josh Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, Pete said: Fox earned ice time and opportunity. He started on the 3rd pair when ADA was QBing the PP. None of the other kids are forcing the coach to give them the ice time the way Fox did. fox didn’t get any pk time his first season and was on 2nd PP before DeAngelo slammed the penalty box door. im not lying he step tf up. But he hadn’t really earned anything, not anytime more than the kids did in the playoffs but go back further. the only bottom 6 player still around is Chytil, and he’s putting up the same number of points he did his rookie season. They’ve had the same holes for 10 years, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, josh said: fox didn’t get any pk time his first season and was on 2nd PP before DeAngelo slammed the penalty box door. im not lying he step tf up. But he hadn’t really earned anything, not anytime more than the kids did in the playoffs but go back further. the only bottom 6 player still around is Chytil, and he’s putting up the same number of points he did his rookie season. They’ve had the same holes for 10 years, too. Yea, I don't really agree with that. He got better over the course of a full season. The kids in the playoffs, look— it remains to be see what carries over. The games I've watched, they look like the same team. Lafreniere is the only one who looks even a bit better than last year. Kakko still Kakka Chytil still Shittle Goat still rocking the same move wide that didn't work the other 493 times he tried it Hajek still trash Kravtsov left his moves in the KHL I'd have liked to see someone come in and take a spot, and someone actually did. Unfortunately his name is Jimmy Vesey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 I’m so tired of hearing about journeymen like Vesey, who couldn’t get more than a PTO from anyone in the league, “earn” spots because they were good for a short training camp and in a few preseason games. We talk about sample sizes all of the time, yet they don’t apply in these situations. Blais was a superstar in camp last year, then he had 0 goals in 14 games before getting hurt. Fuck the preseason. Fuck training camp. I don’t really give a shit. Give me 20-30 games with a couple of players we need answers on. It shouldn’t matter so much if they didn’t have as good a preseason stretch as a Vesey or a Hunt. Vesey doesn’t solve shit. Hunt doesn’t solve shit. They aren’t winning games, and putting someone else in their place isn’t losing games either. It’s infuriating really. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 37 minutes ago, Pete said: Yea, I don't really agree with that. He got better over the course of a full season. The kids in the playoffs, look— it remains to be see what carries over. The games I've watched, they look like the same team. Lafreniere is the only one who looks even a bit better than last year. Kakko still Kakka Chytil still Shittle Goat still rocking the same move wide that didn't work the other 493 times he tried it Hajek still trash Kravtsov left his moves in the KHL I'd have liked to see someone come in and take a spot, and someone actually did. Unfortunately his name is Jimmy Vesey. he wasn’t great the last game. And again, he should be, as I’ve been saying. and as I’ve been saying, I’d much rather give that time to Kakko or Kravtsov to get them ready for post season play. This season, and next season, and after. they either put Vesey in a spot, and trade for an upgrade at the deadline, or you try to develop your guys, and you can make a trade at the deadline. Yeah, they’ll be some issues. But anyone else you put there has issues too. This team is perfectly strong enough to overcome and slight WAR from Vesey to anyone else, in a worst case scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I’m so tired of hearing about journeymen like Vesey, who couldn’t get more than a PTO from anyone in the league, “earn” spots because they were good for a short training camp and in a few preseason games. We talk about sample sizes all of the time, yet they don’t apply in these situations. Blais was a superstar in camp last year, then he had 0 goals in 14 games before getting hurt. Fuck the preseason. Fuck training camp. I don’t really give a shit. Give me 20-30 games with a couple of players we need answers on. It shouldn’t matter so much if they didn’t have as good a preseason stretch as a Vesey or a Hunt. Vesey doesn’t solve shit. Hunt doesn’t solve shit. They aren’t winning games, and putting someone else in their place isn’t losing games either. It’s infuriating really. I think you're the one putting too much stock in training camp. It's not like the team who breaks camp will be the team for 82 games, but they need a lineup for game 1 and they are trying to win games so they're going to dress the team that gives them the best chance to win that night. Now, the bigger concern is that no one on the bubble outplayed Vesey. So they won't get that spot. But they may after 5, 10 or 15 games. They may in February. Who knows? I have no issue with Vesey making the team. He's played well and he's versatile. He'll also be waived if he ties his laces wrong. I have an issue with Kakko being same old same old and Kravtsov not showing a glimmer of anything and Gauthier just Gauthiering. Fuck them, take the spot from Vesey, if he's just a journeymen who couldn’t get more than a PTO from anyone in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pete said: I think you're the one putting too much stock in training camp. It's not like the team who breaks camp will be the team for 82 games, but they need a lineup for game 1 and they are trying to win games so they're going to dress the team that gives them the best chance to win that night. Now, the bigger concern is that no one on the bubble outplayed Vesey. So they won't get that spot. But they may after 5, 10 or 15 games. They may in February. Who knows? I have no issue with Vesey making the team. He's played well and he's versatile. He'll also be waived if he ties his laces wrong. I have an issue with Kakko being same old same old and Kravtsov not showing a glimmer of anything and Gauthier just Gauthiering. Fuck them, take the spot from Vesey, if he's just a journeymen who couldn’t get more than a PTO from anyone in the league ever hand out projects at work? you don’t always give them to steady Steve. Sometimes you give one