The Struggle Continues with Kaapo Kakko

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

Kakko needs to shoot...period.  He makes a million moves to get a look and then passes the opportunity WAY TOO MUCH for my liking.  He has a fucking missile of a wrist shot and it's simply wasting away.

 

I love the kid to death, but I'm gonna go down to the glass next game, punch him in the damn helmet, and wake him the hell up!  LOL

It's not just him. It's the whole line. That's the point I'm illustrating. 

[RangersIn7]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

I already replied to a lot of the points about Laf, so I'm not going to address that again, Panarin has 40 shots and Mika and CK have 30. Panarin has 20 more total shot attempts than Mika and 40 more than Krieder. 

 

They're just not shooting the puck enough. 

I totally agree.

Too much of cycling and holding the puck and waiting for or trying to create that perfect attempt.

 

But….

 

Other than Mika on a one-timer, none of them want to shoot it.

Not consistently at least.

 

As I believe you mentioned, a volume shooter on their RW is what they need.

Unless they can get Kakko to do that, or one of them will do that,  it isn’t going to work.

 

 

 

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

It's not just him. It's the whole line. That's the point I'm illustrating. 

 

I'm reserved to thinking that Kreider is solely a "net-front" presense now, Pete.  ...and you're right; Mika hardly ever shoots unless it a one-timer from the left circle.  They aren't doing dick for this kid yet.

 

Fortunately I think Kakko has the ability to create space for himself, which we've seen.  I just wish he would be greedy and take those shots.  Kreider has to get his ass to the net faster, so that the kid can use him as a screen, or to get a tip/rebound.

 

I watched Kreider get to the net really quickly on that tying goal Saturday night, but at 5v5 he seems to lumber to get there with Mika and Kakko.  On the PP, he makes a living, and basically gets his mail forwarded to that crease.  LOL 

 

[Keirik]

42 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I mostly agree with you here. BUT he's most certainly a passenger on the line. I don't mean that as an insult either. That's what his role is. He doesn't have to carry the puck. He doesn't have to make many decisions.  Just get open and anticipate the play. Use hockey sense. 

 

He's playing very well and I'm really happy with his play.  He's getting to where he needs to be on the ice. He's finding shooting lanes. He's going to the front of the net for tap ins. He's skating hard. You can see the effort. 

 

At times he does questionable things with the puck on zone entries,  but that is hopefully just brain farts and left over habits that will be filtered out of him. 

 

 

I guess it comes down to what someone views as a "passenger."  Bread is the world class player on that line and is playing at a level from his first year here. It's the job of the other guys on that line then to compliment that. I think Laffy is. He's open to accept passes, he's going to open areas, etc. I think this good start. I've also seen him open up for a one timer like he did in Vancouver for a nice goal. I've seen him do things he's not done in the past. Like I said, still a work in progress but Inlike what I'm seeing this far. 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Kakko contrarily, seems to just be stuck in the mud right now. Doesn’t seem outright lost but he’s approaching that, really doesn’t fit with the guys he’s playing with, and just isn’t shooting the puck.

 

Story of his career. Approaching 250 games. Five NHL seasons. Billed as a "complete player," with "no room for improvement," and hasn't even scored 20 goals in a single season.

 

Remember when everyone got mad because Panarin apparently said he didn't want to play with Kakko? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[Br4d]

45 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I guess it comes down to what someone views as a "passenger."  Bread is the world class player on that line and is playing at a level from his first year here. It's the job of the other guys on that line then to compliment that. I think Laffy is. He's open to accept passes, he's going to open areas, etc. I think this good start. I've also seen him open up for a one timer like he did in Vancouver for a nice goal. I've seen him do things he's not done in the past. Like I said, still a work in progress but Inlike what I'm seeing this far. 

 

Laffy is constantly on the edge this year and it could go either way.

 

He's got 5 points in 11 games.  If he gets 4 in the next 4 games he's still going good but if he gets 1, like he's gotten in the last 4...

 

I can't quite put my finger on it and it clearly is not from a lack of effort this season but he's streaky as hell and as likely to flame out as to burn hot.

 

Edit:  I think the quality he is missing is self-starter and I'm not sure you can be a plus player in the NHL without that.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Br4d

[RichieNextel305]

Kakko moved off top line. 

 

[Ozzy]

Tell me I'm crazy, but Trouba has been absolutely fabulous to this point.

[Jdog99]

32 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Kakko moved off top line. 

 

 

Good move IMO.

 

And if Tro clicks in with Panarin & Laf, you could have Chytil coming back to centering Culle & Kakko - could see that being a very tough line to deal with.

[Scott]

Man they need to find a top line RW, somehow.  Taking guys who have been awful and don't deserve to be up there and rotating through them isn't a recipe for success imo, Vesey would of been a better choice because he has a pulse and can at least move at this stage but he would still just be a placeholder.

