The Struggle Continues with Kaapo Kakko

[Pete]

39 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

One side of the puck.*

 

He's on pace for 13 points and 8 or 9 goals.

 

I agree there's no reason to walk away from him yet, but he only has one more year of that being true. When he needs another deal and he's still at Joel Ward levels of production, I pass. Especially if the guys we hope are knocking on the door at the time... are. I'd much rather see what they have in Brett Berard or Brennan Othmann than give Kakko $4 million to kill penalties.

 

40 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

One side of the puck.*

 

He's on pace for 13 points and 8 or 9 goals.

 

I agree there's no reason to walk away from him yet, but he only has one more year of that being true. When he needs another deal and he's still at Joel Ward levels of production, I pass. Especially if the guys we hope are knocking on the door at the time... are. I'd much rather see what they have in Brett Berard or Brennan Othmann than give Kakko $4 million to kill penalties.

You can't act like he didn't have a 40 point season last year because he started cold this year. 

[Phil]

9 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

I have him ear marked as a place holder for another year or 2 until Perrault is ready.  I don't really care about his pace 20 games in.  I trust Kakko's all around game on the top line more than either Othmann or Berard as rookies.  That said, here is my question. 

 

How much Does Gus like playing for Lavi and in New York?  Can you sign Gus in the $5-6 million dollar range and would Arizona give you Connor Geekie for a package built around Miller and either Chytil/Kakko?

 

Hard pass.

 

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

You can't act like he didn't have a 40 point season last year because he started cold this year. 

 

I'm not acting. I'm asking what have you done for me lately? Last year, he was good on both sides of the puck. This year, he's good on one. He's where offense goes to die, currently.

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

I'm not acting. I'm asking what have you done for me lately? Last year, he was good on both sides of the puck. This year, he's good on one. He's where offense goes to die, currently.

 

Hey man, can we revisit this in about 20 games??  ...around the 1/2 way part of the season?  Currently his offense is pretty much shit.  I doubt it stays that way;  we've seen his flashes of offense.  He has the tools.

 

Now, if he would put them to use....THAT would be great!

[Long live the King]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Hard pass.

 

 

I'm not acting. I'm asking what have you done for me lately? Last year, he was good on both sides of the puck. This year, he's good on one. He's where offense goes to die, currently.

 

He's now 60+ minutes into being centered by Bonino and we're expecting an offensive breakout?  Again the biggest whole on the roster is Chytil's status.

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Hard pass.

 

 

I'm not acting. I'm asking what have you done for me lately? Last year, he was good on both sides of the puck. This year, he's good on one. He's where offense goes to die, currently.

Well then you let him play through his cold streak the same as you let any other player play through their cold streak. It's not like we're dripping in right wings.

 

Going back to the original point, there's no reason to move him. 

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well then you let him play through his cold streak the same as you let any other player play through their cold streak. It's not like we're dripping in right wings.

 

Going back to the original point, there's no reason to move him. 

Is there a return there for him that you like right now?

 

I don’t think so.

 
Still so young

Yes… he’s not going offensively, but you also aren’t playing him big minutes in a top-6 role right now.

His game has grown tremendously since he entered the league.

 
Many players see this kind of path, career trajectory, whatever you call it…

And the offense is the last thing to come.

 

 

Ride it out.

He has value in a role right now for what he’s making.

 

Its fine

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

He's now 60+ minutes into being centered by Bonino and we're expecting an offensive breakout?  Again the biggest whole on the roster is Chytil's status.

 

Agree re: Chytil. Do not agree re: Kakko. He was given like 11 straight games with Kreider and Zib and he's been given PP time, too. Nothing is working.

 

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well then you let him play through his cold streak the same as you let any other player play through their cold streak. It's not like we're dripping in right wings.

 

Going back to the original point, there's no reason to move him. 

 

Yet.

[Sharpshooter]

He'll get traded in a package deal to help bring Kane back. 

[BrooksBurner]

There’s a difference between moving him in a package deal for a more immediately productive player, and moving him in a “cut bait” manner (draft pick). There’s plenty of reason to do the former. There’s no reason to do the latter. “No reason to move” is too simplistic when it’s not a black and white thing.

[Pete]

29 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yet

Probably ever. The problem is these conversations are always had when a player is playing their worst, when he finds his offensive game you're not going to be able to get a player who gives you what he's giving you and is cost controlled.

 

You admitted yourself your POV is based around recency bias, the team won't have that POV.

 

If he's traded in a package it'd be as a throw in to make cap work. They wouldn't be walking away for any other reason. I seriously doubt any team is calling about him. 

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Probably ever. The problem is these conversations are always had when a player is playing their worst, when he finds his offensive game you're not going to be able to get a player who gives you what he's giving you and is cost controlled.