to Freshman Fred. Give him a challenge. Sure, Steve might be better with his conservative approach but Freds giving you a slightly different look and he’s gaining experience because you know that guy could potentially make you some big bucks in the future. It might not be this month, or this year, but that kids gunna hit. Well, unless you keep giving him paper pusher tasks. Sometimes you gotta lose a few battles to win the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 18 minutes ago, josh said: ever hand out projects at work? you don’t always give them to steady Steve. Sometimes you give one to Freshman Fred. Give him a challenge. Sure, Steve might be better with his conservative approach but Freds giving you a slightly different look and he’s gaining experience because you know that guy could potentially make you some big bucks in the future. It might not be this month, or this year, but that kids gunna hit. Well, unless you keep giving him paper pusher tasks. Sometimes you gotta lose a few battles to win the war. Sports and office jobs have nothing in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Pete said: Sports and office jobs have nothing in common. that's why I presented a relatable scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 26 minutes ago, Pete said: I think you're the one putting too much stock in training camp. It's not like the team who breaks camp will be the team for 82 games, but they need a lineup for game 1 and they are trying to win games so they're going to dress the team that gives them the best chance to win that night. Now, the bigger concern is that no one on the bubble outplayed Vesey. So they won't get that spot. But they may after 5, 10 or 15 games. They may in February. Who knows? I have no issue with Vesey making the team. He's played well and he's versatile. He'll also be waived if he ties his laces wrong. I have an issue with Kakko being same old same old and Kravtsov not showing a glimmer of anything and Gauthier just Gauthiering. Fuck them, take the spot from Vesey, if he's just a journeymen who couldn’t get more than a PTO from anyone in the league When are these games happening? Because they only get a chance if someone gets taken out. They aren't going to "outwork him in practice" to get into the lineup. Again. Sample sizes. Who cares if Vesey is better in a few preseason games? Re-roll the same few games and you'll get different results for who outplays who. It's a fickle sport. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, rmc51 said: When are these games happening? Because they only get a chance if someone gets taken out. They aren't going to "outwork him in practice" to get into the lineup. People get hurt. People underperform. What's the big deal if Vesey makes the team and does nothing to lose his spot? Quote Again. Sample sizes. Who cares if Vesey is better in a few preseason games? Re-roll the same few games and you'll get different results for who outplays who. It's a fickle sport. Management should. Until he's not better than anyone he's competing with. You act like Gallant has this set lineup that he doesn't fuck with. The only thing locked in right now is 20+93, 55+23, 8+79. Everything else is penciled. Trocheck might suck with Panarin. Lafreniere might play his way onto Zib's line. Again, you're acting like the lines that show up in practice halfway through pre-season are the lines that you'll see in April. I mean, if they are, it's because it's working. And I don't really care if it's working with Vesey or with Kravtsov. This really just sounds like pouting because the fan-fave prospects aren't getting roles you want to see them in, and not so much about if those fan fave prospects actually deserve the role when the reg season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, Pete said: People get hurt. People underperform. What's the big deal if Vesey makes the team and does nothing to lose his spot? Management should. Until he's not better than anyone he's competing with. You act like Gallant has this set lineup that he doesn't fuck with. The only thing locked in right now is 20+93, 55+23, 8+79. Everything else is penciled. Trocheck might suck with Panarin. Lafreniere might play his way onto Zib's line. Again, you're acting like the lines that show up in practice halfway through pre-season are the lines that you'll see in April. I mean, if they are, it's because it's working. And I don't really care if it's working with Vesey or with Kravtsov. This really just sounds like pouting because the fan-fave prospects aren't getting roles you want to see them in, and not so much about if those fan fave prospects actually deserve the role when the reg season starts. Well when Dryden Hunt plays 76 games + playoffs, it might be an indicator that "winning a lineup spot" might be more permanent than you might believe. It's not about favorite prospects. It's about valuable prospects getting a good enough shake before throwing them away if you need to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Well when Dryden Hunt plays 76 games + playoffs, it might be an indicator that "winning a lineup spot" might be more permanent than you might believe. It's not about favorite prospects. It's about valuable prospects getting a good enough shake before throwing them away if you need to. Hunt played 76 games because Krav quit and Kakko got hurt. No one is getting thrown away. I seriously doubt that Kravtsov is getting sent down unless he fantastically craps out, and maybe he should just stay in the US so that then Kakko gets hurt, he can fill in. We also can't talk about this in blanket statements. "I hate when players like Vesey get sports over players like Kravtsov." Vesey is actually playing really well and Kravtsov isn't, so specifics matter. And, maybe they're just giving Vesey reps on the first line so they know what they have in case he needs to move up and slot in there, same as Goodrow. Is it the plan? Maybe not, but it's a plan. Maybe they're giving him a shot to show other teams what he's got in case the Rangers don't sign him. End of the day, I have no issue with a player on a PTO coming in and earning a spot on the team. Why shouldn't Vesey get a job because Kravtsov is a #9 pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 53 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Well when Dryden Hunt plays 76 games + playoffs, it might be an