Lafrenière Re-Re-Reset: 2023–24 Edition

[Phil]

13 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Give him a month if there isn't some signs of life move him, Jones & Goodrow to Montreal for their #1 next year.

Use the cap space to sign Kane.  Call up Cuylle to play the 3rd line.  

 

In this scenario, I'd rather use it to call up Othmann and Cuylle. Stash the cap space for a deadline get. I don't care about Kane.

[RJWantsTheCup]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

In this scenario, I'd rather use it to call up Othmann and Cuylle. Stash the cap space for a deadline get. I don't care about Kane.

That works too.  

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Laviolette is not like GG. His third line will have a role. It's not a collection of players who didn't make the top 6.

 

If Laf fits into the role, he'll surely stay. More than that, however, is the question of whether Cuylle or Othmann gives you that much less than Lafreniere does on an ELC. I can see a world where Cuylle lights it up in the AHL and Lafreniere is moved mid-season for futures.

I’m actually fine with that

 

If you ask me now, Laf won’t make it here.

 

But I think he hits age 25 plus and that’s when he blooms

 

They should keep him cheap till then

 

But they wont

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

Teams don't give up average NHL players until their cap hit outweighs their production.

 

Unless somebody makes the Rangers a real offer for Lafreniere he is very unlikely to get moved.  At this point that would be at least a 1st round pick and probably a cheap young body alongside that.

He isn’t going to bloom here.

 

Not because of location, but because of age.

 

He will be a different player in a few years.

 

Just where will he be when that happens.

[RangersIn7]

Keep him

You can do it cheaply.

 

He won’t figure it out at 21,22,23.

 

But he hits 24-25 and beyond, and I’d bet he’s very good.

 

And in the meantime, if some secondary areas improve, he’s a cost effective player with upside 

[RangersIn7]

59 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Give him a month if there isn't some signs of life move him, Jones & Goodrow to Montreal for their #1 next year.

Use the cap space to sign Kane.  Call up Cuylle to play the 3rd line.  

A month is too short bro.

 

You give him until Christmas. Then you start looking.

[RJWantsTheCup]

6 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

A month is too short bro.

 

You give him until Christmas. Then you start looking.

By Christmas Kane will have signed somewhere else.  They've given him 3 years already plus the training camp with zero improvement.   The idea is to win now not wait until he figures it out at 25.

[Phil]

54 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Keep him

You can do it cheaply.

 

He won’t figure it out at 21,22,23.

 

But he hits 24-25 and beyond, and I’d bet he’s very good.

 

And in the meantime, if some secondary areas improve, he’s a cost effective player with upside 

 

Sure, maybe. Like Zibanejad. Or never, like Falloon and Drouin.

 

The point being, while there's economic value to him now, his price is only going to go up, even if he just incrementally improves, and it seems silly to pin all hopes on someone showing next to no progress if a trade market exists for him.

 

If Ottawa was willing to deal Shane Pinto in a deal for him, I'd have an awful time saying no, for example.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Donut Hole with his best pre-season game last night.

What's that, he didn't play?

[Sharpshooter]

Donut hole? More like black hole.

[lefty9]

I I saw this thread before we drafted Laffy  ,i would think you all doing crack

[Phil]

Quote

I believe in running a team as a meritocracy. I believe in players earning their ice time and earning a power-play assignment. Of course, veterans build credit that should be honored, but only to an extent. No one should be given minutes because of the size of a paycheck or selection order in a draft.

 

Again. Lafreniere has not earned a top-six spot. He has seemed paralyzed. My best information is that the Rangers were pleased with his results on his testing on and off the ice. There is no indication that he was lazy over the summer. He had a decent first couple of days on the ice but it’s all been downhill since the first exhibition game in Boston on Sept. 24.

 

And do you know what I would do in response? I would break my rule. Before Thursday’s preseason finale at the Garden against the B’s, I would tell Lafreniere that he’s starting the season on right wing with Zibanejad and Chris Kreider. I would tell Lafreniere to relax. I would tell him there is no reason for him to look over his shoulder.

 

Quote

The Rangers need Lafreniere. They need him to produce in a top-six role. They most certainly do not need Lafreniere to become a migraine headache. They cannot have Lafreniere become the pink elephant in the room. dominating the discourse inside and outside the organization.

 

They need Lafreniere to breathe.

 

Just breathe.

