Lafrenière Re-Re-Reset: 2023–24 Edition

[RichieNextel305]

I’ll start this simply by saying (better yet admitting) that I am a fan of this kid. I have long pounded the drum that dealing him early would be something that, if we miss badly on, could be a franchise altering miss by the Rangers. I understand to this point, he hasn’t shown what we had all hoped he would. He came in with all the hype, and in an unusual spot given where we were the year prior and the overall weirdness of the COVID season. And I didn’t mind using that as an excuse for Year 1. It was an unusual way to start your NHL career. Fine. Cool. Understood, defended and noted.

 

That was in 2021. It is now 23-24, and these questions, these same questions are being asked and no real answers have emerged. Now, I do also realize that given the state of the team and given how the prior coach operated, opportunities to move up in the lineup were minimal, special teams were almost nonexistent and the emergence of the Kid Line kind of acted as an umbrella to some other deficiencies.

 

But like I just noted, it is 23-24. He has 2 full NHL seasons under his belt, in addition to the oddball COVID season. He has 2 playoff runs, 2 successful team seasons and plenty of experience now under his belt. Short of a Cup Final appearance, he has seen just about all the NHL will throw at him. Hostile crowds, high octane playoff series, 2 full regular seasons. And what have we really seen? Sure, there have been blips; there have been a few eye popping goals. And by few, I mean, what? 2? 
 

The Rangers were a trendy pick for a Cup run last year at this time by a lot of people. And a lot of that was predicated on our kids jumping up and grabbing their spots. One of the reasons last year was so uneasy was because 2 of the lottery kids didn’t do enough, in the scoresheet, for us to take the next step. Fast forward a year, and with largely the same roster, those same people have questions now about our chances. And it’s because of these 2 kids. In Kakkos spot, at least you have seen growth. Atleast you have hope given the growth that he could emerge. Lafreniere, on the other hand, has remained largely the same as he has since Day 1.

 

For us to take that next step, this team NEEDS Lafreniere to produce. He is being given an opportunity by Laviolette to secure a Top Line spot, and it isn’t just all about a Kid playing with 2 All-Stars. This kid now has his experience and needs to take a jump. The reason people are sleeping on us is because the growth they expected from a Lafreniere wasn’t there last year, and who is to say it will be this year? He, and Kakko, are basically holding our fate in their hands. Another quiet year production wise, and we will more than likely be where we’ve been the last few years, which isn’t a downright awful thing. But if they emerge, this team can really soar. Kakko has given reason to believe we could be on the cusp of something.

 

When will Lafreniere? When will we watch a game and notice him? When will he look like a #1OA pick that was about as highly touted as you could be? We need that guy. And if he doesn’t show up this year, if he doesn’t emerge, Drury is going to be a really hairy spot next summer when it comes to Lafrenieres future on Broadway. I just wonder how long Laviolette gives him to start to get the ball rolling.

Edited September 29, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[The Dude]

 

Well, it's year 4...... and here we are....... again. 

 

Laviolette says Lafrenière is saying all the right things. He praises the kids abilities even if the praises are a huge stretch.  What else is he gonna say? 

 

This RW experiment needs to be followed through though. . I'm tired of the excuses. Whether he plays with Zibanejad and Kreider,  Chytil and Panarin,  Trocheck and Cuylle/Othmann , Zibanejad and Panarin.. Trocheck and Kreider... what ever. 

 

He's gotta adapt and sacrifice some pride by moving to the right. He's being gifted a great opportunity. I'm not seeing the compete level or a sense of urgency that he needs to be at. He's gotta want it. 

 

This is baffling. How could he be this pedestrian? Still!?!?!

 

He says he worked on his skating over the summer. I see nothing. He's still huffing and puffing like he's going to collapse after normal shifts. He has no jump. Still a bit easy to knock off the puck. 

 

What the cut off point is, seriously needs to be thought about.