indicator that "winning a lineup spot" might be more permanent than you might believe. It's not about favorite prospects. It's about valuable prospects getting a good enough shake before throwing them away if you need to. I agree with this mostly because Gallant has his guys and focuses more on his guys roles rather than building and developing what is supposed to be core talent. He's stubborn and sticks with players he shouldn't. Like Hunt, Mckegg, Nemeth and Tinordi. These shit players got opportunity over younger players or players that should have gotten more opportunity. Dressing Mckegg constantly instead if trying to get Barron in there. Nemeth and Tinordi over Jones or Hajek. Hunt over Gauthier or Brodzinski. Hunt over Kakko in an elimination game. I love that he tries to find roles for lesser talented players. But his "one of the guys" relationship with HIS players gets predictable and annoying. We all knew Vesey would win him over. We all know Vesey is going to suck and look like shit in a month. The problem is, Gallant doesn't move on with his guys. He tries to get them going by playing them with top lines or by continually playing them despite terrible results. I find he doesn't have that approach with younger players. It's more of a shift by shift evaluation where he has zero issue demoting them to lower lines. Bad shift by Lafreniere? Benched or to the 4th line. Bad shift by Hunt? Gotta get him back out there and get him on track to do........ . whatever it is he does. Jones or Hajek have a breakdown? Benched. Nemeth sucks all game? He's out there late in a tight game.. Need a goal late, but the top six is dead tired? Rooney is out there. Not Chytil. Looking for an offensive talent to play RW in the top 6 because of an in game injury? Goodrow... Not Kakko, not Chytil, not Lafreniere, not Gauthier. Goodrow or Hunt. This year it's going to be Carpenter and Vesey along with Goodrow. 2 going nowhere options that have already shown they barely belong in the league and had many chances over the years to prove otherwise. It's never about who's playing good or looking like they are about to break out. It's getting the grinders and big boys in position to slot up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 It's almost like he's trying to win games... Because he's an NHL coach... And the NHL isn't a developmental league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 54 minutes ago, Pete said: It's almost like he's trying to win games... Because he's an NHL coach... And the NHL isn't a developmental league. Also never underestimate us superior GM and NHL coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 I'm in complete agreement with the Dude's summary above. Just need to add Ol' Man Reaves into that discussion. The difference in length of leashes on which players are held is completely inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 6 hours ago, Pete said: It's almost like he's trying to win games... Because he's an NHL coach... And the NHL isn't a developmental league. You don’t win the cup in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 53 minutes ago, josh said: You don’t win the cup in October. Right, so why you so worried about the lineup on October 4th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 I don’t know what to tell you. You refuse to pay attention to the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 45 minutes ago, josh said: I don’t know what to tell you. You refuse to pay attention to the conversation. I'll just take that as you not having a real answer or rationale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) GG has a responsibility to develop the young players he is given. If they are mediocre enmasse then he is not doing his full job. The kid line is a joke. Chytil is a 3rd line center at best at this point in his career. He might develop further with real support from veteran linemates however his play short the 5-7 game sequence in the playoffs last year suggests that he is a bottom 6 guy. Kakko probably has better play in him than we have seen but he is not a driver of success, more like a decent two-way player whose success will be dependent on meshing with the guys around him. It's not that he doesn't have the tools but he tends to blunder his opportunities and the only way around that is to give him a lot of opportunities until he either figures it out or not. If he doesn't figure it out he wouldn't be the first guy with good tools who couldn't put the puck in the net. Not even the first guy on the kid line. Putting these two guys together is just asking for their collective issues to deep six each other. Then you have the guy who any rational NHL team would have had playing on the 1st or 2nd line last year. He would have been getting PP minutes anywhere else. Instead he is hanging out with the misfits (apparently again) and the Rangers offense is suffering because of it. This spring as we look at Lafreniere's 20 goals and 17 assists at the trading deadline and it suddenly becomes clear to management that they've bungled it again the odds are pretty good that Lafreniere is the guy that goes in the Kane trade. He'll already be looking around the league trying to figure out which offer sheets he will draw and the #1 overall pick a few years ago who looks like a woefully mismanaged (mismangled) but productive player is going to draw offers the Rangers won't want to match. But go ahead GG, do your thing and promote a few of your guys into minutes they shouldn't see. All it's going to cost you is the best prospect on your roster. Edited October 5, 2022 by Br4d sp... spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 I don't know what it is, but I like Jones/Schneider. I know they'll have their moments at times., but they'll be good! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Pete said: I'll just take that as you not having a real answer or rationale. Nah, we keep repeating it. “It’s just one game of Vesey in October” yeah, you don’t get it. No sense continuing to repeat ourselves to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valriera Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Very much looking forward to see krav on this line who has really been unimpressive so far. If he’s going to show some chemistry it should be now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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