you think we were better off with a different piece thats fair BUT the return was not poor at all not even close

 

Maybe I’m wrong. I want to see it. So break it down what we think mcd is worth? Tartar a 1,2,3. Stastny a 1,4 and a decent prospect.

 

I’m guessing the return for mcd is the two picks and the two prospects? Miller for Namestnikov?

[Dunny]

McDonagh may be on their second pairing, but will be out there against the opponents top line. More than likely partner with Stralman, but maybe Serg.

 

Trade itself stinks of Sather. I'm not saying it will be a bad deal in the end, but I do wish we did a better job negotiating with Yzerman.

Good luck to McDonagh in Tampa. Hope the guy gets himself a Cup this or next year.

 

Sather what? Like Sather Jagr for Anson fuckin Carter? Or Sather Scott Gomez for the very guy we're flipping for half our next generation? What is this Sather stink?

 

We just had a decade of ridiculous fun, invented out of thin air, because of who?

 

I get his first few years were a trainwreck, but that's pretty much the only blemish in what, 40 years of this shit?

[Scott]

So Stralman is a better defenseman now. On what planet? Stralman is very good but Ryan McDonagh was the bedrock of this defense core here throughout all the success here. Outside of hank mcd was their best player by a lot. Now today Anton Stralman is better. Do people really forget how good mcd was here? I don’t want to pay him either but would Anton Stralman be so good paired with Holden instead of hedman?

 

Nope he's not just stated what the "experts" were speculating all afternoon once the deal was done. The caveat was unless you play McD on his off side.

[Ba Ba Bluey]

Sather what? Like Sather Jagr for Anson fuckin Carter? Or Sather Scott Gomez for the very guy we're flipping for half our next generation? What is this Sather stink?

 

We just had a decade of ridiculous fun, invented out of thin air, because of who?

I get his first few years were a trainwreck, but that's pretty much the only blemish in what, 40 years of this shit?

 

[Fatfrancesa]

miller hasnt exactly had many big playoff moments. Obviously you are a big miller fan which is fine and Although he showed some good flashes he was too inconsistent especially in his own zone

 

I’m not a huge fan of miller. I don’t hate him either. If your trying to rebuild with youth we’ll miller fits that bill. He’s 24 putting up 50plus points with plenty of room to grow. He’s never had a good center and his coach has always hated him and they never let him grow into any position. He’s all over the roster. I would think he would be a guy you build around or at least trade for somebody else to build around. Maybe I’m crazy but if Howden becomes as good as miller 3 years from now we will be very happy. Miller is proven to some degree what we got back is not. Even Namestikov, is he good or a by product of two world class players. Miller has better numbers the past three years and he’s not riding shot gun to anyone.

 

Regardless it seems to me miller would fetch more in a separate deal if tartar making 5.3m and a ntc starting next year gets a 1,2,3.

[ThirtyONE]

So Stralman is a better defenseman now. On what planet? Stralman is very good but Ryan McDonagh was the bedrock of this defense core here throughout all the success here. Outside of hank mcd was their best player by a lot. Now today Anton Stralman is better. Do people really forget how good mcd was here? I don’t want to pay him either but would Anton Stralman be so good paired with Holden instead of hedman?

 

Mac is going to be on their 2nd pair. He just is. I don't care how good he was on the Rangers, the Rangers suck. He's not an elite defender. He's very good. Hedman is the man over there, not Mac.

 

It sucks to lose him but guess what, things are changing. Agree or disagree with the trade, it's done. They now have 3 1st round picks, which is wild, and the ability to move into the top 5 to draft a bonafide star. 2014 was 4 years ago. Time to try a new direction.

[thes5]

Sather what? Like Sather Jagr for Anson fuckin Carter? Or Sather Scott Gomez for the very guy we're flipping for half our next generation? What is this Sather stink?

 

We just had a decade of ridiculous fun, invented out of thin air, because of who?

 

I get his first few years were a trainwreck, but that's pretty much the only blemish in what, 40 years of this shit?

