Lafrenière Re-Re-Reset: 2023–24 Edition

[Gravesy]

14 hours ago, Pete said:

Nothing weird about it. Nobody has the ability to predict how many more points he'd have. You have some people here saying 15, another group saying 30.

 

It's weird to say no one (especially here) can predict the outcome of something that hasn't happened?

 

 

I mean, that's fair, but that's not really what you've been arguing in this thread is it. Unless I'm grossly misremembering (apologies if so, can't be bothered reading back) your angle has pretty consistently been to cast doubt about whether PP1 time would significantly improve his production. I agree there's a range of outcomes in terms of how much it would be increased and nobody can say for certain, but unless you think he's so bad that his mere presence on PP1 would completely tank the unit something in the 10-20 range is an absolute given.

[Long live the King]

16 hours ago, Br4d said:

You can make an argument that Laf and Fox are the only guys on this roster that will matter in 2029 5 years down the road.

 

I think if you can get him at something like $7M/8 yrs you jump all over that.  I don't think you can get him at that.

 

To the Canadiens he is probably worth $12M-$13M a year for the same term if he proves it next season with a big glance at this year's playoffs also.

 

So if the Rangers believe then they want to get him off the market this summer without him ever getting an offer from the Canadiens.  That probably means $10M/8 yrs.

 

Are you saying the Habs are going to offer sheet him?  I'll take the 4 firsts.

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Gravesy said:

I mean, that's fair, but that's not really what you've been arguing in this thread is it. Unless I'm grossly misremembering (apologies if so, can't be bothered reading back) your angle has pretty consistently been to cast doubt about whether PP1 time would significantly improve his production. I agree there's a range of outcomes in terms of how much it would be increased and nobody can say for certain, but unless you think he's so bad that his mere presence on PP1 would completely tank the unit something in the 10-20 range is an absolute given.

You're entitled to your opinion. 

[Pete]

30 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Are you saying the Habs are going to offer sheet him?  I'll take the 4 firsts.

And he's not getting $10M from NYR for one 60pt season. 

[Br4d]

27 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Are you saying the Habs are going to offer sheet him?  I'll take the 4 firsts.

 

The way the Rangers draft and develop players I wouldn't take 1sts over a young player playing well.

 

No, the issue is, that the Habs (and anybody else who likes him) will take the RFA opportunity to suss out a deal with him and those offers will force the Rangers hand.  You want Laf tied down before he ever gets to the market as a successful player.

 

Also, given the way the NHL works, whoever makes a big offer to Laf is likely to get the worst of the deal.  The team most likely to profit from a big deal is the Rangers, because they know what they have and they know how he fits.

[Long live the King]

40 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

The way the Rangers draft and develop players I wouldn't take 1sts over a young player playing well.

 

No, the issue is, that the Habs (and anybody else who likes him) will take the RFA opportunity to suss out a deal with him and those offers will force the Rangers hand.  You want Laf tied down before he ever gets to the market as a successful player.

 

Also, given the way the NHL works, whoever makes a big offer to Laf is likely to get the worst of the deal.  The team most likely to profit from a big deal is the Rangers, because they know what they have and they know how he fits.

 

You mean the young player playing well that they drafted and developed?  

 

The Rangers draft and develop just fine.  You can't pay Laf $12+ per year.  I'd hate to lose him, but 4 firsts all day.  Especially because the Habs suck and at least the first 2 would likely be top 10 picks.  Also you don't have to make the picks.  When you have 8 firsts over 4 years you can bring in some quality young talent.

[RangersIn7]

8 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

You mean the young player playing well that they drafted and developed?  

 

The Rangers draft and develop just fine.  You can't pay Laf $12+ per year.  I'd hate to lose him, but 4 firsts all day.  Especially because the Habs suck and at least the first 2 would likely be top 10 picks.  Also you don't have to make the picks.  When you have 8 firsts over 4 years you can bring in some quality young talent.

The type of money that a 4 1sts offer sheet requires is beyond Laf at this point.

 

That amount of money is reserved for the games absolute best players. Huge offensive producers. Elite, two-way defensemen. Etc. 
 

Laf has had a great season… for him. He’s really grown and it’s showing this season in the way he’s played.

 

But he’s not in that realm as of yet. 

[Pete]

I can't figure out why a team like Montreal would give up FOUR first round picks for this guy. That would set their team back decades, given that their latest first overall pick is not exactly lighting it up. 

[Gravesy]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

I can't figure out why a team like Montreal would give up FOUR first round picks for this guy. That would set their team back decades, given that their latest first overall pick is not exactly lighting it up. 

They clearly won’t. That seems ludicrous.

[RangersIn7]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

I can't figure out why a team like Montreal would give up FOUR first round picks for this guy. That would set their team back decades, given that their latest first overall pick is not exactly lighting it up. 

That kid is gonna develop similarly to Laf 

Hes gonna be a very very good hockey player.

 But he’s likely to need 4-5 years to get there. 

