Dreger Rangers Taking Calls on Kaapo Kakko

[LindG1000]

18 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Absolutely. I hate those rumors

Then quash them, Uncle Larry!

[Pete]

29 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Othmann should not go directly to the top 6 as a rookie. I'm excited to see him in blue, but we've seen that movie before. He's probably not cutting into the roster this year either.

 

I was actually thinking Kakko hasn't made a compelling argument after 5 seasons to be untouchable. I'm reading he's too good/important/cheap of a 3rd line wing to trade, and simultaneously doesn't hold enough value to upgrade him. Honestly, I just interpret it as being too timid and scared to make a bold move. For every JT Miller traded too early, there's 100 players who don't pan out like that.

Othmann should occupy the same role he is in Hartford, where he's got 33pts in 40 games. 

 

We haven't seen the movie of young forward finds success in the AHL on the way to the NHL, we've only seen them skip the AHL.

 

I'm not saying Kakko is untouchable. I'm saying the scenarios expressed here don't make sense. 

 

He, alone, doesn't have the value for an upgrade. What GM is going to trade a player who's clearly better, for Kakko? Or any player? So you have to add to that, and still replace Kakko with...a guy like Kakko. I'm not remotely interested in that at the deadline, maybe at the draft, and even then...you're likely selling low.

 

There's really no reason to trade him when you can put together an attractive package for a RW without him. 

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

I'm gonna go on a limb here - why does Pat Verbeek do that? The Ducks are atrocious. They're getting another high pick; it's looking like rebuild 1 went pretty sideways with the core pieces and Drysdale gone - they're oddly directionless. They got Strome and Vatrano and a few others to try and win and that blew up in their faces. They're likely in a spot where they need to step back.

 

I don't know why Kakko appeals to them. They'd probably want someone a little further away.

Why not? Like you said, everything pretty much blew up in their face. They're in hardcore rebuild. Yeah, Kakko hasn't been great, but they can probably work with him. They can get Vatrano off the books, they don't really need him if the plan is to just tank further. Jones is alright, they could perhaps get a first or second round pick and/or maybe another player.

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

Then quash them, Uncle Larry!

The insanes don’t listen to the warden my friend

[LindG1000]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Why not? Like you said, everything pretty much blew up in their face. They're in hardcore rebuild. Yeah, Kakko hasn't been great, but they can probably work with him. They can get Vatrano off the books, they don't really need him if the plan is to just tank further. Jones is alright, they could perhaps get a first or second round pick and/or maybe another player.

 

Because they're still probably 2-3 years away unless everything goes perfectly. Next year, they'll have a small army of 20-year-olds breaking in, but they're a goalie and multiple key pieces away from being in contention. He also doesn't answer questions for them - they have their own Kaapo Kakko's in Lundestrom and Jones.

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, LindG1000 said:

 

Because they're still probably 2-3 years away unless everything goes perfectly. Next year, they'll have a small army of 20-year-olds breaking in, but they're a goalie and multiple key pieces away from being in contention. He also doesn't answer questions for them - they have their own Kaapo Kakko's in Lundestrom and Jones.

Maybe it's something I'm trying to will into existence, but I still wouldn't rule it out. At the very least, they're probably going to get Henrique.

[Bieser]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I don't think Blake Wheeler is going anywhere.....

That's what I say every time he has the puck.  If we get an upgrade at RW and fits in somewhere else...fine.  Don't rule out releasing him. 

[LindG1000]

Just now, Bieser said:

That's what I say every time he has the puck.  If we get an upgrade at RW and fits in somewhere else...fine.  Don't rule out releasing him. 

Nah. They won't release him. It's a politics thing - the dude took a huge pay cut to come here and try and win. It hasn't worked out, but they'll never let him off the team. He may get scratched a few times, but that's as far as it goes.

[BrooksBurner]

24 minutes ago, Pete said:

Othmann should occupy the same role he is in Hartford, where he's got 33pts in 40 games. 

 

We haven't seen the movie of young forward finds success in the AHL on the way to the NHL, we've only seen them skip the AHL.

 

I'm not saying Kakko is untouchable. I'm saying the scenarios expressed here don't make sense. 

 

He, alone, doesn't have the value for an upgrade. What GM is going to trade a player who's clearly better, for Kakko? Or any player? So you have to add to that, and still replace Kakko with...a guy like Kakko. I'm not remotely interested in that at the deadline, maybe at the draft, and even then...you're likely selling low.

 

There's really no reason to trade him when you can put together an attractive package for a RW without him. 

 

I'm pretty sure he's scored most of those points on PP1. Blocked until further notice.

 

I think we have Kakko at about the same value, in that he's a solid young 3rd liner and you don't trade him for a rental. We just disagree that he could or should be used in a deal for an upgrade at the position. Why would another GM do it? Because better players are traded for a mixture of younger talent and assets all of the time.

 

You need Kakko's cap number moved out to absorb a better winger's cap hit (past this year).

Edited February 15 by BrooksBurner

[LindG1000]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Maybe it's something I'm trying to will into existence, but I still wouldn't rule it out. At the very least, they're probably going to get Henrique.

 

If you made me choose between Henrique and Vatrano for this team, I'd pick Vatrano tbh. Henrique fixes the problem of having Johnny Brodzinski at 3c. Vatrano can fix the problem of "we're getting nothing from two of our top players."

 

Cuylle-Brodzinski-Kakko works. I don't know why, but it does. And that's fine. 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I'm pretty sure he's scored most of those points on PP1. Blocked until further notice.

 

I think we have Kakko at about the same value, in that he's a solid young 3rd liner and you don't trade him for a rental. We just disagree that he could or should be used in a deal for an upgrade at the position. Why would another GM do it? Because better players are traded for a mixture of younger talent and assets all of the time.

When that young talent is at the peak of their value maybe, but that ain't where we are today with him. 

 

I'm also not all that interested in getting much older. 

[Sharpshooter]

16 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

If you made me choose between Henrique and Vatrano for this team, I'd pick Vatrano tbh. Henrique fixes the problem of having Johnny Brodzinski at 3c. Vatrano can fix the problem of "we're getting nothing from two of our top players."

 

Cuylle-Brodzinski-Kakko works. I don't know why, but it does. And that's fine. 

Same. It's really not helping things that Mika is having maybe his worst year as a Ranger, at least in the goal-scoring department.

Edited February 15 by Sharpshooter

[LindG1000]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I'm pretty sure he's scored most of those points on PP1. Blocked until further notice.

 

I think we have Kakko at about the same value, in that he's a solid young 3rd liner and you don't trade him for a rental. We just disagree that he could or should be used in a deal for an upgrade at the position. Why would another GM do it? Because better players are traded for a mixture of younger talent and assets all of the time.

 

You need Kakko's cap number moved out to absorb a better winger's cap hit (past this year).

 

I do not think this is true.

 

We're currently committed to 10 forwards, 4 defenders, and one goalie for next season. We have around 14.5M in space with that setup.

 

Kakko has barely earned a raise. If he gets 2.3, that's probably a lot. Now we're at 11 forwards and 12.2M.

ELC for 12 and 13 on the forwards. Down to 10.4M

Lindgren probably gets 4.5-5. Schneider gets 3. Backup goalie gets 1. That's 1.4M in space remaining for a 7d. If Chytil cannot come back, it's nearly 6m for a 3c + 7d

 

No cap crunch here. 

 

It gets far more interesting when we need to consider Miller and Lafreniere and Shesterkin in 2025, but by then, Goodrow and Trouba are very much up for a decision.

 

[LindG1000]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Same. It's really not helping things that Mike is having maybe his worst year as a Ranger, at least in the goal-scoring department.

 

Getting him going at 5v5 is the single best thing we can do for this team. Find the RW that reminds him that he's Mika fucking Zibanejad, and we're golden.

[Ozzy]

Credit to the G man for making lots of sense today.

 

Whether you agree with him or not, it's a lot to digest, but it helps to understand pretty much some valid reasons as to where we stand and what may or may not come of the situation we're in.

 

Great work man! 

[BrooksBurner]

8 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

I do not think this is true.

 

We're currently committed to 10 forwards, 4 defenders, and one goalie for next season. We have around 14.5M in space with that setup.

 

Kakko has barely earned a raise. If he gets 2.3, that's probably a lot. Now we're at 11 forwards and 12.2M.

ELC for 12 and 13 on the forwards. Down to 10.4M

Lindgren probably gets 4.5-5. Schneider gets 3. Backup goalie gets 1. That's 1.4M in space remaining for a 7d. If Chytil cannot come back, it's nearly 6m for a 3c + 7d

 

No cap crunch here. 

 

It gets far more interesting when we need to consider Miller and Lafreniere and Shesterkin in 2025, but by then, Goodrow and Trouba are very much up for a decision.

 

 

 

Lindgren - 4.5

Schneider - 2

Kakko - 2.4 (QO)

ELC contracts to fill out the lineup.

 

Leaves you with 2.2M in space and Jones/Harpur-like-object as your 6/7. There's too many questions surrounding Chytil to plan on his cap hit being available in the summer or to absorb anything substantial being added to the lineup here. He'd essentially have to retire before summer hits to be guaranteed of anything, but let's hope that's not the case for his sake.

[LindG1000]

31 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

 

Lindgren - 4.5

Schneider - 2

Kakko - 2.4 (QO)

ELC contracts to fill out the lineup.

 

Leaves you with 2.2M in space and Jones/Harpur-like-object as your 6/7. There's too many questions surrounding Chytil to plan on his cap hit being available in the summer or to absorb anything substantial being added to the lineup here. He'd essentially have to retire before summer hits to be guaranteed of anything, but let's hope that's not the case for his sake.

 

So...you did the math and came up with pretty much what I did?

 

Chytil is better than any free agent we could reasonably consider adding short of a major trade (one of the huge contracts). He's also one of the roster spots that if you know he isn't coming back, you could actually fill within the confines of free agency without killing yourself long-term.

 

Short of moving Goodrow, which would be nice, we're probably going to be adding around the fringes again, specifically for depth forwards and a 7th D. And that's totally okay, because this years FA is going to be a lot like last years, with a lot of guys settling on less money because there simply isn't that much to go around.

[LindG1000]

47 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Credit to the G man for making lots of sense today.

 

Whether you agree with him or not, it's a lot to digest, but it helps to understand pretty much some valid reasons as to where we stand and what may or may not come of the situation we're in.

 

Great work man! 

 

Thanks. 

I don't want to discount that there may be some deals that make a lot of sense for us. To @BrooksBurner's point around an upgrade - we really can't take a big upgrade with term on RW without moving money out, and short of a truly excellent fit being made available, we're just not going to do that.

 

I'm not discounting the possibility that an excellent fit does come through. You can see them already if the dominoes fall right. But we're not at the point where we should be saying concretely that Kakko needs to go for us to make the cup-winning move.

 

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, LindG1000 said:

 

Thanks. 

I don't want to discount that there may be some deals that make a lot of sense for us. To @BrooksBurner's point around an upgrade - we really can't take a big upgrade with term on RW without moving money out, and short of a truly excellent fit being made available, we're just not going to do that.

 

I'm not discounting the possibility that an excellent fit does come through. You can see them already if the dominoes fall right. But we're not at the point where we should be saying concretely that Kakko needs to go for us to make the cup-winning move.

 

 

It's pretty likely something's going to happen, and I seem to be flip-flopping every day as to what I think we should get.  I like the idea of adding a center, and then I think maybe a RW for Zibby and Kreider should be brought in.

 

Brodzinsky clouds the scene now because that 3rd line is really clicking, and their 2-way play is really what I think we need on that line, along with some offensive production of late.

 

Maybe we're good with Brodz??  I don't know.