 

These younger kids look to be more along the lines of what this team needs moving forward. It's something I've been saying since last year. If Lafrenière isn't a legit star player,  he doesn't fit this roster now or even down the road.  These younger kids can fit now on lower lines and will grow into well rounded players that don't necessarily need special treatment or PP time to be happy OR effective. They add more. They do more things. 

 

IDK. It's not looking too good. Hopefully he just needs reps with the same linemates. 2 games. 2 different set of linemates. Maybe he just needs to learn his new linemates and the new system  (though he did say all systems are pretty much the same....).

 

If he's not changing people's perception of how much of a failure he is,  by Thanksgiving... He's gotta go. 

 

 

[Art20c]

Garbage is garbage no matter what. Time will come soon where management should have enough decency to sign the death certificate and burry him in minors. If he gets picked up on wavers so be it. Rare but not the only one 1st overall pick bust. 

[RichieNextel305]

I think the thing that concerns me is that, after 2 seasons plus the shortened 2021 season, we really don’t know where his strength is. For example, in Kakko, you know you have someone who has made strides (maybe not as much on the scoresheet) but with his cycle game, his board work, and with his puck possession. Like, anyone who watches this team consistently can see a difference with Kakko from Day 1 to now. And that’s not to say he is all the way there (or even close hopefully) but that can you see a difference and improvement from Day 1, Year 1 to now.

 

With Laffy, I haven’t seen it yet. I haven’t seen even one honest trait that has improved. I can’t even tell you one strength that comes to mind when thinking of him. His shot? His skill? We’ve seen glimpses, but nothing consistent or even close to consistent.

 

Its a touchy spot. He is young, very very young. Arguments can be made for both sides. He’s seen time in the league, but he’s been buried in depth charts and had no special teams time, yada yada yada. Fair points, both sides. I get it.

 

I just hope that this year we can at least get an idea of what his strengths are on the ice and we see some consistency with it.

Edited September 29, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[Pete]

6 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I think the thing that concerns me is that, after 2 seasons plus the shortened 2021 season, we really don’t know where his strength is. For example, in Kakko, you know you have someone who has made strides (maybe not as much on the scoresheet) but with his cycle game, his board work, and with his puck possession. Like, anyone who watches this team consistently can see a difference with Kakko from Day 1 to now. And that’s not to say he is all the way there (or even close hopefully) but that can you see a difference and improvement from Day 1, Year 1 to now.

 

With Laffy, I haven’t seen it yet. I haven’t seen even one honest trait that has improved. I can’t even tell you one strength that comes to mind when thinking of him. His shot? His skill? We’ve seen glimpses, but nothing consistent or even close to consistent.

 

Its a touchy spot. He is young, very very young. Arguments can be made for both sides. He’s seen time in the league, but he’s been buried in depth charts and had no special teams time, yada yada yada. Fair points, both sides. I get it.

 

I just hope that this year we can at least get an idea of what his strengths are on the ice and we see some consistency with it.

Pretty much this. Been saying this since he came in. Where's the dynamic skillset? This is the most boring player to watch on the roster. When he has the puck on his stick (rarely), you're not even excited. When Hughes has the puck there's always something happening.

 

What's Laugh's role? Setup man? Where's the vision and creativity in his passing? He's got a great shot, but he'd rather pass it into 9 skates. He's certainly not a dynamic open ice or 1:1 player. 

 

You see Othmann and Cuylle and they are noticable... Couple of grade A chances for each last night. Couple of big hits. They are forcing the issue.

 

What's Laugh doing?

 

Coincidentally, those fabricating the "country club" narrative are the biggest Laugh supporters/apologists, but is there a young player on the roster more fucking casual than Laugh?

 

His lack of effort and drive is sickening. 

 

He looks disgusted to be here. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Pete

[Br4d]

He's not fat.  He just acts fat.

