Albatrosss Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said: Ten years ago Q won 8 years ago. so what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 22 minutes ago, CCCP said: Q won 8 years ago. so what? I'd argue the team Q won with is a lot more talented and a lot similar to our roster structure than the one Sutter won with, along with style of gameplay each coach prefers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said: I'd argue the team Q won with is a lot more talented and a lot similar to our roster structure than the one Sutter won with, along with style of gameplay each coach prefers. so Sutter got more out of and won with a less talented roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Just now, CCCP said: so Sutter got more out of and won with a less talented roster. Correct. So maybe when we trade Panarin and hire Sutter it'll be a double win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Cash or Czech said: Correct. So maybe when we trade Panarin and hire Sutter it'll be a double win. or maybe he could make Panarin into a PPG player in the playoffs? btw, i didnt know you were in the "trade Panarin" camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, CCCP said: or maybe he could make Panarin into a PPG player in the playoffs? btw, i didnt know you were in the "trade Panarin" camp. I'm not, but I think Pete's in a great mood today and we can't have that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 4:37 PM, Phil said: Except that this is easily refuted by pointing to the last two Cup-winning head coaches in Jared Bednar and Jon Cooper, both of whom were winning AHL coaches who were promoted and turned their NHL clubs into winners, too. Keefe and Knoblauch aren't remotely comparable in this scenario, and I don't want Keefe, either. I was referring to Keefe and then Eakins, as they have done nothing but lose or fail in the 1st round of the playoffs with amazing talents. Both have done somewhat well coaching in the AHL. Knoblauch hasn't. (finishing 4th, 2nd, 7th, and 5th in the Atlantic this season) At. All. Wanna give him a pass for 2 covid seasons? Ok. Still. 4th and 5th (13th overall in the league) in their divisions. I'm not understanding what he's done to have anyone gushing about the job he's done. It's certainly not his AHL record. Are people really thinking there's some kind of connection with McDavid? Like he had anything to do with that kid being a generational talent? He's developed nothing for the Rangers in 4 years. Infact 2 prospects wanted the fuck out of the organization if they had to go to Hartford. I really don't get it. Lets not reinvent the wheel here. We don't need or have the time to try to make the next Jon Cooper. We need someone that demands this roster of underachieving pussies to respect what the coach implements as a system and know their role. I can't see anyone on this roster taking a non winning (4 years straight in the AHL, where all you need is established AHL vets and maybe some decent prospects to do well.) AHL coach seriously or respectfully. I pass big time on Knoblauch. We've seen what Keefe is capable of. Neither are fits right now. If they rebuild? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 23 hours ago, jsrangers said: Ranger luck... They wouldn't give permission, or this would be a year Sullivan wants to sit back and be with the family.... Then take a job with the Isles or Devils the following year after the Rangers decide to go with Knoblauch, who fails and they have to blow up the organization from top down. Then making PK Subban president and GM. Don't miss the boat again. Laviolette is the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Phil said: Small thread from Emily Kaplan's interview on Vince Mercogliano's podcast here: She specifically mentions Knoblauch, who she handicaps at the top of the list, as well as Jay Leach, Ryan Warsofsky, and Andrew Brunette. We're listening to Emily Kaplans takes? God help us. I think (hope) these names are the actual smoke. A tactic to get the bigger names to step forward and ask for the job and maybe do it for less than their expected salary should be, because these other schmoes will do it for a lot less. "Nah Pete, we like this young go getter who has a shitty AHL coaching record. Oh yeahhh. He's just what we're looking for. We're on the same page as far as what we want to produce on the ice..... what? Noooo. Noooo we don't want to finish 5th in our division and 13th overall... we want to win the cup.. Huh? What? Noooo. Nooooo we WANT to develop young players.. I mean this guy will take 800k a season to do the job... You're asking for 3 mill.. I dunno man, we'll call you back if we are interested in your really fucking good success rate at the pro level with mixed rosters. But I mean this Knoblauch guy is great. 13th over alll in the AHL this year... He coached McDavid in jrs ya know... Hello? Hello?