[LindG1000]

22 minutes ago, Pete said:

I can't figure out why a team like Montreal would give up FOUR first round picks for this guy. That would set their team back decades, given that their latest first overall pick is not exactly lighting it up. 

 

Because the Canadian media is endlessly obsessed with putting every French Canadian player in Montreal.

 

It's stupid.

I'm all for a moderate overpay on Lafreniere to get term - but it's more than we don't know what the cap will look like in three years when the real bill comes due. I'd rather slightly overpay for years 1-2 of a longer deal that meaningfully extends the current window than be pigeonholed into buying 7 years of UFA in a 100M+ cap market to open a new one.

[Sharpshooter]

Montreal fans are obnoxious. It's not the Original Six era (or even before that) where a lot of who went where was territorially-based, so of course a lot of the great players were French Canadian so they wound up there. They are no longer entitled to that.

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

That kid is gonna develop similarly to Laf 

Hes gonna be a very very good hockey player.

 But he’s likely to need 4-5 years to get there. 

That's not the point I'm making. They can't sacrifice 4 first rounders when one is likely to be top five at another likely to be top 10. 

[RangersIn7]

39 minutes ago, Pete said:

That's not the point I'm making. They can't sacrifice 4 first rounders when one is likely to be top five at another likely to be top 10. 

We are making similar points in opposing ways maybe… yet I think we agree.

 

To further articulate…

 

If Montreal were to offer sheet him at the 4 1sts tier… yes.

You take that.

He hasn’t earned that money yet.

And you would likely get a premium asset and at least one more higher-level asset out of that package. Potentially more than that.

 

 

But no one is or should be near that yet.

 

Montreal shouldn’t be willing to do that.

And I’d doubt they are.

They can’t possibly be that stupid.

 

And Laf, despite his very strong season, hasn’t earned that yet.

Though I think you have a player on your hands right now that’s still improving and going to be fantastic moving forward. 

 

That kind of offer sheet is a fantasy that won’t come to fruition.

 

Ask Carolina about Kotkaniemi.

How has that gone?

 

Both ways.

 

 

 

 

 

[LindG1000]

3 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

We are making similar points in opposing ways maybe… yet I think we agree.

 

To further articulate…

 

If Montreal were to offer sheet him at the 4 1sts tier… yes.

You take that.

He hasn’t earned that money yet.

And you would likely get a premium asset and at least one more higher-level asset out of that package. Potentially more than that.

 

 

But no one is or should be near that yet.

 

Montreal shouldn’t be willing to do that.

And I’d doubt they are.

They can’t possibly be that stupid.

 

And Laf, despite his very strong season, hasn’t earned that yet.

Though I think you have a player on your hands right now that’s still improving and going to be fantastic moving forward. 

 

That kind of offer sheet is a fantasy that won’t come to fruition.

 

Ask Carolina about Kotkaniemi.

How has that gone?

 

Both ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kotkaniemi stinks. Lafreniere...doesn't.

[RichieNextel305]

End Result: 28 goals, 29 assists, 82 GP.

Just an extremely big step forward. Everyone had their opinions prior to the year. And rightfully so. Frustration happens. But at age 22, he really took a major leap forward. Looked more confident, had much more jump, found a home on one of the very best lines in the league. He had 28 goals but was also robbed more times than anyone else on the roster it seemed like. That number could easily be more in the mid-30s range with more finishing. And to do this with hardly any PP time makes it even more impressive. 
 

Huge leap forward. Fantastic year. Hope it continues in the playoffs. Because he was also quiet against NJ last year. Hopefully he attacks the playoffs the way he attacked the regular season.

Edited April 16 by RichieNextel305

[Sharpshooter]

Compared to the second half of last season, and the playoffs as you mentioned, it looked like they had a completely different player. But no, it was Laf taking the bull by the horns and giving us a great glimpse into the future. I don't care that Panarin was a beast this year, he looked really damn good anyway. Being in the vicinity of 30 goals, being still only 22, is a great achievement and I think we can officially stop worrying about this kid.

Edited April 16 by Sharpshooter

[Ozzy]

I just keep thinking that he just didn't like playing for Gallant.

 

I watched one of those MSG shorts before a game one night and it was the one with Lindgren.  Michelle asked Lindy who the biggest jokester on the team was, and he said something to the effect that Laff "doesn't have a serious bone in his body".  I can see Gallant like a drill sergeant, and not digging Laff's personality.  I can also see Laff being like "Fuck off, limp dick!"

 

Not that I was even close to being a professional player, but being a supreme goof ball myself, I know there are some people I rub the wrong way with my devil-may-care attitude on life.  I could seriously give a fuck, but they don't, and they make it a point to try and piss in your corn flakes whenever possible.

 

I'm not saying all the work he did over the off-season didn't help immensely, but I'll bet he had a lot more motivation to be "The Laff we see now", as opposed to "I can't wait to get out of this fucking guy's lineup".  I love the way Laviolette handles these guys.  He's created a team unity that I can almost feel.

