2022-23 Off-season Thread: Endless Pain, Hatred, and Rage ... Also Boredom

[The Dude]

On 5/4/2023 at 5:48 PM, Cash or Czech said:

Our offensive “scheme” is so fluid it doesn’t matter who plays what position. Laugh can’t play RW yet half his zone entries were on the right side. Moving Trocheck to wing doesn’t change a thing or help with chemistry

Yet every RW they ever get, seems to always be on that right hand side on breaks and set ups for shots. Tarasenko,  Kakko, Vatrano,  Copp, Gauthier... Fuck Kane, he doesn't count,  but him too.

 

I get what you're saying.  It's mostly true, yet for some reason their RWs get their opportunities from the right, while the center and LW wander everywhere. 

[The Dude]

16 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I don’t think there’s one or two or any set steps where you can look at and say, “that’s the answer!” This off-season is going to be unchartered territory. Anything can happen.

 

Usually, when a team loses, the gut reaction is to try and mold your team more like the team you just lost to. Not just us, or this sport. It’s like that in many sports I feel.

 

That said, while sure I would love to have Jerseys speed, it’s part of their team identity. For example, adding 1 or 2 burners makes us quicker; it doesn’t make our team as fast as theirs.

 

Going off track here, my point is this: I think usually we have a pretty good idea as to what moves or what types of players we need to pursue are. And what avenues we can take to get that type of player(s) here. Now? After what just happened? I really don’t know. I don’t know who to target, what to target, who is gonna take a fall, if anyone is gonna take a fall, who’s gonna be behind the bench, etc.

 

And again, as an organization, this falls on everyone, top to bottom. They did this to themselves and they gave themselves all a long few months to sit back, think, marinate and come up with a plan for the future. Because if we had just been beat by a better team, like we were last year, I think we can accept that. But to just come up with such gutless performances? It makes you wonder, and Drury has some wondering to do before he starts making moves.

I don't think the answer is to match the team that beat you. It's to counter it. Need grit, need physical match ups, need a defensive plan.

 

Also need to spread out the icetime and stop running PP1 out for a minute and a half. Fox, Miller. Zibanejad and Kreider looked absolutely dead in game 7.  Kane WAS dead. True story. He was a corpse. Gave nothing,  because he had nothing.

 

Zone starts were also ridiculous in that series. Lots of 3rd and 4th line starts in the offensive zone when down by goals. They also got fucking destroyed on faceoffs. Worse than last year. Even Trocheck stunk. 

 

The chemical make up of the top 6 has always been an issue since they fired JD and Gorton. You can't become "harder to play against" (as their mantra was fir that offseason", if you are titty meat soft in your top 6. Your elite forwards are complete pussies and they are the focal point of your offense. You can't deem yourself "harder to play against" if you only build a semi trustable 4th line...  that you can't match up against other teams to throw them into fits.  Your top lines have to have an element of grit with their skill. You'd think Kreider and Trocheck would be enough, but they cater their styles to the pansies they play with.  

 

Point is. They need a shooter or 2 that play big.  There's 2 open RW spots and no cap room. One of the guys that are due a raise has to go, to have the cap room to almost add atleast one RW that plays that way. Lafrenière or Miller. Or Lindgren. 

 

Bah. Who am I kidding. Goodrow will be promoted up. Sadly,  that really could have worked in the Devils series. Goodrow instead of Kane  in a top 6 role, probably brings more jump and what was missing. 

 

 

[Br4d]

How would things look if the Rangers found a way to trade Panarin for some value and keep Tarasenko?

 

 

[The Dude]

23 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

I'm pretty convinced that Tyler Bertuzzi needs to be at the top of the list of moves to make for Drury. No matter what direction he chooses to go in terms of who is getting traded, he's the exact kind of guy who needs to be brought in. He likes to go to high traffic areas of the ice and has top 6 talent.

I'm thinking Anthony Mantha, Jordan Greenway, Victor Olofsson, Max Domi, Brendan Gallagher, Josh Anderson. Heck TJ Oshie too. 

 

But there's other avenues too, such as Boeser for long term (bye bye Lafrenière)

 

Maybe a last lap for Silfverberg? 

 

Though the last 2 I mentioned aren't exactly the most gritty, I feel that they don't play particularly soft. 

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Playing around in CapFriendly pretending I'm in the [despicable] "trade Lafreniere" boat, so I've left him unsigned. Other than that, I've only re-signed Miller at $4M, Zac Jones at $800k, and Halak at $1M.

