The Struggle Continues with Kaapo Kakko

[The Dude]

I know it's just 3 games. He hasn't been "bad". But he also hasn't been very good. 

 

This kid is so strong on the puck and seems to go to all the right places. But he struggles with getting a shot off.

 

How does this happen? We know he has a really good shot. He was drafted as a goal scorer. Yet, he's become more defensively aware to the point that you could call him solid. But where TF did the shooters mentality go? 

 

It's 3 games. It's not overly concerning yet, as all the lines somewhat click. Lafrenière has been world's better (than he was at the end of the season and in camp) to start the season.  I'm excited that he's become useful.  

 

But Kakko...  What are they going to do with the guy? He is such a good kid and has all the traits you want from a youngster. How do you put the pieces back together though? How do you get him to be an aggressive shooter again? 

[Pete]

What are they going to do? Wait more than 3 games to do anything, as they should. He's fine.

 

His metrics are fine, at 5v5 totally inline with Zib and CK. He isn't holding them back.

 

I'd put him over Trochuck on the PP though.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Pete

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

I know it's just 3 games. He hasn't been "bad". But he also hasn't been very good. 

 

This kid is so strong on the puck and seems to go to all the right places. But he struggles with getting a shot off.

 

How does this happen? We know he has a really good shot. He was drafted as a goal scorer. Yet, he's become more defensively aware to the point that you could call him solid. But where TF did the shooters mentality go? 

 

It's 3 games. It's not overly concerning yet, as all the lines somewhat click. Lafrenière has been world's better (than he was at the end of the season and in camp) to start the season.  I'm excited that he's become useful.  

 

But Kakko...  What are they going to do with the guy? He is such a good kid and has all the traits you want from a youngster. How do you put the pieces back together though? How do you get him to be an aggressive shooter again? 

 

I think you answered your own question here Dude man.  It's only been a couple of games, and this kid has had zero structure since he's been here.  The point you made is spot on about him being a good kid, and having very coach-able traits.  It's just going to take some time for him to adjust and learn what LAvvy is cookin' behind the bench.  He'll get it; he's no dummy, and he's certainly not lazy.  He works hard and I see it...I think we all do.  Guys like that make it.  It takes some time but they do...and he will too!

 

Let's see how it pans out over the course of the season.  I have a feeling the light is going to go on very soon.  He's playing with very good players now, and when he starts shooting with intent to score, he's going to take off.

[Drew a Penalty]

He's third in ES shots on the team with 6 and has 7 total shots across all strengths. He's averaging 2 shots per game which is the highest rate of his career. That's not even accounting for attempts. Maybe actually wait for more than 3 games?

[The Dude]

5 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

He's third in ES shots on the team with 6 and has 7 total shots across all strengths. He's averaging 2 shots per game which is the highest rate of his career. That's not even accounting for attempts. Maybe actually wait for more than 3 games?

Didn't I start off by saying  it's only been 3 games?  Kinda like I'm leading off with good intentions and a possible worrying too much sense of urgency?

 

I'm seeing the same things from him that he's done the last 3 years. Which is pass up way too many shots. I don't care that he's averaging more shots than previous years. It's still not enough. 

 

I'm seeing the same tendencies and I think it needs to be brought up.

 

If you think he looks like he's coming out of that shell because the stats say so (thats always good). Maybe you could have just said that. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

Call me crazy but I think he’s been the best RW on the team so far.  Not that that’s really saying too much.  I still have more concern over Lafraniere.  Other than the handful of plays he made in the opener I haven’t noticed much from my dear beloved donut hole.  

[Pete]

There has never been a Ranger fan who thinks the team takes enough shots. Just like every Ranger fan thinks [Player X] misses the net "too much", no matter how much evidence there is against said positions.

 

Sometimes a player doesn't shoot because there's something happening on the ice that you can't see from your living room.

[The Dude]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

What are they going to do? Wait more than 3 games to do anything, as they should. He's fine.

 

His metrics are fine, at 5v5 totally inline with Zib and CK. He isn't holding them back.

 

I'd put him over Trochuck on the PP though.

I didn't say hes holding them back. 

 

I'm saying he's doing the same things he's been doing, which is pass up good opportunities to shoot. Like ridiculously good chances. 

 

I'm more concerned about getting his full potential out of him. He's obviously gun shy. It's plain as day. 

 

If you think he's going to change.  Cool. I hope he does. I'm seeing the same stuff and I'm concerned. They can leave it alone and keep him there as a plug. I want more from him. 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I didn't say hes holding them back. 