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Drew a Penalty said: I hate that I have to say this every time there's any kind of vacancy... Messier is not an option. He won a cup with this team nearly 30 years ago as a player. Not a coach. Not a GM. As a player. In the 30 years since he won the cup as a player for the Rangers, he has done absolutely nothing to warrant any sort of coaching or executive position. Despite throwing his own name into contention, he has demonstrated zero willingness to actually earn any of the positions he wants. He's been an assistant coach at a peewee tournament. That is it. They made up a Special Assistant to the GM position for him to feel like he contributed to the organization. If he ever had a shot at GM or president of the organization, he'd follow a track like Drury and Gorton who both rose from Player Development to then Assistant GM and so forth. There's nothing that qualifies Messier as a coach. He's known as a leader. That's his rep. That's it. He's not a progressive thinker, a known strategist, or something that gives this team the coaching edge that it's been missing. He's a guy who won a cup 30 years ago as a player and that's all he'll ever do for this organization. He did his job. Be thankful for that. But he's not going to do anything else. He's a Mickey Mouse fantasy option for any legitimate position. You're not wrong. But hasn't this happened with other teams? In recent years a lot of former players are fast tracked up ladders. Maybe a year or 2 as some player development title, but a year later they are NHL GMs or assistant GMs. A quick look at the list of current GMs, these guys hadn't really done much to jump into a GM role Verbeek, Yzerman, Blake, Fitzgerald, Drury, Guerin, and Grier all spent little time doing much of anything before they were pushed to the GM spot. Marty St Louis walked on as a coach this past season and I'm pretty sure there are a few others over the past decade to do the same (Gretzky and Roy come to mind). I can see Messier walking on as a coach or in a GM role somewhere. I can understand that the first thought is, "if he was going to do that, he'd have done that already." But I think Mess didn't age as fast after his career was over. Kinda like he wanted to just chill and do whatever. As he started fading into the darkness, it seems like he's got more interest in the fame and speaks a bit more frequently about his opinion, instead of slinging legends hockey cliches. Do I want Messier as coach? Not really. Do I think it's possible with Dolan as the owner? Absolutely. I wouldn't say Messier will never be an actual NHL coach or executive. Some team may be able to lure him, just for the name alone. Rangers included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Dude said: Verbeek, Yzerman, Blake, Fitzgerald, Drury, Guerin, and Grier all spent little time doing much of anything before they were pushed to the GM spot. Marty St Louis walked on as a coach this past season and I'm pretty sure there are a few others over the past decade to do the same (Gretzky and Roy come to mind). They all spent little time doing much of anything? Verbeek had 4 years as a scout, 2 years as director of scouting, and 8 years as an AGM. Yzerman had 4 years as VP of hockey operations. Blake had 4 years as VP of hockey operations and AHL affiliate GM. Fitzgerald had 2 years as director of player development, 11 as an AGM and GM of AHL affiliate. Drury had a year as director of player development, 5 as an AGM and GM of AHL affiliate. Guerin had 3 years as a development coach, and 5 years as an AGM. Grier had 4 years as a scout, 3 as an assistant coach, and 1 as hockey operations coordinator. Roy had 7 seasons as a head coach, and also served as GM and AGM throughout his time with Quebec. St. Louis at least served a skills coach at the NHL level. Gretzky is the greatest player of all time and had ownership stake in the Coyotes. Everyone listed had an actual job with actual responsibilities. Messier was special assistant to the GM. There's no actual weight to that role. Did you actually look any of these people up? 1 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said: They all spent little time doing much of anything? Verbeek had 4 years as a scout, 2 years as director of scouting, and 8 years as an AGM. Yzerman had 4 years as VP of hockey operations. Blake had 4 years as VP of hockey operations and AHL affiliate GM. Fitzgerald had 2 years as director of player development, 11 as an AGM and GM of AHL affiliate. Drury had a year as director of player development, 5 as an AGM and GM of AHL affiliate. Guerin had 3 years as a development coach, and 5 years as an AGM. Grier had 4 years as a scout, 3 as an assistant coach, and 1 as hockey operations coordinator. Roy had 7 seasons as a head coach, and also served as GM and AGM throughout his time with Quebec. St. Louis at least served a skills coach at the NHL level. Gretzky is the greatest player of all time and had ownership stake in the Coyotes. Everyone listed had an actual job with actual responsibilities. Messier was special assistant to the GM. There's no actual weight to that role. Did you actually look any of these people up? LMAO Messier on his resume right now after Gallant firing: Edited May 10, 2023 by BrooksBurner 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Yep probably reaching out to George Santos school of resume writing as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said: They all spent little time doing much of anything? Verbeek had 4 years as a scout, 2 years as director of scouting, and 8 years as an AGM. Yzerman had 4 years as VP of hockey operations. Blake had 4 years as VP of hockey operations and AHL affiliate GM. Fitzgerald had 2 years as director of player development, 11 as an AGM and GM of AHL affiliate. Drury had a year as director of player development, 5 as an AGM and GM of AHL affiliate. Guerin had 3 years as a development coach, and 5 years as an AGM. Grier had 4 years as a scout, 3 as an assistant coach, and 1 as hockey operations coordinator. Roy had 7 seasons as a head coach, and also served as GM and AGM throughout his time with Quebec. St. Louis at least served a skills coach at the NHL level. Gretzky is the greatest player of all time and had ownership stake in the Coyotes. Everyone listed had an actual job with actual responsibilities. Messier was special assistant to the GM. There's no actual weight to that role. Did you actually look any of these people up? These roles some of these guys had are kinda bullshit and a slight step above "special assistant to the GM". I did mention most spend a year or