 

You admitted yourself your POV is based around recency bias, the team won't have that POV.

 

If he's traded in a package it'd be as a throw in to make cap work. They wouldn't be walking away for any other reason. I seriously doubt any team is calling about him. 

 

I don't agree with this. If he's a 40-point player, he's a $4 million player (or more, with rising cap) on his next deal. I don't have much appetite for keeping that player at that price tag at all.

 

 

He just doesn't do enough to warrant it, despite the math likely supporting the asking price. I'd much rather sink bigger money into better players who do more, and do it more consistently. The team already has enough danger zone deals (Chytil, Trocheck, Goodrow).

[BrooksBurner]

53 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

I have him ear marked as a place holder for another year or 2 until Perrault is ready.  I don't really care about his pace 20 games in.  I trust Kakko's all around game on the top line more than either Othmann or Berard as rookies.  That said, here is my question. 

 

How much Does Gus like playing for Lavi and in New York?  Can you sign Gus in the $5-6 million dollar range and would Arizona give you Connor Geekie for a package built around Miller and either Chytil/Kakko?

Not a chance. Trading Kakko should result in immediate help.

 

If you’re looking at Arizona, you add what you need for Keller or Schmaltz. I like Keller more, but a guy like Schmaltz probably makes more sense because he fills the winger hole nicely and can play center if called upon.

[Long live the King]

3 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Not a chance. Trading Kakko should result in immediate help.

 

If you’re looking at Arizona, you add what you need for Keller or Schmaltz. I like Keller more, but a guy like Schmaltz probably makes more sense because he fills the winger hole nicely and can play center if called upon.

 

I'm talking this summer.  Not making that trade now.  I'm more comfortable with a rookie centering Panarin and Laf, than a rookie with Kreider and Zib based on the defensive assignments each team gets.  Additionally, I'm not looking to add cap in the deal, I'm looking for a center on an ELC.  That's the only way I move Miller.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

I don't agree with this. If he's a 40-point player, he's a $4 million player (or more, with rising cap) on his next deal. I don't have much appetite for keeping that player at that price tag at all.

 

 

He just doesn't do enough to warrant it, despite the math likely supporting the asking price. I'd much rather sink bigger money into better players who do more, and do it more consistently. The team already has enough danger zone deals (Chytil, Trocheck, Goodrow).

You're kind of debating against yourself here, because anybody else you want to get to come in and do that is going to cost that. They simply don't have anybody on the right side to take his spot at a cheaper ticket.

 

I don't even think he'll have arbitration rights at his next deal, so this is not a concern at all. 

 

When you say he doesn't do enough it's because you keep looking at it through the lens of the past 20 games. He'll be better than that. 

[Costa]

If we're able to get Shane Pinto's rights, I would consider trading KK24 for Pinto if he's willing to sign with us. 

[Phil]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

You're kind of debating against yourself here, because anybody else you want to get to come in and do that is going to cost that. They simply don't have anybody on the right side to take his spot at a cheaper ticket.

 

I don't even think he'll have arbitration rights at his next deal, so this is not a concern at all. 

 

When you say he doesn't do enough it's because you keep looking at it through the lens of the past 20 games. He'll be better than that. 

 

We don't know that. Let's put a pin in this until we see what Othmann does at the NHL level.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

We don't know that. Let's put a pin in this until we see what Othmann does at the NHL level.

Is he playing RW in HTFD? 

[RangersIn7]

There’s a hockey trade potentially out there on him… but probably not this minute.

 

If he came in on a 4 year deal, and you can keep him for $15 million, you probably do it.

 

Even if he’s only a 3rd liner… while that’s where he is now, he still hasn’t found the best of himself there either.

And I think at worst he’s still able to play up the lineup some too…

 

No hard decision needs to be made on him. 

 

 

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Is he playing RW in HTFD? 

 

Can't say. Berard is, but I know he's a longer shot.

[Drew a Penalty]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Is he playing RW in HTFD? 

 

A mix of both wings. Mostly left, though.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

A mix of both wings. Mostly left, though.

 

Thanks. I know he mentioned a willingness/comfort with playing either side in preseason.

[Drew a Penalty]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Thanks. I know he mentioned a willingness/comfort with playing either side in preseason.

 

Yeah, the option is there if needed. On the PP and at 6 on 5 he's by default lined up at RW just to put him in shooting position. ES has mostly been LW opposite Belzile.

[Sharpshooter]

[BrooksBurner]

Are we about to find out about Berard or Othmann here? I'd rather just let Othmann be for now. Get me Berard.

[Sharpshooter]

Othmann has been putting up points but they're probably going Berard or Brodzinsky. Most likely Brodz, if I had to guess.