 

- Captain Obvious

 

 

Jdogg - tough line to deal with in what way?

 

 

[Albatrosss]

32 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

 

Good move IMO.

 

And if Tro clicks in with Panarin & Laf, you could have Chytil coming back to centering Culle & Kakko - could see that being a very tough line to deal with.

i kinda like that 3rd line

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Kakko moved off top line. 

 

Meh.

 

I expected Wheeler to be put on line 1.  Thats a good move. But keep Bonino on the 4th line. He's too slow. He's really good defensively,  but I'd rather Goodrow be Kakkos center until Trocheck gets pushed back down to 3C. 

 

No matter what, I think this is going to get production out of Kakko. He just didn't fit with 20/93. 

[Valriera]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Tell me I'm crazy, but Trouba has been absolutely fabulous to this point.

You are not, and he hasn't even needed to throw any helmets this year

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Story of his career. Approaching 250 games. Five NHL seasons. Billed as a "complete player," with "no room for improvement," and hasn't even scored 20 goals in a single season.

 

Remember when everyone got mad because Panarin apparently said he didn't want to play with Kakko? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Yeah… I don’t know about him.

 

Hes grown as a player. And does a lot of good things, and you trust him on the ice…,but he doesn’t cash in enough on the score sheet.

 

I actually think he’d do fine if he’d shoot more, but CK and Zib are kind of set together and just so want to do their own thing that he just isn’t going to force anything. He 

 

 

The Kid Line was the kid line… and they were up and down and inconsistent as kids are gonna be, when they’re all playing together, and limited ice time and no vet to direct things and all of that, and you got flashes and streaks but big stretches of minimal production.
 

So you split them up. And you get what you’ve got.

 

I don’t know what’s what between Panarin and Kakko, but it’s been a while.

Maybe you talk to them and try again?

IDK

I also think of splitting CK and Zib.

They don’t go at ES, so why not split them?

 

I like the idea of CK-Trochek-Kakko

Behind… Panarin-Zib-LaFreniere 

 

But then you’re bottom-6 is some jumble of

Chytil/Bonino/Goodrow/Vesey/Cuylle/Wheeler.

 

If that’s the bottom-6, you need another very good forward with some offensive upside to mix in, one that can be responsible yet flexible yet can provide some punch and all of that.

 

They really need a Swiss Army Knife player with some skill. 

 

Not the easiest player to find or acquire, but they do exist.

Edited November 6, 2023 by RangersIn7

[RangerDanger]

30 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Meh.

 

I expected Wheeler to be put on line 1.  Thats a good move. But keep Bonino on the 4th line. He's too slow. He's really good defensively,  but I'd rather Goodrow be Kakkos center until Trocheck gets pushed back down to 3C. 

 

No matter what, I think this is going to get production out of Kakko. He just didn't fit with 20/93. 

Just thinking the same thing - Wheeler on that 1st line is worth a shot. Maybe he can set up Mika, or throw shots at the net for Kreids to scoop in......dunno, anything to get them going. 

Also not a fan of Bonino on the 3rd line, he's too slow and I think Goody would've been a better anchor for Kakko & Cuylle, in terms of slightly more energy & speed.

[Phil]

41 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah… I don’t know about him.

 

Hes grown as a player. And does a lot of good things, and you trust him on the ice…,but he doesn’t cash in enough on the score sheet.

 

I actually think he’d do fine if he’d shoot more, but CK and Zib are kind of set together and just so want to do their own thing that he just isn’t going to force anything. He 

 

 

The Kid Line was the kid line… and they were up and down and inconsistent as kids are gonna be, when they’re all playing together, and limited ice time and no vet to direct things and all of that, and you got flashes and streaks but big stretches of minimal production.
 

So you split them up. And you get what you’ve got.

 

I don’t know what’s what between Panarin and Kakko, but it’s been a while.

Maybe you talk to them and try again?

IDK

I also think of splitting CK and Zib.

They don’t go at ES, so why not split them?

 

I like the idea of CK-Trochek-Kakko

Behind… Panarin-Zib-LaFreniere 

 

But then you’re bottom-6 is some jumble of

Chytil/Bonino/Goodrow/Vesey/Cuylle/Wheeler.

 

If that’s the bottom-6, you need another very good forward with some offensive upside to mix in, one that can be responsible yet flexible yet can provide some punch and all of that.

 

They really need a Swiss Army Knife player with some skill. 

 

Not the easiest player to find or acquire, but they do exist.

 

You're asking for Jesper Fast, who never should have been left to walk in the first place. @Drew a Penalty

[RangersIn7]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

You're asking for Jesper Fast, who never should have been left to walk in the first place. @Drew a Penalty

Yeah… he’d fit.