so in some player development title then Assistant GM. But you're right. I did a quick scan of their wikis and I guess their pages are severely lacking. I apologize for the quick search and fail. Totally whiffed on Roy though as I didn't look at his. Doesn't discount the fact that Messier stands a good chance to walk on in any franchise and either be an assistant coach, a coach, or an assistant GM or GM. But I'll take the massive L here. Should have dug deeper than wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 44 minutes ago, jsrangers said: Yep probably reaching out to George Santos school of resume writing as we speak. George Santos probably has like a decade of NHL coaching experience and a cup win. We should see if he’s available 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said: George Santos probably has like a decade of NHL coaching experience and a cup win. We should see if he’s available He's otherwise occupied... Writing Lafraniere draft profiles. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 18 hours ago, Pete said: He's otherwise occupied... Writing Lafraniere draft profiles. I went to JHS with George Santos. He works for the NYC Department of Sanitation now. He also wrote Alexandre Daigle’s draft profile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 I really wish the Oilers would just hire Messier in some meaningless role already so we don't have to go through this shit every time the Rangers change coaches or have any kind of open front office position. Mark Messier Chief Nostalgia Officer Edmonton Oilers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Phil said: I really wish the Oilers would just hire Messier in some meaningless role already so we don't have to go through this shit every time the Rangers change coaches or have any kind of open front office position. Mark Messier Chief Nostalgia Officer Edmonton Oilers Agreed. I love Messier. But this rhetoric that you see everyone about everyone wanting him to ride in on a white horse to fix all the Rangers ails everytime we fire a coach is just nauseating at this point. He has never been a coach, in any capacity, anywhere. Messier already did his saving of the Rangers. We don’t need him. We need a head coach. Edited May 11, 2023 by RichieNextel305 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 19 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said: Agreed. I love Messier. But this rhetoric that you see everyone about everyone wanting him to ride in on a white horse to fix all the Rangers ails everytime we fire a coach is just nauseating at this point. He has never been a coach, in any capacity, anywhere. Messier already did his saving of the Rangers. We don’t need him. We need a head coach. It's not even about him riding in like a white knight. They fired Gallant because he couldn't make in-game adjustments and lacked in strategic thinking/understanding. So why on earth would you turn around and give the job to a guy who is likely to suffer from the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Phil said: I really wish the Oilers would just hire Messier in some meaningless role already so we don't have to go through this shit every time the Rangers change coaches or have any kind of open front office position. Mark Messier Chief Nostalgia Officer Edmonton Oilers Are people really suggesting Messier now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 So, whoever the strategic thinker is, that guy is going to tell Kreider and Panarin to forecheck aggressively and hit their guys every opportunity because that's the way to break down the other team over a series of shifts? This miracle worker is going to tell Zibanejad and Panarin to crash the net because that's the way to open up scoring opportunities against a team that is playing tight in front of the goal? Maybe he'll tell Panarin to dump and chase when the other team is standing him up at the blue line and forcing turnovers? You'll note that there is a name that keeps coming up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, Br4d said: So, whoever the strategic thinker is, that guy is going to tell Kreider and Panarin to forecheck aggressively and hit their guys every opportunity because that's the way to break down the other team over a series of shifts? This miracle worker is going to tell Zibanejad and Panarin to crash the net because that's the way to open up scoring opportunities against a team that is playing tight in front of the goal? Maybe he'll tell Panarin to dump and chase when the other team is standing him up at the blue line and forcing turnovers? You'll note that there is a name that keeps coming up here. Carolina has a super aggressive forecheck. They pressure the puck all over the ice. They were 30th in hits during the regular season. The Rangers had 600 more hits. I'm not sure why installing a system and having a game plan is always equated to turning Panarin into a 4th line grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Carolina has a super aggressive forecheck. They pressure the puck all over the ice. They were 30th in hits during the regular season. The Rangers had 600 more hits. I'm not sure why installing a system and having a game plan is always equated to turning Panarin into a 4th line grinder. Maybe because it feels like when the passing game is taken away by the other team it also feels like Panarin is a big fat zero on the ice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 Just now, Br4d said: Maybe because it feels like when the passing game is taken away by the other team it also feels like Panarin is a big fat zero on the ice? What does that have to do with throwing hits on the forecheck or Panarin's linemates crashing the net? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts