2022-23 Off-season Thread: Endless Pain, Hatred, and Rage ... Also Boredom

[Long live the King]

13 hours ago, The Dude said:

? Karlsson won it twice.  He was traded AFTER he won it. He was considered for one this year again. Bret Burns won it and was a pretty hard hitting physical guy in his prime.

 

The list of Norris winners is filled with guys who have been traded at one time or another before and after they've won it.  PK Subban has won a Norris. How many times was THAT guy traded? I'm sorry,  but a Norris trophy doesn't make a player untouchable. I'm kinda not leaning towards Fox being all that great defensively. Especially not the last 2 seasons.  He's really damn good though. I'd be stupid to say he's not amongst the top 5 or so,  D-men in the game.  But hardly the best all around. 

 

Meh. Trading away the biggest asset that brings back what would be a franchise altering return,  makes sense in the right situation. Don't care if he's 25, 26 or 27.  If it accelerates the eventual rebuild and nets cost controled 1st line talent. It's gotta be taken into consideration.  

 

What does Karlsson have to do with anything?  Ottawa was rebuilding and Karlsson's contract was about to expire.  If it was 2027 then Fox/Karlsson would be a comparison.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Long live the King

[Pete]

21 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I'm not going to move on until I see value in keeping Panarin and that value is not there right now.

 

Panarin is a soft player who vanishes if the game gets chippy.  It's like he doesn't want to be on the ice when that stuff is going on.

 

That 8 minutes at the end of game 2 where the officials were sorting everything out by sending half the benches to the locker room?  That was the last time we saw Panarin do anything useful.  When the game gets like that he's checked out.

Great, he's soft, you have one knock against him that you try to keep making equal to every other benefit of having him on the team.

 

The scales aren't in your favor homie. 

 

Neither is math. We went over this before... Firstly, if he's as bad as you think he is, then why would anybody want him? Secondly any team he would waive for can't afford him. Thirdly, nobody is going to take back his salary in a flat cap without us having to take something back. 

 

You keep beating this drum, but it's going to be fruitless. There's a 99% chance he's going to be on the roster in September. Yet every post you make is about how he needs to be traded. We get the point, you don't have to keep repeating yourself over and over in every post in every thread. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

I don’t know where all of this comes from.

Honestly I don’t.

 

Its deployment. Matchups. Line shuffling in  a sense with analysis in terms of who you play with who, what role you assign them, how you utilize them, and in what situation you do so, that really lends you good results. With some gut instinct and daring to experiment too.

 

That’s it.

 

Watch Tampa over the last 10 seasons.

Chicago over 9-10 seasons.

Pittsburgh under Sully.

Colorado under Bednar over the last 4 seasons. 
 

 

The instinct coaches have is to play their best the most and let the chips fall as they may. 
The coaches who do that, but also heed situations and the appropriate matchups with shuffling and deployment, are the ones who have success, provided the talent is in place. And it is. 
 

Why can’t you use a line of Goodrow-Trochek-Kakko to combat a top-line?

Speed is an issue?

Ok!

 

Play Kreider-Chytil-Motte

 

Need something heavier and more about forecheck, getting the puck deep,…. Play Kreider-Trochek-Kakko.

 

Wanna go all out?

Ok!

 

Panarin-Zib-Chytil?

 

Find the formula.

The elements you need are present.

 

[The Dude]

21 hours ago, Long live the King said:

 

What does Karlsson have to do with anything?  Ottawa was rebuilding and Karlsson's contract was about to expire.  If it was 2027 then Fox/Karlsson would be a comparison.

 

 

They were talking about moving him for years prior. And why wouldn't a middling team pay their top player and Norris winner?  Especially in a rebuid??? 

 

Because it's not all it's cracked up to be when the rest of your line up isn't that great. 

 

It's debatable as to how great this Ranger roster actually is and how great it's going to be as the years go by. 

 

The discussion was about (shifted to) not getting rid of a young Norris winner. It's been done. Plenty of times. Karlsson being one of them. 

 

 

[The Dude]

18 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

I don’t know where all of this comes from.

Honestly I don’t.

 

Its deployment. Matchups. Line shuffling in  a sense with analysis in terms of who you play with who, what role you assign them, how you utilize them, and in what situation you do so, that really lends you good results. With some gut instinct and daring to experiment too.