 

Hockey is fun. I enjoy watching it, especially my team. But, the goal of any organization is the Cup, and Sather hasn't delivered. Please don't give me the McDonagh trade bullshit because he wasn't the centerpiece and it is doubtful Sather had any idea what he was getting. He has also made a number of dumbass moves that never worked out and mortgaged the future. It would have been acceptable if a Cup was delivered. What is this "fun" you are talking about?

[Long live the King]

Why do people take such offense to agreeing with the direction of the team. Thinking that Nash and grabner trades were good ones but thinking trading a legit top pair defenseman and a 24 year old who is one of your leading scores and both under contract so not rentals puts you in a position to demand one if the five prospects they deemed off limits. Sure Tampa could say no but they are the ones needing the trade today. Surely there were good deals to be made at the draft if need be. We are all reading scouting reports so no nobody knows these guys as well as we know the guys in the league. What I do know is that Tampa wouldn’t give us sergachev, point, Foote. Did they say no to katchook and radissyh too or was that our call?

 

What’s amazing is that as of 3pm today mcd is a washed up overrated mush head and miller is a cancer. Where the hell did that come from? Why does everybody seem to want them and why did tampa decide to add them to an already top team with sights on the cup? We will not know how this trade pans out for years. I’m not basing my opinion on that.

 

Again Nash gets a first, a decent roster player and a decent prospect and he’s a pure rental

 

Mcd and miller are not rentals and they get the same plus a good prospect and a conditional first/second. Am I missing something?

 

It’s not a complaining. I like most of what they did here I just think the last trade was poor. Adding miller into this deal makes no sense to me. What would the deal have looked like with no miller? Would that mean no Namestnikov, that would seem like good value for mcd.

 

We also retained 50% of Nash's salary and took a bad contract in return.

[Dunny]

 

I lol'd

 

good one

[NYRangers723]

Maybe I’m wrong. I want to see it. So break it down what we think mcd is worth? Tartar a 1,2,3. Stastny a 1,4 and a decent prospect.

 

I’m guessing the return for mcd is the two picks and the two prospects? Miller for Namestnikov?

 

fucking forget about tartar and stasty. We got a first rounder, bowden who was a first rounder, and hajek who was a early 2nd rounder who many felt should of went in Round 1. Miller and namestikov kinda cancel eachother out and you can add the conditional first. Seriously buddy if you think thats a shit return then i dont know what to tell you

[Long live the King]

Tomas tartar 407 games 222 points

Miller 341 games 172 points

 

Tartar 5.3m 3 or 4 more years with a ntc kicking in next year

Miller 2.8m going into rfa this summer

Miller has outscored him the last two years and is younger and better suited for playoff hockey

 

Miller has 1 goal in 40 playoff games

[Dunny]

Hockey is fun. I enjoy watching it, especially my team. But, the goal of any organization is the Cup, and Sather hasn't delivered. Please don't give me the McDonagh trade bullshit because he wasn't the centerpiece and it is doubtful Sather had any idea what he was getting. He has also made a number of dumbass moves that never worked out and mortgaged the future. It would have been acceptable if a Cup was delivered. What is this "fun" you are talking about?

 

A shit tonne of playoff hockey?

 

That's all I asked for during the darkest days of the troubles. We got it.

[NYRangers723]

I’m not a huge fan of miller. I don’t hate him either. If your trying to rebuild with youth we’ll miller fits that bill. He’s 24 putting up 50plus points with plenty of room to grow. He’s never had a good center and his coach has always hated him and they never let him grow into any position. He’s all over the roster. I would think he would be a guy you build around or at least trade for somebody else to build around. Maybe I’m crazy but if Howden becomes as good as miller 3 years from now we will be very happy. Miller is proven to some degree what we got back is not. Even Namestikov, is he good or a by product of two world class players. Miller has better numbers the past three years and he’s not riding shot gun to anyone.

