Lafrenière Re-Re-Reset: 2023–24 Edition

[Sharpshooter]

Great points. Making him unavailable to the media isn't a great look at all, but something they might have to do. I don't know if they're that observant, though. lol It is just another example in support of the 'he can't play in New York' crowd.

[BrooksBurner]

46 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Lafreniere presses under very polite questions at this point. He fiddles with his nose, and his shirt and his necklace.  His face gets redder under extended questioning and if one person is persistent you can see the clammy skin thing starting.

 

He has people he likes talking too and you can see a little smile here and there when he's looking in their direction.  No idea who those people are because all we hear is voices.

 

One of the problems and the one that seems to trigger him the most is when somebody asks a question with followups that go on forever with lots of qualifying phrases.  You can see him chafe waiting to answer when the question turns into a series of paragraphs instead of a sentence.

 

One example was the question "Did you change anything you did this summer in terms of skating and conditioning?" which was actually probably three times as long as that with qualifiers thrown in including another question before he answered to the effect of "did you learn anything from the process?".  To which Lafreniere replied that he'd brought Dawn Braid in to work with him on skating and his edges, trying to get stronger and focus on his skating and lower body strength. 

 

The followup was "Was that coordinated with the Rangers? Was that something they set up?" At which point Lafreniere began to cover, mentioning his strength coach in Montreal helping to set it up and as the reporter pressed saying the Rangers had something to do with it as well.  You could see the discomfort at the followup question as Lafreniere's mouth fell open, which is kind of a universal signal for "What?  What's this?"

 

Again it's a small thing but the small things add up.  If I was the Rangers I might decide to make Lafreniere less available to the media until they've got a better idea of where they're going with him.

 

Link to interview:

 

 

Pretty normal back and forth in a normal conversation IMO. The open mouth, for example, was a complete nothing burger. He was about to respond and you can even hear he made a sound before the interviewer spoke again to expand the question. It was also the same interviewer who rambled on the first question, so there was a natural delay on if that was the entirety of a rather odd question for a pregame interview, or if there was more. Turned out there was more LOL. Anyway, his answer was "Yeah, kinda, with the Rangers and my strength coach back home, so, a little bit of both, yeah". I don't see what you see here my man. There's plenty on the ice to look at for more than to over-dissect something like this.

[Pete]

Lafreniere has to be feeling the pressure unless he's a complete idiot, which also may be true.

 

If only they let him answer those questions in French, it all might have been different....

[Br4d]

The francophone thing has been under-reported if anything.

 

Right after the Rangers drafted Lafreniere his parents got in touch with the organization.  Their issue?  They wanted his name spelled properly with the accent grave after the middle e.  It was part of his identity as a French Canadian and they didn't want it to get swallowed by the NYR/NHL marketing process.

 

It was *really* tone deaf of the Rangers to not allow Lafreniere to take or answer questions in French.

 

Again, this is a small thing but when you're dealing with one of the most valuable properties on the planet (and Lafreniere was that in 2020) it doesn't make sense to chip around the edges on things as provincial as ethnic identity, particularly when you're dealing with an immature property that has great growth potential but will grow well or poorly based on lots of small things and the cumulative impact of them.

 

Odds are this doesn't work out at this point and some of that will be on Lafreniere and some will be on the Rangers but the Rangers are going to be the side that feels the greater weight of the combined disappointment.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Br4d

[Pete]

Counter, there's nothing to report because it's not a big deal for anyone invovled.

 

In a world where nothing is under reported, that's not the hill to die on.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Pete

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, Br4d said:

Lafreniere presses under very polite questions at this point. He fiddles with his nose, and his shirt and his necklace.  His face gets redder under extended questioning and if one person is persistent you can see the clammy skin thing starting.

 

He has people he likes talking too and you can see a little smile here and there when he's looking in their direction.  No idea who those people are because all we hear is voices.

 

One of the problems and the one that seems to trigger him the most is when somebody asks a question with followups that go on forever with lots of qualifying phrases.  You can see him chafe waiting to answer when the question turns into a series of paragraphs instead of a sentence.

 

One example was the question "Did you change anything you did this summer in terms of skating and conditioning?" which was actually probably three times as long as that with qualifiers thrown in including another question before he answered to the effect of "did you learn anything from the process?".  To which Lafreniere replied that he'd brought Dawn Braid in to work with him on skating and his edges, trying to get stronger and focus on his skating and lower body strength. 

 

The followup was "Was that coordinated with the Rangers? Was that something they set up?" At which point Lafreniere began to cover, mentioning his strength coach in Montreal helping to set it up and as the reporter pressed saying the Rangers had something to do with it as well.  You could see the discomfort at the followup question as Lafreniere's mouth fell open, which is kind of a universal signal for "What?  What's this?"

 

Again it's a small thing but the small things add up.  If I was the Rangers I might decide to make Lafreniere less available to the media until they've got a better idea of where they're going with him.

Yet Kappo Kakko has no problem with answering long winded questions with relatively smart answers and no frustration.  