 

That’s it.

 

Watch Tampa over the last 10 seasons.

Chicago over 9-10 seasons.

Pittsburgh under Sully.

Colorado under Bednar over the last 4 seasons. 
 

 

The instinct coaches have is to play their best the most and let the chips fall as they may. 
The coaches who do that, but also heed situations and the appropriate matchups with shuffling and deployment, are the ones who have success, provided the talent is in place. And it is. 
 

Why can’t you use a line of Goodrow-Trochek-Kakko to combat a top-line?

Speed is an issue?

Ok!

 

Play Kreider-Chytil-Motte

 

Need something heavier and more about forecheck, getting the puck deep,…. Play Kreider-Trochek-Kakko.

 

Wanna go all out?

Ok!

 

Panarin-Zib-Chytil?

 

Find the formula.

The elements you need are present.

 

Situational hockey. Adjustments. Gameplan. Leadership. Trust. 

 

That last word seemed to be something Gallant may have been trying to use as some kind of mantra. I heard a few times in the sad mumble Zibanejad post game stuff as well as others, the phrase "we have to trust each other", but it was also followed with bullshit "we have to play the right way"   

 

Towards the end of the season,  it seemed like Gallant would think outside of the box and he did put together an on the fly defensive forward unit late in the game. That didn't last long. 

 

Another thing Gallant did upon arrival was to say that every single forward should learn to play with anyone on the roster. Which is true. An interchangeable lineup is always key to success.

 

Sadly, Gallant gave up on that and pretty much just rotated the same 4 forwards around,  while not really ever rewarding lower line players for in game efforts. A guy like Gauthier could draw 3 PPs, because of his drives to the net, but still only get 8 minutes a night and no PP time in a game where the top players are obviously flat. 

 

He had zero feel for the game and the players. Some games,  you  just have to give more icetime to the guys that are buzzing instead of your most talented.  They hardly ever started a game and set the tone for how the game would be played. 

 

Really hope who ever takes over can do these things and not talk out of their ass. Bench underachieving players. Play guys who are surging. Have an actual feel from game to game. 

 

 

[Pete]

39 minutes ago, The Dude said:

They were talking about moving him for years prior. And why wouldn't a middling team pay their top player and Norris winner?  Especially in a rebuid??? 

 

Because it's not all it's cracked up to be when the rest of your line up isn't that great. 

 

It's debatable as to how great this Ranger roster actually is and how great it's going to be as the years go by. 

 

The discussion was about (shifted to) not getting rid of a young Norris winner. It's been done. Plenty of times. Karlsson being one of them. 

 

 

It's really only debatable on this forum how good this team is. Some people act like there's multiple holes that need to be filled by trading Panarin. 

 

There's talent on this team. We will find out what they're really made of this season. I don't think coaching was the problem with this team, I think one specific coach was the problem. If another coach comes in and there's no results, then we can start talking about players.

 

But they were just way too many red flags to think this was all about players and not about the coach. There were multiple no shows in the playoffs. When the entire team is struggling, there's only one guy to look at and that's the guy behind the bench. 

[The Dude]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

It's really only debatable on this forum how good this team is. Some people act like there's multiple holes that need to be filled by trading Panarin. 

 

There's talent on this team. We will find out what they're really made of this season. I don't think coaching was the problem with this team, I think one specific coach was the problem. If another coach comes in and there's no results, then we can start talking about players.

 

But they were just way too many red flags to think this was all about players and not about the coach. There were multiple no shows in the playoffs. When the entire team is struggling, there's only one guy to look at and that's the guy behind the bench. 

I hear ya. Coming off a ECF appearance,  the talent is obvious.

 

The fact that they pretty much got there on their own shows there's something there.

 

Sprinkle in one of the best goalie performances ever and some luck, it lends to the possibility that it was possibility just a right place right time scenario.

 

After upgrading the wing to elite player status and failing miserably with a disgusting collapse, it makes you wonder about the roster. You'd think these additions would have bolstered the backbone of this uncoached bunch. Serving as the next level leaders that have playoff prowess.