 

One of the things that was noticeable last night was how often he was circling through the slot, never with the puck or a chance that somebody would pass it to him.  He was like the invisible passenger last night.  Maybe this is what Laviolette means by hockey IQ.  If people had been looking for him when he was there he'd have had a couple of nice opportunities,

 

I hope the Rangers were really working the phones this off-season trying to find him a home because there are a couple of real kids I'd rather see get the shot this season.

[Br4d]

There's nothing that coaching is going to do for Lafreniere at this point.  The guy who quietly dominated juniors just never showed up for the Rangers.  It's like he *really* doesn't want to be here and is just going to keep the skates moving at his pace until the Rangers don't want him either.

 

The biggest problem is urgency.  He plays without it.  Every now and then you see it come out, generally on the boards, but that's like a one shift a game thing.

 

I get that nobody has the motor running all the time.  Lafreniere seems to be idling a fair amount, with slow transitions back on defense and a noticeable delay when he's got the puck in the offensive end.  He waits a split second and then he makes a pass that gets broken up as it goes through the slot.  If he shot the puck right away or passed it right away maybe he'd get better results but it's like he is indecisive until the good play opportunity goes sour.

 

It's possible that there is something going on with his cognitive processing.  He may just be in enough doubt about his abilities at this point that the urgency gets over-ridden as he searches for the better solution.

 

I looked at a lot of Lafreniere film this off-season because it was a looooong off-season and the guy who made everybody notice him for 3 straight years in juniors and junior international play is a no-show in the NHL.

 

It sounds silly at this point but maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't tell an 18 year old francophone that he cannot speak French to his hometown press when their turn to ask questions at the presser comes up.  Smaller things have created ill will, inadvertent or otherwise, in kids.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I said it last night in the game thread, for a guy who is on his last leg as a Ranger he has zero urgency to his game.

If that isn't a big red flag I don't know what is.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

If people had been looking for him when he was there he'd have had a couple of nice opportunities,

This is the equivalent of a beer league player who's banging his stick in the slot when his team doesn't have the puck. 

 

There's no point in being open if there's a six sticks between you and the puck carrier, or your teammate isn't even looking at you because they're engaged elsewhere. That would actually be a lack of hockey IQ. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

There's nothing that coaching is going to do for Lafreniere at this point.  The guy who quietly dominated juniors just never showed up for the Rangers.  It's like he *really* doesn't want to be here and is just going to keep the skates moving at his pace until the Rangers don't want him either.

 

The biggest problem is urgency.  He plays without it.  Every now and then you see it come out, generally on the boards, but that's like a one shift a game thing.

 

I get that nobody has the motor running all the time.  Lafreniere seems to be idling a fair amount, with slow transitions back on defense and a noticeable delay when he's got the puck in the offensive end.  He waits a split second and then he makes a pass that gets broken up as it goes through the slot.  If he shot the puck right away or passed it right away maybe he'd get better results but it's like he is indecisive until the good play opportunity goes sour.

 

It's possible that there is something going on with his cognitive processing.  He may just be in enough doubt about his abilities at this point that the urgency gets over-ridden as he searches for the better solution.

 

I looked at a lot of Lafreniere film this off-season because it was a looooong off-season and the guy who made everybody notice him for 3 straight years in juniors and junior international play is a no-show in the NHL.

 

It sounds silly at this point but maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't tell an 18 year old francophone that he cannot speak French to his hometown press when their turn to ask questions at the presser comes up.  Smaller things have created ill will, inadvertent or otherwise, in kids.

Yes. 

[Sharpshooter]

Maybe it's a combination of the two, but he either is just not comfortable here, or just isn't that good. The skill is definitely there, you can see it. But as you said, he has no urgency and really no desire to get better. Maybe he's just playing himself out of here. If that is the case, that's more on him than the Rangers. Say what you want about their struggles to develop offensive forwards, and game-changing types, but to have your first overall pick just come here and kind of give up is not on them. Would it have helped if the sent him to the AHL? Maybe, but I don't really know. Again, in some ways it seems he's also just not very good, or at least not good enough to be that star type player.