 

There's $5M left to round out this roster and tell me how it is in any way a better forechecking and hardworking team than what was sent to the slaughterhouse against the Devils.

 

I'll wait.

 

Well. You forgot Othmann. So, obviously you're not thinking correctly lol. 

 

5+ mill for 2 RW or 1 RW and a 3C  isn't impossible. Chytil can move to RW and slot up, making the needs a 3C and and RW.

 

Grab a guy that can slot all over the lineup. Domi fits.  2RW. 3RW, 3C, 4C. He really was the guy they should have targeted instead of Kane. Gives you so many options. 

[BrooksBurner]

15 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Well. You forgot Othmann. So, obviously you're not thinking correctly lol. 

 

5+ mill for 2 RW or 1 RW and a 3C  isn't impossible. Chytil can move to RW and slot up, making the needs a 3C and and RW.

 

Grab a guy that can slot all over the lineup. Domi fits.  2RW. 3RW, 3C, 4C. He really was the guy they should have targeted instead of Kane. Gives you so many options. 

 

I didn't forget Othmann. He's an option, but penciling a rookie in and expecting results looks familiar doesn't it?

 

It's not impossible to fill this lineup out, but it's pretty impossible to fill it out and tell me the team has improved. It's actually pretty likely to be worse than the Rangers' starting roster from the last two seasons.

 

Domi fits positionally, but there's no cap to sign him in this scenario. He put up 20 goals and almost 60 points this year, and has 7 points in 8 games for Dallas in the playoffs. He took a 1 year $3M show-me deal and good for him because he's going to get paid. I figure something like the Strome deal last summer. 5x5.

 

 

[RichieNextel305]

He was brutal against us, but over time he’s been a pretty good 4th line guy for the Devils. But Miles Wood, I wonder if he’s someone that might interest the Rangers. Have to imagine his price will drop off a down year. Good bottom-6 guy, brings speed, can hit, can score. Depending on his UFA ask, I wonder if he may be a fit.

Edited May 6, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

He was brutal against us, but over time he’s been a pretty good 4th line guy for the Devils. But Miles Wood, I wonder if he’s someone that might interest the Rangers. Have to imagine his price will drop off a down year. Good bottom-6 guy, brings speed, can hit, can score. Depending on ask, I wonder if he may be a fit.

If I'm taking anyone off the Devils roster via FA. I think Haula is the fit. Probably at that 2 5  range. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I didn't forget Othmann. He's an option, but penciling a rookie in and expecting results looks familiar doesn't it?

 

It's not impossible to fill this lineup out, but it's pretty impossible to fill it out and tell me the team has improved. It's actually pretty likely to be worse than the Rangers' starting roster from the last two seasons.

 

Domi fits positionally, but there's no cap to sign him in this scenario. He put up 20 goals and almost 60 points this year, and has 7 points in 8 games for Dallas in the playoffs. He took a 1 year $3M show-me deal and good for him because he's going to get paid. I figure something like the Strome deal last summer. 5x5.

 

 

Just thought it was odd you picked Cuylle over Othmann to slap on your 3rd line. Any particular reason for that? 

 

I think the keys are, getting Miller signed under 4 mill at with term.

 

Then dealing Lafrenière for a top/mid 6 RW with grit or shooting desire, but with some retention. Maybe some sweetener, like Jones gets you, Boeser, with retention at that 4 mill sweet spot. Or send him to Montreal for Anderson with retention and either a D man or  a future 1st. How about that guy Ozzy is always gushing over? Xanadu or whatever hus name is. 

 

Maybe you can sell high with Lindgren? Miller? Backfill with Mikkola and or Robertson? Would anyone deal Lindgren for a Mantha or Oshie or even Wilson? 

 

Domi certainly is having a good post season. I'm not sure he gets all that much more of a raise on his next deal. He's a 3 mill type player. Most he gets is 4 with little term and that could fit here. 

 

I'd even sniff around at other teams failed high draft picks. Zadina has flopped. Never got it going in Detroit. 1.8 mill. Fuck it. Guy loves to shoot. Couldn't cost much in trade. It may take a bunch of prayer moves such as this to get production out of the missing RW spots. 

 

Vets like Lucic and Perry can be had for league minimum to fill out depth and bottom 6 holes, while adding that attitude and beef. 

 

 

[Pete]

9 hours ago, The Dude said:

I'm thinking Anthony Mantha, Jordan Greenway, Victor Olofsson, Max Domi, Brendan Gallagher, Josh Anderson. Heck TJ Oshie too. 