 

Who knows.  Maybe Kane spoke up about the lack of direction?  Maybe it happened in the locker-room or maybe he went right to Drury. 

 

I expected a hell of a lot more from that guy. Now that I think about it, it could have just been a culture shock. Like a "seriously?.. theres NO system,  no safety valve... nothing?.. how? Why?... fuck this.." 

 

It would explain the odd body language and the awful giveaways where he gave zero fucks to try to get back and help. 

 

I have questions about this core.  Always did. I never understood how management preached "harder to play against",  when the top 3-4 forwards play soft. Plugging Goodrow and Hunt into the bottom 6 wasn't going to change the makeup of the team. Unless you deployed them in some kind of shut down/ disruption role,.  like the Isles did 3 years ago with Clutterbuck Martin an Cizikas. Instead, they wound up just pushing these guys up the roster. Goodrow didn't work out that great in that role. Hunt sucked, but Panarin and Strome were a force with that piece of shit on their right. 

 

So the question is.  Can it work putting a large body or hard-nosed player with Zibanejad or Panarin or Chytil? Do we believe they even have to? Can skill survive in the playoffs? If not, what are the Rangers doing? There's not much you can do with these top players as far as making them champions. How much rope do they get?  But that's down the line. It's not something that will be or should be answered right now. Next summer though. 

 

This incoming coach has a ton of pressure on him to figure this out.  Bad situation. 

[Pete]

Mercogliano's last pod with Kaplan does a great job of outlining why Gallant was let go. It's a lot of what myself and others here have been saying.

 

Spoiler alert, it wasn't because Panarin needs to be traded.

[siddious]

I really can’t wait for the playoffs to finish already so stuff can start happening in Ranger land.

[Albatrosss]

12 minutes ago, siddious said:

I really can’t wait for the playoffs to finish already so stuff can start happening in Ranger land.

Panarin isnt getting traded, dude.  Get over it.  

[siddious]

4 minutes ago, CCCP said:

Panarin isnt getting traded, dude.  Get over it.  

I dunno I made it work in Chel 

[Albatrosss]

2 minutes ago, siddious said:

I dunno I made it work in Chel 

what did you get in return?

[siddious]

2 minutes ago, CCCP said:

what did you get in return?

Matt Tkachuk lol 

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

Matt Tkachuk lol 

of course. 

 

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, siddious said:

Matt Tkachuk lol 

 

[Albatrosss]

it would take 3 panarins to get tkatchuk

[BrooksBurner]

3 hours ago, CCCP said:

it would take 3 panarins to get tkatchuk

Brady maybe

[Albatrosss]

34 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Brady maybe

2 panarins

[jsm7302]

https://nypost.com/2023/05/21/rangers-filip-chytil-suffers-suspected-fractured-cheekbone/amp/

 

Porcelain Chytil

[Br4d]

13 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

https://nypost.com/2023/05/21/rangers-filip-chytil-suffers-suspected-fractured-cheekbone/amp/

 

Porcelain Chytil

 

This is completely unfair.  Anybody can get seriously hurt if they take a stick to the face.

[Shane Falco]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

This is completely unfair.  Anybody can get seriously hurt if they take a stick to the face.

 

He actually got hit twice in the same week IIRC. Took a puck to the face too.

[jsm7302]

4 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

This is completely unfair.  Anybody can get seriously hurt if they take a stick to the face.

Better to happen now than during the season.....He'd be waiting for Ramsay.....

[Pete]

1 minute ago, jsm7302 said:

Better to happen now than during the season.....He'd be waiting for Ramsay.....

Maybe Drury sees Chytil as the key to the franchise and blamed Ramsay for Chytil fragility, and that's why he got fired. 

 

As long as we're speculating, ya know? 

[Br4d]

Chytil is maybe the second or third most valuable long-term asset the Rangers have right now depending on how you view the various kids.  Fox is the only asset that is clearly more valuable from a long-term perspective.

[Pete]

33 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Chytil is maybe the second or third most valuable long-term asset the Rangers have right now depending on how you view the various kids.  Fox is the only asset that is clearly more valuable from a long-term perspective.

That's not really saying anything though. He's now locked in at a reasonable number based on his production. That's really his only value. 

 

I think Kakko surpasses him in a year or 2.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Pete