Lafrenière Re-Re-Reset: 2023–24 Edition

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Karan said:

I would be quite surprised if the Rangers front office take such a short sighted approach with Lafrenière having literally just signed him to an extension 6 weeks ago. 

 

It's not short-sighted at all if they envision this as a winnable year and they think they can get a player who can help them now, or better than Laugh can.

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

 

Just stings, man!  How cool would it be to get a player like a Joe Sakic, Mario Lemieux or a Sid the Kid just once in our lives without having to "buy" them as free agents?

i dont think any ranger fan ever knows/knew that feeling.  

But we had Lundqvist and Leetch.  

[Br4d]

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It's not short-sighted at all if they envision this as a winnable year and they think they can get a player who can help them now, or better than Laugh can.

 

It's got to be a young player who can help them now.  It's probably has to be a RW.  Given who the coach is it probably needs to be a hard-nosed player who is willing to grind.

 

It's hard to see the Rangers getting that kind of asset for Lafreniere at this point.  The receiving team would have to really believe they can turn Laffy around fairly quickly to make the deal.

 

If the Rangers deal Laf for a 30 year old they're going double or nothing on the year and they'll be rebuilding as early as next season if they don't somehow win it all this year.

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

We as Rangers fans fall in love with our players too easily.   Being happy with someone on the 3rd line making 40 points who really doesn't contribute to the team's success is part of the reason we win the cup so infrequently.  In any sport the goal is to keep improving the team and to win championships not be complacent.

I don't get this. The league is full of 45 point third liners.

 

Vegas 3rd line: Karlsson, Amadio, Smith: 53, 27, 56= 45 pt average

Bruins 3rd line: Hall, Coyle, DeBrusk: 36, 45, 50= 43 point average

 

That's what you're getting from a 3rd line that doesn't get PP time. The point is, he's getting that production by basically falling ass backwards into it. He should be doing more.

 

The question then becomes, can you get 30-40 points from another player on an ELC and get back cap room.

 

[RJWantsTheCup]

The 40 points from a 3rd liner isn't the issue it's the not contributing to team success that's the problem.  Getting 40 points but not doing anything else well is what I was really talking about.  Not a penalty killer, not a hitter, not a good forechecker, not a good passer, etc.

[Morphinity 2.0]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

Plenty of Laugh talk on latest 32 Thoughts. You can listen directly here:

 

 

Transcribed some key quotes here:

 

 

I'm going to read too much into this, but the level of concern in their voices says a lot. Seems like a bad situation all around.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

The 40 points from a 3rd liner isn't the issue it's the not contributing to team success that's the problem.  Getting 40 points but not doing anything else well is what I was really talking about.  Not a penalty killer, not a hitter, not a good forechecker, not a good passer, etc.

The 40 points alone contributes to the team's success. 

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Morphinity 2.0 said:

I'm going to read too much into this, but the level of concern in their voices says a lot. Seems like a bad situation all around.

 

Yup. Reads like concern. Sounds like dread.

[Karan]

46 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It's not short-sighted at all if they envision this as a winnable year and they think they can get a player who can help them now, or better than Laugh can.

 

I imagine Rangers management/coaching staff are well aware that this team has much bigger issues to having a winnable year than an underperforming winger.

[fletch]

37 minutes ago, CCCP said:

i hope that a 21 year old former 1AO is on a longer leash than "if by November you still cant figure it out, you are out of here".  

 

If Laf stays a productive 3rd liner who puts up around 45 points all of his remaining career, it'll be a good enough for me.  

 

It's easier for me to see potential for a deeper playoff run by development from Laf, Kakko, and Chytil (= more goals and assists), then to get more from veterans Zib, Kreider, Panarin, Wheeler, Trocheck.  We've seen the ceiling on the vets production.  

 

Is it really too much to hope that at least 2 out of 3 of Laf, Kakko, and Chytil can go from a 40-point per year player to a 60+ point-per year player?  They don't have to be Jack Hughes, but they should become better options for ice time than stop-gaps like 37 year old Wheeler.  Wheeler should be the last stop gap Drury feels obligated to add while waiting for the young players to develop.  Cuylle and Othmann before any more stop-gap additions, please!

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

The 40 points alone contributes to the team's success. 

It might, but 40 points with other factors contributes to better success.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

The 40 points alone contributes to the team's success. 

But it doesn't.  What did it contribute last season? It's not about the scoresheet.  It's about roles. He's not a 3rd liner. He doesn't help win games. He adds nothing.