 

But there's other avenues too, such as Boeser for long term (bye bye Lafrenière)

 

Maybe a last lap for Silfverberg? 

 

Though the last 2 I mentioned aren't exactly the most gritty, I feel that they don't play particularly soft. 

Or imagine a coach just got Krieder to play like the fastest man in the ice at 6-3 200+ pounds, and turns him into the heat seeking missile and the F1 who gets in and makes the other team turn pucks over with his speed and size? 

[Pete]

GMs don't dismantle playoff teams. They just don't. Because owners like playoff revenue. 

 

There's only one logical big change to be made. 

[jsm7302]

10 hours ago, The Dude said:

I don't think the answer is to match the team that beat you. It's to counter it. Need grit, need physical match ups, need a defensive plan.

 

Also need to spread out the icetime and stop running PP1 out for a minute and a half. Fox, Miller. Zibanejad and Kreider looked absolutely dead in game 7.  Kane WAS dead. True story. He was a corpse. Gave nothing,  because he had nothing.

 

Zone starts were also ridiculous in that series. Lots of 3rd and 4th line starts in the offensive zone when down by goals. They also got fucking destroyed on faceoffs. Worse than last year. Even Trocheck stunk. 

 

The chemical make up of the top 6 has always been an issue since they fired JD and Gorton. You can't become "harder to play against" (as their mantra was fir that offseason", if you are titty meat soft in your top 6. Your elite forwards are complete pussies and they are the focal point of your offense. You can't deem yourself "harder to play against" if you only build a semi trustable 4th line...  that you can't match up against other teams to throw them into fits.  Your top lines have to have an element of grit with their skill. You'd think Kreider and Trocheck would be enough, but they cater their styles to the pansies they play with.  

 

Point is. They need a shooter or 2 that play big.  There's 2 open RW spots and no cap room. One of the guys that are due a raise has to go, to have the cap room to almost add atleast one RW that plays that way. Lafrenière or Miller. Or Lindgren. 

 

Bah. Who am I kidding. Goodrow will be promoted up. Sadly,  that really could have worked in the Devils series. Goodrow instead of Kane  in a top 6 role, probably brings more jump and what was missing. 

 

 

That's exactly what I've been saying. And it was normal practice through out the past two seasons when needed but somehow it was like the forgotten idea in the Devils series.

 

Miller is going to net us the most cap flexibility and we have backfill for the D on cheap entry levels. Tough decision but this is the window. 

[BrooksBurner]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

Just thought it was odd you picked Cuylle over Othmann to slap on your 3rd line. Any particular reason for that? 

 

I think the keys are, getting Miller signed under 4 mill at with term.

 

Then dealing Lafrenière for a top/mid 6 RW with grit or shooting desire, but with some retention. Maybe some sweetener, like Jones gets you, Boeser, with retention at that 4 mill sweet spot. Or send him to Montreal for Anderson with retention and either a D man or  a future 1st. How about that guy Ozzy is always gushing over? Xanadu or whatever hus name is. 

 

Maybe you can sell high with Lindgren? Miller? Backfill with Mikkola and or Robertson? Would anyone deal Lindgren for a Mantha or Oshie or even Wilson? 

 

Domi certainly is having a good post season. I'm not sure he gets all that much more of a raise on his next deal. He's a 3 mill type player. Most he gets is 4 with little term and that could fit here. 

 

I'd even sniff around at other teams failed high draft picks. Zadina has flopped. Never got it going in Detroit. 1.8 mill. Fuck it. Guy loves to shoot. Couldn't cost much in trade. It may take a bunch of prayer moves such as this to get production out of the missing RW spots. 

 

Vets like Lucic and Perry can be had for league minimum to fill out depth and bottom 6 holes, while adding that attitude and beef. 

 

 

I put Cuylle on line 4. He has a year in the A under his belt and got a stint in the NHL. He is probably more ready to fill a role on this team than Othmann. Even if you swap him out it’s ELC for ELC and there will still be $5M to fill 4 winger spots. It doesn’t change the math.

[jsm7302]

3 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

I put Cuylle on line 4. He has a year in the A under his belt and got a stint in the NHL. He is probably more ready to fill a role on this team than Othmann. Even if you swap him out it’s ELC for ELC and there will still be $5M to fill 4 winger spots. It doesn’t change the math.