 

As I mentioned that look on Lafrenieres face,  (to me) is more of a "why are you grilling me, I'm awesome, I scored at even strength..."  look. Perplexed that someone had the audacity to think he needs to prove anything. 

 

Get Vancouver on the phone. 

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

The francophone thing has been under-reported if anything.

 

Right after the Rangers drafted Lafreniere his parents got in touch with the organization.  Their issue?  They wanted his name spelled properly with the accent grave after the middle e.  It was part of his identity as a French Canadian and they didn't want it to get swallowed by the NYR/NHL marketing process.

 

It was *really* tone deaf of the Rangers to not allow Lafreniere to take or answer questions in French.

 

Again, this is a small thing but when you're dealing with one of the most valuable properties on the planet (and Lafreniere was that in 2020) it doesn't make sense to chip around the edges on things as provincial as ethnic identity, particularly when you're dealing with an immature property that has great growth potential but will grow well or poorly based on lots of small things and the cumulative impact of them.

 

Odds are this doesn't work out at this point and some of that will be on Lafreniere and some will be on the Rangers but the Rangers are going to be the side that feels the greater weight of the combined disappointment.

I heard De'Angelo had similar issues and that is why he's a loud mouth jerk. Gotta have the hyphen or the accent grave ( is that really what it's called?) or else it's all down hill from there. Oh, the disrespect. 

 

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I heard De'Angelo had similar issues and that is why he's a loud mouth jerk. Gotta have the hyphen or the accent grave ( is that really what it's called?) or else it's all down hill from there. Oh, the disrespect. 

 

[The Dude]

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

Just because you don't understand the struggle of ethnic identity,  doesn't make it not a thing..

 

This poor kid is suffering because the Rangers disallowed him this that and the other thing  annnd PP minutes! The accent grave!

[siddious]

4 hours ago, Br4d said:

The francophone thing has been under-reported if anything.

 

Right after the Rangers drafted Lafreniere his parents got in touch with the organization.  Their issue?  They wanted his name spelled properly with the accent grave after the middle e.  It was part of his identity as a French Canadian and they didn't want it to get swallowed by the NYR/NHL marketing process.

 

It was *really* tone deaf of the Rangers to not allow Lafreniere to take or answer questions in French.

 

Again, this is a small thing but when you're dealing with one of the most valuable properties on the planet (and Lafreniere was that in 2020) it doesn't make sense to chip around the edges on things as provincial as ethnic identity, particularly when you're dealing with an immature property that has great growth potential but will grow well or poorly based on lots of small things and the cumulative impact of them.

 

Odds are this doesn't work out at this point and some of that will be on Lafreniere and some will be on the Rangers but the Rangers are going to be the side that feels the greater weight of the combined disappointment.

What are your sources on this? This is the only place I’ve seen this mentioned. 

[Br4d]

https://theathletic.com/2394950/2021/03/19/alexis-lafreniere-tim-stutzle-accents-umlauts/

[siddious]

5 minutes ago, Br4d said:

https://theathletic.com/2394950/2021/03/19/alexis-lafreniere-tim-stutzle-accents-umlauts/

Quote

The first step in addressing Lafrenière’s parents’ concern was to speak with the Rangers, who took roughly “two seconds” to agree to adding the accent to the name, Castonguay said. 

im not seeing the issue. Is he bad because he had to ask the rangers (it sounds like they were the first team to actually spell his name correctly) to alter the spelling of his name?

 

no wonder fedor tyutin never thrived here 

[Br4d]

44 minutes ago, siddious said:

im not seeing the issue. Is he bad because he had to ask the rangers (it sounds like they were the first team to actually spell his name correctly) to alter the spelling of his name?

 

no wonder fedor tyutin never thrived here 

 

The issue is that Lafreniere chose to make a request about keeping the accent and later the Rangers chose to ask him not to speak in French or take questions in French from the pool.

 

I guess you could say that the Rangers just didn't realize what they were doing but it seems to be a fairly dense move on their part.

[siddious]

14 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

The issue is that Lafreniere chose to make a request about keeping the accent and later the Rangers chose to ask him not to speak in French or take questions in French from the pool.

 

I guess you could say that the Rangers just didn't realize what they were doing but it seems to be a fairly dense move on their part.

Even if all of this was true, which I’m having a hard time accepting, it doesn’t even remotely

benefit him to not work his ass off and show he’s an nhl quality player. It’s much easier to ask to be traded and to be traded when teams actually want you.
 

I’m under no illusion that the rangers arent terrible with prospects BUT I think this may be as much if not entirely lafs fault. He’s just not good and he’s done nothing to alter that image of himself whatsoever. An argument can be made that on occasions he’s done the opposite. 

he also speaks perfect English. It’s not like the rangers barred him from speaking all together. If they told him not to speak French then yes that’s stupid. But why would you even speak French in NYC? This isn’t a case of a Russian coming over with no clue how to speak English. 
 

it’s just a strange mountain to die on. And I’m not one of these people that goes around calling the younger generation “soft” but that’s an incredibly soft reason to under perform If it ended up being true. 