 

I'm saying he's doing the same things he's been doing, which is pass up good opportunities to shoot. Like ridiculously good chances. 

 

I'm more concerned about getting his full potential out of him. He's obviously gun shy. It's plain as day. 

 

If you think he's going to change.  Cool. I hope he does. I'm seeing the same stuff and I'm concerned. They can leave it alone and keep him there as a plug. I want more from him. 

He's not a goal scorer and he never was. He's also playing with 2 guys capable of scoring 50 goals in this league. Any player who plays with them has been looking to set them up, going back to Zucc and Buch.

 

Like we are all saying, it's 3 games. I don't know what "more" you could be expecting, aside from points.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

40 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I know it's just 3 games. He hasn't been "bad". But he also hasn't been very good. 

 

This kid is so strong on the puck and seems to go to all the right places. But he struggles with getting a shot off.

 

How does this happen? We know he has a really good shot. He was drafted as a goal scorer. Yet, he's become more defensively aware to the point that you could call him solid. But where TF did the shooters mentality go? 

 

It's 3 games. It's not overly concerning yet, as all the lines somewhat click. Lafrenière has been world's better (than he was at the end of the season and in camp) to start the season.  I'm excited that he's become useful.  

 

But Kakko...  What are they going to do with the guy? He is such a good kid and has all the traits you want from a youngster. How do you put the pieces back together though? How do you get him to be an aggressive shooter again? 

 

I blame Vince for setting the vibe that Kakko will show up and dominate. For whatever reason, he decided to single Kakko out and write a hype article about him right before the season starts. Kakko looks fine to me. He's not dominating, no, but he's playing a decent game so far. If this is about production, there's only one forward on the team with more than 1 ES point and that's Panarin with 2. The team as a whole hasn't been good at actually producing at ES. Their underlying metrics look good, so maybe that'll come around, but I recall the same scenario at the beginning of last year. They were winning the underlying metric battle, but the production and results weren't there. Then they started losing the underlying metric battle and it got even worse. The team as a whole just needs to start converting more chances. Kakko is included in that, but I wouldn't single him out...yet.

Edited October 18, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[The Dude]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

He's not a goal scorer and he never was. He's also playing with 2 guys capable of scoring 50 goals in this league. Any player who plays with them has been looking to set them up, going back to Zucc and Buch.

 

Like we are all saying, it's 3 games. I don't know what "more" you could be expecting, aside from points.

?? What?

He was drafted for his scoring.

He wasn't known as a set up man. He was known for his ability to shoot from almost anywhere in any location, especially in tight quarters. 

 

I want "more" goals. I want "more" drives to the net for scoring chances. Maybe he changes. Maybe I get "more".  

 

He doesn't belong with 2 guys capable of scoring 50, and I've felt that way since they tried it last year and prior. He shouldn't defer to anyone.  He should be a focal point. This is why he doesn't fit with Panarin and this is why he doesn't fit with Zibanejad. He needs the puck on his stick and he needs to be a trigger man. Otherwise it's a waste of talent. 

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

?? What?

He was drafted for his scoring.

He wasn't known as a set up man. He was known for his ability to shoot from almost anywhere in any location, especially in tight quarters. 

 

I want "more" goals. I want "more" drives to the net for scoring chances. Maybe he changes. Maybe I get "more".  

 

He doesn't belong with 2 guys capable of scoring 50, and I've felt that way since they tried it last year and prior. He shouldn't defer to anyone.  He should be a focal point. This is why he doesn't fit with Panarin and this is why he doesn't fit with Zibanejad. He needs the puck on his stick and he needs to be a trigger man. Otherwise it's a waste of talent. 

He was drafted as a complete offensive player who has the ability to play 1:1, score, or dish. He isn't Brett Hull, Auston Matthews, Ovechkin.

 

According to the stats, he also didn't "fit" with Chytil and Lafreneiere, so maybe people need to rethink what "fit" means when the numbers say that CK, Zib and Krieder were the best offensive line the Rangers iced last season?

 

This conversation is happening way too early in the season.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Pete

[siddious]

We (the fans) suck at developing players as much as the organization does. I know we are not used to itbut this is what it looks like sometimes.

 

Look at Dahlin.. guy was considered a bust for so long. Now look at him. Sometimes you just have to give them time and space and let them get there even if it doesnt look pretty.

 

 

[Jdog99]

As long as the system is working and we're getting W's...all these individual players will have a chance to find their groove and eventually produce.