Cuylle is the play. Let Othmann cut his teeth in the A next year. We will see how he does and maybe becomes a stand out and mid year call up. No reason to rush this kid. Let history teach us instead of repeating the same mistakes.

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

Cuylle is the play. Let Othmann cut his teeth in the A next year. We will see how he does and maybe becomes a stand out and mid year call up. No reason to rush this kid. Let history teach us instead of repeating the same mistakes.

Meh. I think Othmann will just push right on through. He deserved to make the team out of camp this year, but they went the "safe" route instead. He totally out played Cuylle then (as well as Hunt and even Gauthier)...

 

BUT, it's looking like Cuylle has improved quite a bit since. I'd like both of them here and wouldn't be annoyed if Othmann loses the spot to Cuylle. That would mean Cuylle is seriously ready.

 

I'm still banking on Othmann being a lock. The better player will win that battle.  The Rangers benefit no matter what. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by The Dude

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Meh. I think Othmann will just push right on through. He deserved to make the team out of camp this year, but they went the "safe" route instead. He totally out played Cuylle then (as well as Hunt and even Gauthier)...

 

BUT, it's looking like Cuylle has improved quite a bit since. I'd like both of them here and wouldn't be annoyed if Othmann loses the spot to Cuylle. That would mean Cuylle is seriously ready.

 

I'm still banking on Othmann being a lock. The better player will win that battle.  The Rangers benefit no matter what. 

 

Are they even competing against each other? In my mind, Cuylle is trying to land a 4th line spot out of the gate. Othmann would be trying to land a 3rd line spot. They would be nuts to have Othmann on the 4th line versus top line minutes in Hartford.

 

Maybe Cuylle's got more to offer next season. I don't know.

[BrooksBurner]

Step 1 complete.

 

1. Fire Gallant

2. Trade Panarin

3. Sign Bertuzzi

[The Dude]

26 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Are they even competing against each other? In my mind, Cuylle is trying to land a 4th line spot out of the gate. Othmann would be trying to land a 3rd line spot. They would be nuts to have Othmann on the 4th line versus top line minutes in Hartford.

 

Maybe Cuylle's got more to offer next season. I don't know.

I'm thinking Motte will be back. 

 

Motte- Goodrow- Vesey  is likely the 4th line. If Vesey is pushed up into the top 9 again,  I'm going to puke. But, with the cap issues, it's pretty likely. 

 

Everything gets cloudy with knowing there's a new coach coming in. Vesey was a typical Gallant schmoe, that got more looks than he deserved. Even got an extension out of it. 

 

Will another coach do as Gallant did and over value such a player? Heck, does a new coach want any part of super bust Lafrenière? Or do they welcome and want the challenge? 

 

Ah well. Atleast there's going to be something new.

 

 

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"Rangers just came to terms with unknown coach Bernard Ballant"  

 

 

[siddious]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

I'm thinking Motte will be back. 

 

Motte- Goodrow- Vesey  is likely the 4th line. If Vesey is pushed up into the top 9 again,  I'm going to puke. But, with the cap issues, it's pretty likely. 

 

Everything gets cloudy with knowing there's a new coach coming in. Vesey was a typical Gallant schmoe, that got more looks than he deserved. Even got an extension out of it. 

 

Will another coach do as Gallant did and over value such a player? Heck, does a new coach want any part of super bust Lafrenière? Or do they welcome and want the challenge? 

 

Ah well. Atleast there's going to be something new.

 

 

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"Rangers just came to terms with unknown coach Bernard Ballant"  

 

 

“My job is to ONLY-develop players”

[BrooksBurner]

Some Evolving Hockey contract projections for discussion. They do estimates on different lengths, but these are what they have deemed as the most likely term length and AAV combination.

 

On our roster:

 

K'Andre Miller 7 yrs $6.2M

Patrick Kane 5 yrs $7.6M

Vladimir Tarasenko 3 yrs $5.3M

Alexis Lafreniere 2 yrs $2.7M

Tyler Motte 1 yr $1.2M

Niko Mikkola 4 yrs $2.6M

Zac Jones 1 yr $825k

Jaroslav Halak 1 yr $1.1M

 

UFAs that have been mentioned in the last few pages:

 

Tyler Bertuzzi 4 yrs $5.5M

Max Domi 3 yrs $4.5M

Gustav Nyquist 3 yrs $4.1M

Erik Haula 3yrs $4M

Miles Wood 4 yrs $3.2M

Jesper Fast 3 yrs $2.6M

JVR 1 yr $1.6M

Kampf 3 yrs $2.2M

Nick Foligno 1 yr $900k

 

[BrooksBurner]

56 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'm thinking Motte will be back. 