 

https://nypost.com/2023/10/05/what-rangers-should-do-with-alexis-lafreniere-after-unfathomable-camp/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nypost_sitebuttons

[jsm7302]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/10/05/what-rangers-should-do-with-alexis-lafreniere-after-unfathomable-camp/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nypost_sitebuttons

He already is the elephant in the room. The article double speaks and makes no sense. As much as they "need" him, it sends a terrible message to just allow him to be pedestrian and reward that type of play with top line minutes. Continue to force that square peg into the round hole .....good luck.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

He already is the elephant in the room. The article double speaks and makes no sense. As much as they "need" him, it sends a terrible message to just allow him to be pedestrian and reward that type of play with top line minutes. Continue to force that square peg into the round hole .....good luck.

 

I mean, yes, probably, but also, what choice do they have? At this point, 200+ games into this experiment, you really need to know what you have here. It's not like he's taking a job from anyone. They are thinner than human hair on RW right now.

 

This is probably the best course of action for a limited run — a month or two, basically — and you reassess from there.

[Bieser]

43 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

He already is the elephant in the room. 

 

Honestly I think he doesn't know that.  Do you think he playing for his Rangers life?  Do you think this preseason is the difference between 3rd line or top minutes? 

I'd wager he doesn't.  Or he's too proud to admit it.  

 

 

 

[Pete]

54 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

He already is the elephant in the room. The article double speaks and makes no sense. As much as they "need" him, it sends a terrible message to just allow him to be pedestrian and reward that type of play with top line minutes. Continue to force that square peg into the round hole .....good luck.

 

47 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, yes, probably, but also, what choice do they have? At this point, 200+ games into this experiment, you really need to know what you have here. It's not like he's taking a job from anyone. They are thinner than human hair on RW right now.

 

This is probably the best course of action for a limited run — a month or two, basically — and you reassess from there.

Agree with you @Phil. He's not taking anyone's job. If he fails, they likely have to find a way to sign Kane or trade for a RW because Wheeler is not going to be effective anywhere but middle 6, preferably with managed minutes.

 

It's not just giving him the slot and the ice time, it's being really clear with him on what his role is. This is a player who (as we can see it) has no identity, there's no one thing he excels at. The speed isn't there, the dynamism in 1:1 situations isn't there. The passing is good, but the vision and creativity are lacking. The shot is good, but the decision making is poor.

 

I do agree that what he needs to hear is that come hell or high water, the job is his for the foreseeable future, and they are going to stick with him, just to take the pressure off and let him find his game. This really is the worst he's ever looked, playing with the best players he's ever played with (shocker, they all look bad, too).

 

They need to find a way to take the pressure off. He's not dealing with it well.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

Agree with you @Phil. He's not taking anyone's job. If he fails, they likely have to find a way to sign Kane or trade for a RW because Wheeler is not going to be effective anywhere but middle 6, preferably with managed minutes.

 

It's not just giving him the slot and the ice time, it's being really clear with him on what his role is. This is a player who (as we can see it) has no identity, there's no one thing he excels at. The speed isn't there, the dynamism in 1:1 situations isn't there. The passing is good, but the vision and creativity are lacking. The shot is good, but the decision making is poor.

 

I do agree that what he needs to hear is that come hell or high water, the job is his for the foreseeable future, and they are going to stick with him, just to take the pressure off and let him find his game. This really is the worst he's ever looked, playing with the best players he's ever played with (shocker, they all look bad, too).

 

They need to find a way to take the pressure off. He's not dealing with it well.

 

Exactly this. If one/two months from now it's the same story, same player, same results, you circle back on the conversation again and consider a grander change (trade/sign Kane).

 

All expectations are that Kane won't be ready until November last I read, so I'd basically tell Laugh, October is yours. Go out there and take it. Ignore the noise, head down, work on X/Y/Z — whatever they want him focusing on based on the nature of the line he's on — and we'll talk again then.

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

He already is the elephant in the room. The article double speaks and makes no sense. As much as they "need" him, it sends a terrible message to just allow him to be pedestrian and reward that type of play with top line minutes. Continue to force that square peg into the round hole .....good luck.

 

[RangersIn7]

Sticking him in the top line, keeping him there, and letting him just go out and play is probably your best course of action

 

And id say for 20+ games 

 

 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

I personally do not think Lafreniere should be forced onto a first line or into minutes. That smells like the team is still treating him like a 1OA, which means they are operating on three year old expectations rather than current ones. The time to throw meritocracy out of the window was in his first couple of seasons, when high picks are usually handed premium time because of how highly touted they are. He didn’t get that. The ship has sailed.

 

Unlike most here, I still think Lafreniere will probably be a good player, and he needs to be developed like a typical young player. The first line and the expectations that go with that are not a fit for him or the team right now. I think asking him to be a net positive player getting 15 min a night is just fine.

Edited October 5, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

I personally do not think Lafreniere should be forced onto a first line or into minutes. That smells like the team is still treating him like a 1OA, which means they are operating on three year old expectations rather than current ones. The time to throw meritocracy out of the window was in his first couple of seasons, when high picks are usually handed premium time because of how highly touted they are. He didn’t get that. The ship has sailed.