 

He's not taking advantage of getting top line minutes and PP time in camp. So, it's back to the 3rd line or worse, until he proves otherwise.  

[Br4d]

2 hours ago, Morphinity 2.0 said:

I'm going to read too much into this, but the level of concern in their voices says a lot. Seems like a bad situation all around.

 

There should be concern at this point.  What the Rangers have been doing with him since 2020 hasn't been working.  He progresses a bit in a linear fashion and looks like he might actually be a good player along about 2026 - which is well into the next window.

 

What the reasons are for his failure to progress at a faster pace are mysterious to all.  We have the donut shouters but they really don't know what's going on with him.  We have the lack of opportunities but those are not surprising given Lafreniere's inability to capitalize on the rare opportunities he has been given.  We have the people who think he just doesn't have the chops, ignoring the fact that it is hard to put up the numbers he did in Junior without those chops.

 

The Lafreniere conundrum is very "how many angels on the head of a pinny-like" and those kinds of problems always suck to sort out.

 

It should be obvious by now that if Lafreniere had more oomph to give he'd be giving it.  So something else is going on.

[Pete]

50 minutes ago, The Dude said:

But it doesn't.  What did it contribute last season? It's not about the scoresheet.  It's about roles. He's not a 3rd liner. He doesn't help win games. He adds nothing.

 

He's not taking advantage of getting top line minutes and PP time in camp. So, it's back to the 3rd line or worse, until he proves otherwise.  

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all. He's contributing what any other third liner would be. The problem is he's a 1OA and should be doing more. 

 

To say that production doesn't help the team at all is just false. 

 

He's a disappointment but let's be fair and logical. 

[Shane Falco]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

Plenty of Laugh talk on latest 32 Thoughts. You can listen directly here:

 

 

Transcribed some key quotes here:

 

 

“Don’t forget to hit that like button and subscribe to @philneedsfriends “

[The Dude]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all. He's contributing what any other third liner would be. The problem is he's a 1OA and should be doing more. 

 

To say that production doesn't help the team at all is just false. 

 

He's a disappointment but let's be fair and logical. 

Dude. You went from saying the guy doesn't fit as a 3rd liner to pretty much saying he's a perfect 3rd liner because of a stat line... in a matter of 24 hours. 

 

He's doesn't fit. He's not a 3rd liner. His points,  his even strength numbers are hollow. The Rangers do not depend on him for production. He's not a top 6 player. He's wedged in as a spare part that doesn't fit anywhere on a 3rd line of misfit toys. 

 

You shared a similar opinion just yesterday. Now all of a sudden you're team Lafrenière and are jumping on the point totals wagon? 

 

Alright.  Good for you.

 

I'm not there yet. I am giving this kid no benefit of the doubt. I'm giving him very little credit for his point totals. I think his compete level has fallen off big time. I see no redeeming quality lately. That's dating back to the trade deadline and the playoffs. 

 

He's a disappointment.  Let's be logical. It's not going to work here for him.

 

This coach can't make an exception to his rule and push a no effort, disappointment up the roster. Not to start the season.  Period. There's no variable to this. No. Just no. And as you've already stated. He doesn't fit the role of a 3rd liner.  Not a Laviolette 3rd liner. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by The Dude

[Br4d]

There is one big difference between this year and the last two.

 

This is the first year Lafreniere has played where he *might* get displaced by a younger prospect who performs well.

 

Not saying that is the situation right now but if we get 6 weeks into the season and he's not progressing there's every reason to believe that an Othmann might get called up and start taking his minutes.  Same with Cuylle although Cuylle might already be here and doing that.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

 Relax, let's not get worked up here. We're just having a conversation. Let's go point by point.

Quote

Dude. You went from saying the guy doesn't fit as a 3rd liner to he's a perfect 3rd liner in a matter of 24 hours.

Let's be clear. What I said is, his number are inline with 3rd line production. I also said that Lavvy, specifically, has a specific role for his third line and Lafreniere doesn't fit that mold.

Quote

 He's doesn't fit. He's not a 3rd liner. His points,  his even strength numbers are hollow. The Rangers do not depend on him for production. He's not a top 6 player. He's wedged in as a spare part that doesn't fit anywhere on a 3rd line of misfit toys. 