 

Regardless it seems to me miller would fetch more in a separate deal if tartar making 5.3m and a ntc starting next year gets a 1,2,3.

 

seems like you are overvaluing miller a tiny bit lol

[Dunny]

Miller has 1 goal in 40 playoff games

 

it's almost so bad it has to be a fluke.

 

Honestly, you or I would likely have the same, or more, given the same ice time.

[josh]

Has Miller ever made a linemate better?

[Drew a Penalty]

Hockey is fun. I enjoy watching it, especially my team. But, the goal of any organization is the Cup, and Sather hasn't delivered. Please don't give me the McDonagh trade bullshit because he wasn't the centerpiece and it is doubtful Sather had any idea what he was getting. He has also made a number of dumbass moves that never worked out and mortgaged the future. It would have been acceptable if a Cup was delivered. What is this "fun" you are talking about?

 

No one was higher on McDonagh than the Rangers at the time of the Gomez trade. He was a former first round pick. He was an absolutely known commodity. It's been reported a million times that the Canadiens didn't rate him as highly.

 

I love the fascination with discrediting anything Sather did.

[Dunny]

Has Miller ever made a linemate better?

 

Hard to say, we had 9 2nd liners at one point. One as interchangable as the next.

[Drew a Penalty]

fucking forget about tartar and stasty. We got a first rounder, bowden who was a first rounder, and hajek who was a early 2nd rounder who many felt should of went in Round 1. Miller and namestikov kinda cancel eachother out and you can add the conditional first. Seriously buddy if you think thats a shit return then i dont know what to tell you

 

Cool it.

[Dunny]

No one was higher on McDonagh than the Rangers at the time of the Gomez trade. He was a former first round pick. He was an absolutely known commodity. It's been reported a million times that the Canadiens didn't rate him as highly.

 

I love the fascination with discrediting anything Sather did.

 

He built a legitimate contender with a 7th round pick and five guys off the scrap heap that nobody even wanted in Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Rucinsky and Rozsival.That's pretty impressive.

 

 

 

Granted, it was about his 4th try.

[NYRangers723]

Cool it.

 

im cool...it was a joke dude

[josh]

He built a legitimate contender with a 7th round pick and five guys off the scrap heap that nobody even wanted in Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Rucinsky and Rozsival.That's pretty impressive.

 

 

 

Granted, it was about his 4th try.

 

Thankfully, he was able to sell Steve Rucchin on coming to NY.

[Drew a Penalty]

He built a legitimate contender with a 7th round pick and five guys off the scrap heap that nobody even wanted in Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Rucinsky and Rozsival.That's pretty impressive.

 

 

 

Granted, it was about his 4th try.

 

Yeah. Sather wasn't a perfect GM, but there's a perception that some have that makes him seem like Milbury's equivalent. He built a team that went to the Stanley Cup finals and was competitive for a few years. For every bad deal he at least had a good one.

 

The funny thing is that I bet that some of the same people who hated Sather so much probably aren't fans of the rebuild. You just can't be good these days without being bad for a little bit.

[Ranger Lothbrok]

Both the proponents and detractors of this trade have valid points. Ultimately, for me, it's highly underwhelming. I'm trying to be cautious though to sort out emotion from sense. There are a couple of things at play here for me. First of all, anyone who knows me knows this is exactly what I wanted to happen after we insisted on going "all-in" every year for the past 5 years (personally, I wouldn't have gone "all-in" every year and continued to build from within). But here is my schizophrenic thinking on this:

 

(1) For the people saying that Tampa is doing the right thing by having McDonagh be supporting cast instead of star player, you're absolutely right. Conversely, however, we did not acquire any game-breaking talent. So right now, unless something changes, we're fast-tracked for a similar progression. Good but not great prospects that make a solid team (assuming Shestyorkin is able to make them look good for years on end Henrik-style), talking ourselves in to buying every year as soon as we're a playoff team, inevitably swinging and missing, rinse and repeat.