 

After watching Bedard already looking slick for the Blackhawks, it's maddening how basically two top two picks have been flubbed or were just never that great to begin with. Why can't we have nice things?

[Sharpshooter]

Can we just merge this with the other Laugh thread? lol The only thing he does well, sort of, is passing. When he's not too busy getting the puck off his stick as quickly as possible like it's a grenade, he is capable of some good dishes now and then. I'm trying to be generous here.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I wouldn't say he is a good passer only because too often he attempts passes that have no chance of ever getting through.   In my opinion his best attribute is his shot, but he takes too long to shoot or passes when he should shoot. 

[Valriera]

It’s easy to bash but he’s good with the puck on and off his stick in the o zone, he’s just not flashy and he’s not fast and his attitude sucks. Last night was bad, but normally this is someone you’d rather have the puck in the o-zone than most. 
 

The problem is actually nothing in the thread except production. He’s got a gift on a ljne with a 50g and a 40g player. You’re out of excuses, let’s see the numbers. I’m a big patience guy, but if you dint put up this year it’s on you and nothing else and it almost doesn’t matter why 

[Sharpshooter]

Hey, I was trying to find something. lol He's also shown to have some good snarl in his game, but just like everything else, doesn't show it often enough.

[Valriera]

Yeah it’s time. Top line RW. It’s time and it doesn’t matter how it gets done 

[Drew a Penalty]

I have zero expectations beyond that Laf will ultimately fuck up a play. They effectively let him run the top PP unit last night and he did fuck all with it. He's finally getting the time, space, and opportunity that some clamored for and he has no clue what to do with it. I don't see any creativity from him at all, everything is forced or too slow. Karl Henriksson looked more dynamic and engaged than Laf. Everyone is outworking him and I'm not sure he notices.

[Sharpshooter]

3 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

I have zero expectations beyond that Laf will ultimately fuck up a play. They effectively let him run the top PP unit last night and he did fuck all with it. He's finally getting the time, space, and opportunity that some clamored for and he has no clue what to do with it. I don't see any creativity from him at all, everything is forced or too slow. Karl Henriksson looked more dynamic and engaged than Laf. Everyone is outworking him and I'm not sure he notices.

Or really, even cares. 

[Phil]

I said it half jokingly in a group chat last night. Now I'm saying it here, not joking at all: trade him to Ottawa in a deal for Shane Pinto.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

I said it half jokingly in a group chat last night. Now I'm saying it here, not joking at all: trade him to Ottawa in a deal for Shane Pinto.

Do you know what you would have to give up along with him to get Pinto? He's also a center, which doesn't help us. 

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Do you know what you would have to give up along with him to get Pinto? He's also a center, which doesn't help us. 

 

No idea, but I'm hoping the idea of Lafreniere being a "hometown boy" has some extra value.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

No idea, but I'm hoping the idea of Lafreniere being a "hometown boy" has some extra value.

I think you'd have to give up a lot and take Mathieu Joseph back (as we've all heard from the various podcasts).

[Phil]

You're probably right, and the team can't afford it, so it won't happen without a third team involved. You'd need the third team to take Joseph, I think. But that means paying even more.

[Jdog99]

Not a fan of moving him to the RW...again...(nor the first time)

 

But i can't really argue with anyone who says he should have proven and earned his keep by now...

 

Just think with 1OA like that...the ideal situation is you get put on the top line (in your natural position) on a team with low expectations, and have alot of freedom to play your game.

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Jdog99 said:

Not a fan of moving him to the RW...again...(nor the first time)

 

But i can't really argue with anyone who says he should have proven and earned his keep by now...

 

Just think with 1OA like that...the ideal situation is you get put on the top line (in your natural position) on a team with low expectations, and have alot of freedom to play your game.

I get what you're saying, but nobody has stopped him from playing his game. Normally first overall players come in and are dynamic offensively, and what they need to be taught is the defensive side of the game. There is nothing dynamic about him. He has not been over aggressive and made mistakes and been benched for it. If anything he's been benched for not trying