He doesn't fit on a Lavvy third line. The rest...I don't know, it's just an unfocused verbal assault. The Rangers don't depend on him for production...What's that mean? It's an insult for insult's sake.ES numbers are hollow? What's that mean? He isn't a top 6 player...yea but we don't know if he can be. Now is the time to find out. The 3rd line isn't misfit toys anymore, so now's the time to find his role.

Quote

 

You shared a similar opinion just yesterday. Now all of a sudden you're team Lafrenière and are jumping on the point totals wagon? 

Alright.  Good for you.

Again, calm down...You're getting all agitated. We're just talking. I'm not on anyone's bandwagon, I'm simply saying that a 40-45 point third liner is normal. His issue is that he should be doing more. But if he never does more, you have to ask if Cuylle can do that at a much cheaper tag.

Quote

I'm not there yet. I am giving this kid no benefit of the doubt. I'm giving him very little credit for his point totals. I think his compete level has fallen off big time. I see no redeeming quality lately. That's dating back to the trade deadline and the playoffs. 

I can see this POV.

Quote

He's a disappointment.  Let's be logical. It's not going to work here for him.

This coach can't make an exception to his rule and push a no effort, disappointment up the roster. Not to start the season.  Period. There's no variable to this. No. Just no. 

This is the last try, let him fail spectacularly.

 

We used to have constant severe friction, let's not go back there. I'm trying to be fair an balanced. Criticism is fair, but unfair criticism needs to be limited.

 

I'm coming from a place of "This has to work, so they have to give it the best shot to make it work". I don't think folks really understand the ramifications of jettisoning a 1OA and how far that sets a franchise back.

 

We've seen eye to eye on this for awhile, bear with me while we explore "what if?"...They just kept him in the top 6? Or he's OK as a 3rd liner? I just don't want him blocking Cuylle or Othmann. I'm not just trying to trade him for failing as a 1OA. He needs to be hurting  the team. Right now, he's just not helping as much as he should be.

[RangersIn7]

14 hours ago, Pete said:

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all. He's contributing what any other third liner would be. The problem is he's a 1OA and should be doing more. 

 

To say that production doesn't help the team at all is just false. 

 

He's a disappointment but let's be fair and logical. 

His production is commensurate with his usage. That’s a 3rd liner. That’s no issue.

 

But he’s a 1OVA. And he hasn’t at any point forced his way out of that role and usage into a bigger role. That is an issue.

 

And now the bigger issue is time.

Hes played 200 games at this point, and we are heading into season 4. He needs to take a step forward and produce more this season.

 

[RangersIn7]

Right now, he isn’t blocking anyone.

Nor is he a detriment to the team.

 

He doesn’t suck at hockey.

Hes not some kid who doesn’t belong in the NHL.

And at this point, based on what’s been reported by Vince and some others, he worked hard this summer and he doesn’t have an issue with his conditioning. Performed well on all those tests they run in regards to that. 

 

These are false narratives. 
Drop that.

 

 

But this season, they need more consistency and production from him. Kakko and Chytil too.

 

I’ll also say that none of them need to become superstars this year.

They just need to give more.

Especially if you’re bumping them up the lineup and playing them in bigger roles and giving them more ice time.

 

His effort and compete need to be higher. 

[siddious]

21 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

 

 

His effort and compete need to be higher. 

Delete the rest of that post. This is the point here^

[RangersIn7]

36 minutes ago, siddious said:

Delete the rest of that post. This is the point here^

That is the operative point.

 

Hopefully something gets him going.

 

He wasn’t the consensus 1OVA in his draft class for 2 years prior to his draft class for no reason.

 

They need to find the right button to push and the right way to push it. 

[torontonyr]

Hold up, we drafted a player first overall? Is he gonna play? I'm actually excited.

[SaveByRichter35]

So I am late to the party this preseason.  I just finished reading this thread over the past 2 nights.  I haven't gotten into the training camp thread yet so help catch me up.  If I am following this thread correctly, they finally made Laugh move over to play the right wing and he failed miserably?  Did he get moved back to the left, and is still failing?  What exactly made this camp/preseason such a disaster for him other than Laugh being Laugh?

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

So I am late to the party this preseason.  I just finished reading this thread over the past 2 nights.  I haven't gotten into the training camp thread yet so help catch me up.  If I am following this thread correctly, they finally made Laugh move over to play the right wing and he failed miserably?  Did he get moved back to the left, and is still failing?  What exactly made this camp/preseason such a disaster for him other than Laugh being Laugh?

Read the training camp thread, all will be revealed. There will be no surprises either.