[Pete]

Yes this is just a case of Laugh apologists trying to point at something as an excuse or "mishandling".

 

Meanwhile there's no evidence that this happened, according to all accounts in 2020 yet not coming to light until 2022? And all you can find on it is blogger and Reddit articles all referencing the same singular source, which may or may not be an 100% accurate representation of what happened. 

 

Meanwhile, to @siddiouspoint, he speaks English so who cares?

 

It gets no attention because it's not a thing. 

 

[RJWantsTheCup]

I hope Donut Hole isn’t trying to say his poor play in his career is due to his name being spelled wrong and not being able to give interviews in French.  Anyone that fragile will never make it in any professional league.  Once the puck drops who the fuck cares about name spelling or interviews.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

Even if all of this was true, which I’m having a hard time accepting, it doesn’t even remotely

benefit him to not work his ass off and show he’s an nhl quality player. It’s much easier to ask to be traded and to be traded when teams actually want you.
 

I’m under no illusion that the rangers arent terrible with prospects BUT I think this may be as much if not entirely lafs fault. He’s just not good and he’s done nothing to alter that image of himself whatsoever. An argument can be made that on occasions he’s done the opposite. 

he also speaks perfect English. It’s not like the rangers barred him from speaking all together. If they told him not to speak French then yes that’s stupid. But why would you even speak French in NYC? This isn’t a case of a Russian coming over with no clue how to speak English. 
 

it’s just a strange mountain to die on. And I’m not one of these people that goes around calling the younger generation “soft” but that’s an incredibly soft reason to under perform If it ended up being true. 

Gotta pull blindfold tighter and keep digging, we've reached an all time low in trying to make excuses for him and his lack of growth. Next up a comparison on how much easier it is to pronounce Zibanejad compared to Laugh.  Talk about coddling, holy cow. What was wrong with his english when he got here, as was already mentioned - nothing. 

 

Maybe upon reflection it's the accent on the jersey that's too heavy for him to carry around on his shoulders. That will be his legacy here along with the ol'chinstrap moustache.

[Keirik]

[siddious]

Once the fans start booing him at the garden it’s over 

[Pete]

I can get not being as good as advertised. What I can't abide is the lack of work ethic. He can't help scouts pumping his tires and he can't help being bigger than everybody and stronger than everybody as a 16-year-old. But what is in his control is working on his craft and it's so clear he's not doing that nearly enough. 

 

Again, there is a very clear difference between where KK is now and when he came into the league, and there is not a very clear difference with Lafreniere. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Pete

[Sharpshooter]

Yeah, Kakko actually wants to get better and has gotten better. We've also seen it visibly bother him when he's not doing well, and he knows he should be. I don't know if Laf just thinks his shit doesn't stink and he doesn't have to work hard to succeed at this level or what. If that is the case, I can't see Laviolette putting up with that bullshit that long.

[Phil]

15 hours ago, The Dude said:

Yet Kappo Kakko has no problem with answering long winded questions with relatively smart answers and no frustration.  

 

As I mentioned that look on Lafrenieres face,  (to me) is more of a "why are you grilling me, I'm awesome, I scored at even strength..."  look. Perplexed that someone had the audacity to think he needs to prove anything. 

 

Get Vancouver on the phone. 

 

I don't sense any of this with him. My intimations are that he's just happy to be here. I think everything about his attitude, his persona, his personality, that we can see, screams fun-loving, easy going, etc. But to a fault. It's basically bordering on slackerism, because he's been dogged by a "lack of work ethic" since Junior.

[Phil]

59 minutes ago, Pete said:

I can get not being as good as advertised. What I can't abide is the lack of work ethic. He can't help scouts pumping his tires and he can't help being bigger than everybody and stronger than everybody as a 16-year-old. But what is in his control is working on his craft and it's so clear he's not doing that nearly enough. 

 

Again, there is a very clear difference between where KK is now and when he came into the league, and there is not a very clear difference with Lafreniere. 

 

Facts as fuck. This is what kills me most about it, too. It's one thing to not be able to live up to your draft billing, but it's so much worse when you seemingly do nothing about it, and don't even appear to make an effort to change it.

[Sharpshooter]

If this coaching staff can't get through to him, I don't know who will. If that occurs, then it's time to cut bait. If he continues to look like this, he might be gone by Christmas or something. Who knows.

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I don't sense any of this with him. My intimations are that he's just happy to be here. I think everything about his attitude, his persona, his personality, that we can see, screams fun-loving, easy going, etc. But to a fault. It's basically bordering on slackerism, because he's been dogged by a "lack of work ethic" since Junior.

I used to think he was just having a blast. But I feel like it morphed into some entitlement.

 

The Rangers are bending over backwards to try anything to get him going.  The fact that he took so long to sign and the results  he's shown on the ice along with his body language these days, has me thinking he is in shock with how contract talks had gone.  Also, the bewildered look on his face when the media asks him how he can improve.

 

I honestly think he's in some weird denial about how he hasn't played up to expectations. The zero urgency says it all for me. The confused look,  then the red face, backs my thought in interviews. 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by The Dude