 

Unlike most here, I still think Lafreniere will probably be a good player, and he needs to be developed like a typical young player. The first line and the expectations that go with that are not a fit for him or the team right now. I think asking him to be a net positive player getting 15 min a night is just fine.

And that’s a fair take.

 

I think he’s still got a chance to be a good player too.

But it’ll probably still be another few seasons down the road, and he’ll be elsewhere.

 

At this point he’s a decent NHL 3rd liner. Which is fine… but not for a 1OVA

And they need more

 

Nothing they’ve done thus far has worked.

See what this does. 

[Blue Heaven]

Rangers version of Zach Wilson....has the tools, can't put it together.....yet.  Compound that w/ the pressure of being 1st overall, NYC, and NYR f'n w/ early 1st round draft picks it is/was a recipe for disaster.  Brooks nailed it, Rangers got 1st and 2nd picks in consecutive years at the wrong time.  

 

Just asking a question, but is it really that hard to move from LW to RW?  What is the biggest hang up that players can't adjust to the other side?  You'd think Laf being a lefty shot would have a better angle coming down on the rush on the right side.  

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Blue Heaven said:

Rangers version of Zach Wilson....has the tools, can't put it together.....yet.  Compound that w/ the pressure of being 1st overall, NYC, and NYR f'n w/ early 1st round draft picks it is/was a recipe for disaster.  Brooks nailed it, Rangers got 1st and 2nd picks in consecutive years at the wrong time.  

 

Just asking a question, but is it really that hard to move from LW to RW?  What is the biggest hang up that players can't adjust to the other side?  You'd think Laf being a lefty shot would have a better angle coming down on the rush on the right side.  

It's really not that hard. It's a little bit different to pick up pucks off the boards when you're not on your forehand, but there's no reason he shouldn't be able to master that. The nonsense about coming back and going to the left side automatically being the hardest thing was quite frankly baffling. Stay on your side of the ice, even Mites can do that.

 

It affects defenseman much more than forwards as it involves a back skating pivot to a different side than they have been their entire career. Good skaters will master that transition, but for example a guy like Rozsival couldn't do it after he injured his hip. 

[Br4d]

He had a rep for having a beautiful backhand pass too.  However we have yet to see that in the NHL.

 

When he passes to his left from the right side the pass always gets broken up.

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, yes, probably, but also, what choice do they have? At this point, 200+ games into this experiment, you really need to know what you have here. It's not like he's taking a job from anyone. They are thinner than human hair on RW right now.

 

This is probably the best course of action for a limited run — a month or two, basically — and you reassess from there.

I have zero problem with Wheeler playing top line minutes. He's better than what they have started seasons with in the top 6 for the last 3 years.  This notion that Wheeler can't handle it (Brooks take) is ridiculous. That's what he's here for. Top 6 RW and Kakko takes the other flank. Wheeler signing here alleviated that thin RW problem.  

 

If they want another option... Othmann can take that role and run with it.  Easily. Lafrenière would be taking that spot away from him if the Rangers are looking for another options.

 

There's no harm in trying Othmann there to see if he can do it.  If he falters, he can go to Hartford and has pretty much said he has no issue with going there. 

 

I'd have broken this rule a couple of years ago with giving the kid a job he doesn't deserve or hasn't earned. But not now. Not with Lafrenière.  

 

After he had a voice in the dismissal of Gallant (and probably Quinn), he has really stunk in pre season. 

 

Laviolette made it plain as day that he was challenging players that wanted bigger roles. This kid did absolutely nothing to warrant an upgrade. Nothing. He looked WORSE. I can't overlook that. Laviolette better not either and Drury better not have any pull in this, to force his hand. 

 

Laviolette set the table and the guidelines for expectations. He can't walk that back. He'd instantly be a fraud if he gave a top spot to Lafrenière. Just can't do it. Not unless fat boy has a stellar game against the Bruins. 

 

It's back to the 3rd line for Lafreniere.  Either as a LW or a RW. 

 

Kreider- Trocheck- Lafrenière 

 

Lafrenière- Trocheck- Goodrow/Vesey 

 

Lafrenière-Chytil- Kakko  

 

Until he puts something positive together,  I don't reward this guy with anything. I'm tired of the disappointment. 

 

He's has to climb out of the doghouse and be a noticeable factor on the ice for a game . A whole game! That's step 1.  If he can do that, then let's talk about even thinking about a top 6 role. 

 

There are 3- 4 players that deserve that spot over Lafrenière. Jonny frikken Brodzinski deserves it more at this point.  That's where we are at.