 

That shit they do at the end of a game isn't just by accident.  These guys really seem to like one another, and play pretty fucking hard for one another to win.  They want it all, and they deserve it! 

Laff deserves a lot of credit for shutting his ears to the "Bust" label he was given and his critics, and then going out and doing what he did this year.  I'll always be behind that kid, and I hope he breaks every record the Rangers have.  @RichieNextel305's right too;  with a little luck, he could easily have 35 goals.  He was robbed more times than a stagecoach in the old west.

 

Keep it rollin' Laff!

[Cash or Czech]

Laf tied for 14th in the NHL with 26 even strength goals. Tied for 36th with 51 even strength points. 2nd on the rangers for EVG and 3rd for EVP. Not a bad season, kid.

[Valriera]

It’s a breakout season no two ways about it. Well done. Proved a lot of ppl wrong. Now it’s “can he take the next step?” 

[LindG1000]

14 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I just keep thinking that he just didn't like playing for Gallant.

 

I watched one of those MSG shorts before a game one night and it was the one with Lindgren.  Michelle asked Lindy who the biggest jokester on the team was, and he said something to the effect that Laff "doesn't have a serious bone in his body".  I can see Gallant like a drill sergeant, and not digging Laff's personality.  I can also see Laff being like "Fuck off, limp dick!"

 

Not that I was even close to being a professional player, but being a supreme goof ball myself, I know there are some people I rub the wrong way with my devil-may-care attitude on life.  I could seriously give a fuck, but they don't, and they make it a point to try and piss in your corn flakes whenever possible.

 

I'm not saying all the work he did over the off-season didn't help immensely, but I'll bet he had a lot more motivation to be "The Laff we see now", as opposed to "I can't wait to get out of this fucking guy's lineup".  I love the way Laviolette handles these guys.  He's created a team unity that I can almost feel.

 

That shit they do at the end of a game isn't just by accident.  These guys really seem to like one another, and play pretty fucking hard for one another to win.  They want it all, and they deserve it! 

Laff deserves a lot of credit for shutting his ears to the "Bust" label he was given and his critics, and then going out and doing what he did this year.  I'll always be behind that kid, and I hope he breaks every record the Rangers have.  @RichieNextel305's right too;  with a little luck, he could easily have 35 goals.  He was robbed more times than a stagecoach in the old west.

 

Keep it rollin' Laff!

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but every passing day with Laviolette makes me angrier and angrier about Gallant. And it's not the attitude mix you're calling out. It's that he was so obviously the wrong coach for that team at that time, and it cost this franchise a lot. And look, maybe it was a necessary growing pain and half the team had a "Fuck you Jobu, I do this myself" moment (and damn, does it sure feel like that was the case for Panarin, Trocheck, Lafreniere, Braden Schneider, and a few others), but I can't shake how Gallant fucked up so badly with the kids and basic ass game management. I think there's an argument that a better coach manages to beat the Lightning in 2022 and possibly win the Cup. I also think there's an argument that a better coach outs the Devils in 5 last year and moves on to god knows what. And, I think there's a very strong argument that a better coach finds this version of Lafreniere, a better version of Kakko, of Chytil, of Miller, of Schneider - far sooner than it's taken.

 

Lafreniere has a bright, bright future in this league, and he plays a playoff-tested game. We should be very, very excited for what we've got here.

[Ozzy]

18 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but every passing day with Laviolette makes me angrier and angrier about Gallant. And it's not the attitude mix you're calling out. It's that he was so obviously the wrong coach for that team at that time, and it cost this franchise a lot. And look, maybe it was a necessary growing pain and half the team had a "Fuck you Jobu, I do this myself" moment (and damn, does it sure feel like that was the case for Panarin, Trocheck, Lafreniere, Braden Schneider, and a few others), but I can't shake how Gallant fucked up so badly with the kids and basic ass game management. I think there's an argument that a better coach manages to beat the Lightning in 2022 and possibly win the Cup. I also think there's an argument that a better coach outs the Devils in 5 last year and moves on to god knows what. And, I think there's a very strong argument that a better coach finds this version of Lafreniere, a better version of Kakko, of Chytil, of Miller, of Schneider - far sooner than it's taken.

 

Lafreniere has a bright, bright future in this league, and he plays a playoff-tested game. We should be very, very excited for what we've got here.

 

Firing on all cylinders here, G Man!  100% man!

[Flynn]

This kid took a lot of shit.. I'm happy as hell for him to have success, I can absolutely see him turning into a 40g 80p guy who is very hard to play against.   

[RangersIn7]

12 minutes ago, Flynn said:

This kid took a lot of shit.. I'm happy as hell for him to have success, I can absolutely see him turning into a 40g 80p guy who is very hard to play against.   

I think that’s the ceiling too.

 

It’s impossible to quantify but if he had a bunch of PP time this year you’re clearly looking a another 5+ goals and another 15+ points. 
He’d have been a 30+ goal, 70+ points this year.

 

[Br4d]

If he finds another half step this off-season he could go to 40+/80+ pretty quickly.