 

Or Buch too.

 

 

But let’s forget that cause it’s not attainable.

 

Blake Coleman?

[Keirik]

In reality, would we be fine if Kakko is Jesper Fast though? I lm not much into metrics but if they say he's okay defensively on that line, then we aren't talking a huge difference IMO, so why the move?  

 

Also, moving kakko off line 1 kind of is nearing trade me time, no? If he's not a fit with bread, not a fit with the ziby line........then what? 

[Pete]

There's no reason to trade him, he's a valuable defensive player and one that is not going to cost you a ton of money.

[Ozzy]

...and yet, didn't Laviolette say he was "pleased" with him....or something along those lines.

 

He's got what it takes, I just see more in him.  I just wish he'd shoot more!  ...like everytime he got within 20 feet of the net.

[BrooksBurner]

25 minutes ago, Keirik said:

In reality, would we be fine if Kakko is Jesper Fast though? I lm not much into metrics but if they say he's okay defensively on that line, then we aren't talking a huge difference IMO, so why the move?  

 

Also, moving kakko off line 1 kind of is nearing trade me time, no? If he's not a fit with bread, not a fit with the ziby line........then what? 

He’ll never be Jesper Fast though. Fast was quick on the forecheck (Quickie!) and a heart on his chest player.  Kakko is neither of these things. He’s an effective forechecker in a different way (more like effective cycler), but he’s not typically going to be the first man in nor does he throw the body around (Fun fact: Fast had more hits last season than Kakko has in his career). I think this is why Kakko meshed well with Chytil. Chytil gets in quickly on the forecheck.

Edited November 6, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Ozzy]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

There's no reason to trade him, he's a valuable defensive player and one that is not going to cost you a ton of money.

 

I think this is really the heart of all of this.  The kid won't cost a lot, and his upside potential should be valuable down the pike a bit.

[Phil]

33 minutes ago, Pete said:

There's no reason to trade him, he's a valuable defensive player and one that is not going to cost you a ton of money.

 

Not yet. Because he's still on a good AAV. That might change come next contract. I've no desire to keep this player north of $4 million. I'm not even sure I want him at $4 million.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah… I don’t know about him.

 

Hes grown as a player. And does a lot of good things, and you trust him on the ice…,but he doesn’t cash in enough on the score sheet.

 

I actually think he’d do fine if he’d shoot more, but CK and Zib are kind of set together and just so want to do their own thing that he just isn’t going to force anything. He 

 

 

The Kid Line was the kid line… and they were up and down and inconsistent as kids are gonna be, when they’re all playing together, and limited ice time and no vet to direct things and all of that, and you got flashes and streaks but big stretches of minimal production.
 

So you split them up. And you get what you’ve got.

 

I don’t know what’s what between Panarin and Kakko, but it’s been a while.

Maybe you talk to them and try again?

IDK

I also think of splitting CK and Zib.

They don’t go at ES, so why not split them?

 

I like the idea of CK-Trochek-Kakko

Behind… Panarin-Zib-LaFreniere 

 

But then you’re bottom-6 is some jumble of

Chytil/Bonino/Goodrow/Vesey/Cuylle/Wheeler.

 

If that’s the bottom-6, you need another very good forward with some offensive upside to mix in, one that can be responsible yet flexible yet can provide some punch and all of that.

 

They really need a Swiss Army Knife player with some skill. 

 

Not the easiest player to find or acquire, but they do exist.

Chytil shouldn't be on a 3rd line. Leave the Panarin-Chytil-Lafrenière line together. It's working. 

 

But everything else can be mixed and matched if Wheeler doesn't make the top line look like a cohesive unit. 

 

I liked the idea of Cuylle-Zibanejad-Kakko.  Who ever thought that one up (here) was thinking outside the box and was looking for something that hasn't been tried yet.

 

We know Kreider fits with Trocheck.  We know Kakko doesn't fit with Zibanejad and Kreider. But we don't know if Kakko fits with Zibanejad and another player. Or Kreider and another center. 

 

The next step in fixing the Zibanejad line (if Wheeler doesn't work) is to separate Kreider and Zibanejad.  Have at it with the possibilities. Just leave the Panarin line alone  (with Chytil). 

[Scott]

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I think this is really the heart of all of this.  The kid won't cost a lot, and his upside potential should be valuable down the pike a bit.

Honest question at what point do we drop the holding out hope or worse assuming there's upside potential and accept he is what he is, what he's shown to be to date 250 games in. Yes he will remain cheap because he completely continues to underdeliver on expectations. He be defensively responsible. 

 

I think he'll get moved rather than being a guy who sticks around in that kinda of roll, just my two cents.