Kakko I'm good with.  He's working well on the 3rd line because I think right now, that's his game.  I think there's more there, but that has yet to be seen.

Cuylle is the MAN!  That guy is just pure GOLD!

 

It's the logic that you appeal to that helps digest what can happen and more importantly "WHY?". 

That helps explain a lot.

[BrooksBurner]

15 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

So...you did the math and came up with pretty much what I did?

 

Chytil is better than any free agent we could reasonably consider adding short of a major trade (one of the huge contracts). He's also one of the roster spots that if you know he isn't coming back, you could actually fill within the confines of free agency without killing yourself long-term.

 

Short of moving Goodrow, which would be nice, we're probably going to be adding around the fringes again, specifically for depth forwards and a 7th D. And that's totally okay, because this years FA is going to be a lot like last years, with a lot of guys settling on less money because there simply isn't that much to go around.

 

Roughly, and I don't know how you are that close on the math and don't see why Kakko's cap hit would probably need to go in order to upgrade top 6 RW. 2.2 in space isn't doing anything. 2.2 + 2.4 might. I'd be willing to eat the Goodrow buyout if it meant freeing up that last little bit required, but that depends on the quality of who you can get for the top 6.

 

Adding around the fringes is OK if the fringe doesn't include top 6, such that they need to dump more assets for a top 6 RW rental again at next year's deadline.

Edited February 15 by BrooksBurner

[RangersIn7]

40 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Roughly, and I don't know how you are that close on the math and don't see why Kakko's cap hit would probably need to go in order to upgrade top 6 RW. 2.2 in space isn't doing anything. 2.2 + 2.4 might. I'd be willing to eat the Goodrow buyout if it meant freeing up that last little bit required, but that depends on the quality of who you can get for the top 6.

 

Adding around the fringes is OK if the fringe doesn't include top 6, such that they need to dump more assets for a top 6 RW rental again at next year's deadline.

If you’re talking about moving on from Goodrow, I’d prefer a trade and retain as opposed to a buyout.

 

 

[Long live the King]

3 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

If you’re talking about moving on from Goodrow, I’d prefer a trade and retain as opposed to a buyout.

 

 

 

Retaining doesn't help.  If you retain 50%, you only get $1.8 million in cap space.  You then have to pay for Goodrow's replacement.  At that point it's not worth it.  Better to either keep him or buy him out.  Unless they find someone to take him without retention, I'd keep him for next year and buy him out in the summer of 2025.

[RangersIn7]

16 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Retaining doesn't help.  If you retain 50%, you only get $1.8 million in cap space.  You then have to pay for Goodrow's replacement.  At that point it's not worth it.  Better to either keep him or buy him out.  Unless they find someone to take him without retention, I'd keep him for next year and buy him out in the summer of 2025.

I don’t see home going anywhere this summer. But I don’t want another guy on dead cap for 6 seasons. That’s not palatable. 
 

As for having to pay for his replacement, I hear you. 
But if you’re replacing him with a guy from the minors, it’s cheap. 
Just depends. 

 

Edited February 15 by RangersIn7

[Long live the King]

17 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I don’t see home going anywhere this summer. But I don’t want another guy on dead cap for 6 seasons. That’s not palatable. 
 

As for having to pay for his replacement, I hear you. 
But if you’re replacing him with a guy from the minors, it’s cheap. 
Just depends. 

 

 

Sure it's cheap, but in the end, after retention, you're only saving about a million bucks, while losing the pick you have to staple to Goodrow to get a team to take him.  

[BrooksBurner]

21 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Sure it's cheap, but in the end, after retention, you're only saving about a million bucks, while losing the pick you have to staple to Goodrow to get a team to take him.  

You wouldn’t retain and attach a pick. It’s one or the other, really. And if it there’s no takers then it’d just be a buyout.

 

I would guess it’s pretty likely that Goodrow won’t be here next year, unless he has a phenomenal playoff and/or the Rangers win a Cup with what’s already here this year.

Edited February 15 by BrooksBurner