 

(2) I hate that Stevie Y is this adept at putting the screws to everyone, particularly us. He didn't budge an inch. I have a bit of a vendetta with this guy, in that he somehow talked Sather in to outbidding himself in the MSL trade, when this is the only place MSL wanted to go. I REALLY wanted to stick it to him in any deal. Some other time I guess.

 

(3) Pretend for a moment you're a Tampa Bay fan. You're one of the clear Cup favorites, and swing a move like this where you get a solid young talent with grit and a team's best defenseman (by far) without touching any of your top prospects. If the tables were flipped, and this were us right now, we'd be shouting Gorton's name in the streets, shooting fireworks and throwing him a parade. Somehow getting the biggest name (aside from Karlsson) on deadline day and not meaningfully impacting your team's future in doing so. That's a master stroke.

 

(4) On the other side of the coin, the people who are objectively valuing McD and Miller as compared to the rest of the league (instead of ascribing the inflated value we give them because of the roles they had to assume on this team due to a dearth of surrounding talent) are absolutely right. One year of a not-quite-the-same defenseman (before he hits the FA) and a locker room malcontent isn't going to fetch you Connor McDavid, or even Leon Draisaitl. McD was trending down, and Miller (for whatever reason, though personally I really liked his game and thought he could be something special) clearly wasn't going to make it here. Just because TSN listed McDonagh as the number one trade target after Karlsson doesn't mean that he's worth another team's best prospect. Market value is whatever someone is willing to pay. We clearly took it down to the wire to make sure every offer was in, and we made a decision. Until proven otherwise, I'll assume we knew what we were doing value-wise.

 

(5) That being said, there was no requirement to make a move today. We could've waited until the draft. Who knows if the value would've been better or worse. And I'm sure if we DID wait, there would be an untold amount of people on here going, "HOW COULD YOU NOT MOVE MCDONAGH NOW I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!" But if we were operating against some self-imposed timer, we dropped the ball big time by doing so. Again, no necessity to make the move today.

 

(6) Also, some might disagree with me, but I for one think this team is pretty solid at drafting. That's why I would always rail against the idea of trading draft picks. Even if the mid first-rounder only turns in to Kreider, Miller or Skjei, having a player of that caliber at a cost-controlled price is valuable no matter what way you slice it. Even if they don't become permanent roster fixtures, they're still valuable trade targets. And we've proven adept at finding later round talent too. This team having more draft picks is encouraging for me. I, for one, feel like our scouting staff does a pretty damn good job. I just don't agree with the assessment that we'll go from dead last in terms of futures to first place by the end of the 2018 draft because, again, no elite talent. Ain't nobody gonna get fooled in to thinking we're the NHL's next powerhouse with a roster full of B+ talents.

 

Long story short: I'm torn, and obviously we won't know enough until it pans out. I'm aware my views are entirely inconsistent and downright bipolar. I go back and forth. I just remember after the Leetch trade how desperately we tried to trick ourselves in to thinking it was a good return. He's on the back-end of his career, we got a first round pick out of it, Jarkko Immonen and Maxim Kondratiev are solid prospects, etc. If this trade shakes out where Hajek = Kondratiev, Howden = Immonen, and we turn that 1st in to Lauri Korpikoski, we're all gonna be pretty pissed off.

 

I'd give our trade deadline performance overall a B+, with today's trade weighing in with a B-.

[NYRangers723]

Yeah. Sather wasn't a perfect GM, but there's a perception that some have that makes him seem like Milbury's equivalent. He built a team that went to the Stanley Cup finals and was competitive for a few years. For every bad deal he at least had a good one.

 

The funny thing is that I bet that some of the same people who hated Sather so much probably aren't fans of the rebuild. You just can't be good these days without being bad for a little bit.

 

my biggest issue with sather was the bad contracts he gave to UFA that were clearly beginning to decline. Although i also give him credit for good moves he made

[Drew a Penalty]

For as bad as Sather's contracts were he normally found ways out of them. It could be worse. We could be worrying about recapture.