[Sharpshooter]

I don't think he's looked too bad, not really worried. His good work led to the first goal against Arizona the other night. As what's been the norm for him throughout is his inability to just shoot the puck. We've seen it, it's pretty good, he just doesn't do it nearly enough. That continues to be my main concern with him for the most part.

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

We (the fans) suck at developing players as much as the organization does. I know we are not used to itbut this is what it looks like sometimes.

 

Look at Dahlin.. guy was considered a bust for so long. Now look at him. Sometimes you just have to give them time and space and let them get there even if it doesnt look pretty.

 

 

Indeed. Look, I think the Rangers in the past have been pretty shitty at developing forwards, but I really don't think they're at fault here. Would having them spend time in the AHL hurt? Maybe, maybe not. But I think the Rangers have done everything they could to put these guys in the position to succeed. Again, perfectly handled all of the time? No, but the opportunity has been there. While I still don't think either of them are going to be superstars, we still have to remember they are only in their early 20's. Some players develop differently and at different paces.

[Albatrosss]

He needs to be just a tad quicker.  He's too slow when making his final play, be it a pass or a shot.  

[siddious]

39 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Indeed. Look, I think the Rangers in the past have been pretty shitty at developing forwards, but I really don't think they're at fault here. Would having them spend time in the AHL hurt? Maybe, maybe not. But I think the Rangers have done everything they could to put these guys in the position to succeed. Again, perfectly handled all of the time? No, but the opportunity has been there. While I still don't think either of them are going to be superstars, we still have to remember they are only in their early 20's. Some players develop differently and at different paces.

I dont think they have been "ruined" by any means but they also havent had Jack Hughes ice time to do what they need to do. It's a fact thats easily forgotten.

 

With that said you need to earn ice time, and in a perfect world they do. But the reward is too high to sit on these guys and let them flounder. You gotta let them play. 

[Keirik]

In fairness, it's been less of "it's only been 3 games" and more of "it's 242 games."
 

He's not the only one by any means, but Kappo gets a pass a heck of a lot. 

 

[siddious]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

In fairness, it's been less of "it's only been 3 games" and more of "it's 242 games."
 

He's not the only one by any means, but Kappo gets a pass a heck of a lot. 

 

He has because he has shown moderate improvements.

 

Is he a 2OA quality player? Not by a stretch. It doesn't mean he cant be a top 6 guy with the right ice time. 

[Br4d]

Kakko has the problem all the Rangers have at even strength.  He's not improvisational at all and he doesn't take good shots even when the opportunity presents.

 

This team, like last year and the year before is a passing sequence looking for a shot and too often a good pass turns into another good pass.

 

This is on the players, period.  Too many setup artists and not enough finishers.

[Scott]

28 minutes ago, siddious said:

I dont think they have been "ruined" by any means but they also havent had Jack Hughes ice time to do what they need to do. It's a fact thats easily forgotten.

 

With that said you need to earn ice time, and in a perfect world they do. But the reward is too high to sit on these guys and let them flounder. You gotta let them play. 

To me it's not Jack Hughes ice, it's any ice Hughes steps on and what he does with it. I don't care how much ice time 1OA and 2OA get they'll never be that guy. 

 

Mentioning Hughes in any comparison to our two is just brutally unfair at this point. That ship sailed and sank a long time ago. 

 

Besides let's just sit tight another 3-5 years. 

 

They are what they are. Babysteps. 

[Pete]

18 minutes ago, siddious said:

He has because he has shown moderate improvements.

 

Is he a 2OA quality player? Not by a stretch. It doesn't mean he cant be a top 6 guy with the right ice time. 

Agree, I don't see anyone giving Kakko a "pass", more acknowledging that he's come much further than Lafterniere.

[Scott]

Just now, Pete said:

Agree, I don't see anyone giving Kakko a "pass", more acknowledging that he's come much further than Lafterniere.

Fair point. 

[Br4d]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

Agree, I don't see anyone giving Kakko a "pass", more acknowledging that he's come much further than Lafterniere.

 

To switch it up on you: let's be brutally honest.  The only reason Kakko has come further is because he was so terrible his first 100 odd-games.

 

He's been in the NHL a year longer than Laffy and I'd definitely take Laffy over him right now given what we see on the ice.  Not saying that Laffy is good but Kakko is still a flat player who only seems really comfortable with the puck on his stick and even then rarely turns that into anything other than 20-30 seconds of game time passing with no effect.