 

Motte- Goodrow- Vesey  is likely the 4th line. If Vesey is pushed up into the top 9 again,  I'm going to puke. But, with the cap issues, it's pretty likely. 

 

Everything gets cloudy with knowing there's a new coach coming in. Vesey was a typical Gallant schmoe, that got more looks than he deserved. Even got an extension out of it. 

 

Will another coach do as Gallant did and over value such a player? Heck, does a new coach want any part of super bust Lafrenière? Or do they welcome and want the challenge? 

 

Ah well. Atleast there's going to be something new.

 

 

.

 

.

 

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"Rangers just came to terms with unknown coach Bernard Ballant"  

 

 

 

I don't think so. They were garbage.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

Some Evolving Hockey contract projections for discussion. They do estimates on different lengths, but these are what they have deemed as the most likely term length and AAV combination.

 

On our roster:

 

K'Andre Miller 7 yrs $6.2M

Patrick Kane 5 yrs $7.6M

Vladimir Tarasenko 3 yrs $5.3M

Alexis Lafreniere 2 yrs $2.7M

Tyler Motte 1 yr $1.2M

Niko Mikkola 4 yrs $2.6M

Zac Jones 1 yr $825k

Jaroslav Halak 1 yr $1.1M

 

UFAs that have been mentioned in the last few pages:

 

Tyler Bertuzzi 4 yrs $5.5M

Max Domi 3 yrs $4.5M

Gustav Nyquist 3 yrs $4.1M

Erik Haula 3yrs $4M

Miles Wood 4 yrs $3.2M

Jesper Fast 3 yrs $2.6M

JVR 1 yr $1.6M

Kampf 3 yrs $2.2M

Nick Foligno 1 yr $900k

 

Is this the same site that said Kadri was going to get 9 X 9 or something ridiculous last summer? 

 

Miller isn't getting over 4.5. 

Kane will be lucky to find a contender thst that will give him 4 

Tarasenko is about right, but probably gets more like 6X4

 

 

If JVR is at 1 6, I'm trading Lafrenière last week. 

 

 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I don't think so. They were garbage.

Vesey was kinda meh for a bit, but wound up playing with some energy.  Motte drew penalties and Goodrow played like Goodrow does, which was pretty good. They had motor and played physical.  

 

Though they gave up an important goal, I had no problem with the 4th line. What was so bad about them? What are we expecting here? 

[BrooksBurner]

7 hours ago, The Dude said:

Is this the same site that said Kadri was going to get 9 X 9 or something ridiculous last summer? 

 

Miller isn't getting over 4.5. 

Kane will be lucky to find a contender thst that will give him 4 

Tarasenko is about right, but probably gets more like 6X4

 

 

If JVR is at 1 6, I'm trading Lafrenière last week. 

 

 

They had Kadri estimated at 7 x $8.5 last year, but they also don’t make trade clause predictions which impacts dollar cost.

 

Contract projections have been a bit tough though after covid/flat cap. I think based on the projections I see here, they’ve tapered down the dollar cost of what I would expect these guys to get if the cap were increasing at a healthy pace. Not sure that was the case last year.

Edited May 7, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Kevin]

9 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Some Evolving Hockey contract projections for discussion. They do estimates on different lengths, but these are what they have deemed as the most likely term length and AAV combination.

 

On our roster:

 

K'Andre Miller 7 yrs $6.2M

Patrick Kane 5 yrs $7.6M

Vladimir Tarasenko 3 yrs $5.3M

Alexis Lafreniere 2 yrs $2.7M

Tyler Motte 1 yr $1.2M

Niko Mikkola 4 yrs $2.6M

Zac Jones 1 yr $825k

Jaroslav Halak 1 yr $1.1M

 

UFAs that have been mentioned in the last few pages:

 

Tyler Bertuzzi 4 yrs $5.5M

Max Domi 3 yrs $4.5M

Gustav Nyquist 3 yrs $4.1M

Erik Haula 3yrs $4M

Miles Wood 4 yrs $3.2M

Jesper Fast 3 yrs $2.6M

JVR 1 yr $1.6M

Kampf 3 yrs $2.2M

Nick Foligno 1 yr $900k

 

If someone offers Patrick Kane a 5 year contract at this point it better not be the Rangers.