Br4d Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 hours ago, BrooksBurner said: Yes, but boxcar stats have been used for a long time as the baseline for contract negotiations. I think it's going to be a huge problem when Lafreniere deservedly wants big dollars on his next contract, and the Rangers are hardballing him with comparables in the 50 point boxcar range instead of the 50 point 5v5 range. It won't be a healthy relationship after he's already had to deal with a unique set of circumstances that have stifled special opportunities that are normally afforded to 1OAs. Laf is either going to want to be a Ranger or not by the time he really comes due. If not there isn't going to be anything the Rangers can do to change his mind. He'll go home for similar or better money that we are offering him here. That just is what it is. My take last season was that Laf was not particularly happy here and might well go home when he got the chance. This season he looks a lot happier on that line with Panarin and maybe if Panarin is still here in his walk year that will be a deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) These last couple of pages: Fwiw, both sides have a point. You can't really make the case to drop anyone currently on PP1 for him. The idea that he doesn't have the skillset to produce on the PP is pretty ridiculous and unfounded. Edited January 18 by Gravesy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 42 minutes ago, Gravesy said: These last couple of pages: Fwiw, both sides have a point. You can't really make the case to drop anyone currently on PP1 for him. The idea that he doesn't have the skillset to produce on the PP is pretty ridiculous and unfounded. And you're basing this on what? Plenty of great players get brain lock on the PP. Again, look at Pittsburgh. Look at Winnipeg. I think it's pretty ridiculous to assume someone can do something until they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valriera Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 4 hours ago, Pete said: And you're basing this on what? Plenty of great players get brain lock on the PP. Again, look at Pittsburgh. Look at Winnipeg. I think it's pretty ridiculous to assume someone can do something until they do it. That is equivalent to assuming someone cannot do something until they do it. It is unarguable fact that he hasn’t had the opportunity here. It’s totally arguable about should he have it, but he hasn’t and until he does “he can/he can’t” are the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 4 minutes ago, Valriera said: That is equivalent to assuming someone cannot do something until they do it. It is unarguable fact that he hasn’t had the opportunity here. It’s totally arguable about should he have it, but he hasn’t and until he does “he can/he can’t” are the same thing I never said he can't. I said I'm not adding an additional 20 to 30 points based on what he "would have" with power play time. I've also said that to date what we've seen is that he isn't good on the power play. I'm sure there are factors that go into that, but it doesn't change that he hasn't separated himself from anyone on PP2. They're all equally weak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 4 minutes ago, Pete said: I never said he can't. I said I'm not adding an additional 20 to 30 points based on what he "would have" with power play time. I've also said that to date what we've seen is that he isn't good on the power play. I'm sure there are factors that go into that, but it doesn't change that he hasn't separated himself from anyone on PP2. They're all equally weak. You have to have some kind of estimate if he were getting 280-300 PP minutes with a high % of that being OZ time, instead of 80-100 minutes stitched together with large chunks of non-OZ time because of where the puck is when PP2 hops on. This argument that it'd make zero points difference is wild stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 25 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: You have to have some kind of estimate if he were getting 280-300 PP minutes with a high % of that being OZ time, instead of 80-100 minutes stitched together with large chunks of non-OZ time because of where the puck is when PP2 hops on. This argument that it'd make zero points difference is wild stuff. That would be wild, if that was the argument. But it isn't, and you know it isn't, so I don't know why you even bothered saying this. It's equally wild to automatically attach 20 to 30 points. It's an assumption based on the talent on PP1, Not on him being good on the power play. Edited January 18 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Just now, Pete said: That would be wild, if that was the argument. But it isn't, and you know it isn't, so I don't know why you even bothered saying this. It's equally wild to automatically attach 20 to 30 points. What is your estimate? And who is attaching 20-30 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: What is your estimate? And who is attaching 20-30 points? I revised my post. Lots of people. I don't know if it's you specifically, but I've definitely read that somewhere on this board. I didn't make that up out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Pete said: I revised my post. Lots of people. I don't know if it's you specifically, but I've definitely read that somewhere on this board. I didn't make that up out of thin air. I think you and I could get 5-10 pts on PP1. My expected range would be 10-20 additional points. He’s on track for 50 points right now. Even if you sell him short in that range, around 10-12, we are still talking about a 60+ point guy. Not bad at 22. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 hours ago, Pete said: I revised my post. Lots of people. I don't know if it's you specifically, but I've definitely read that somewhere on this board. I didn't make that up out of thin air. He's getting 25% of the power play time now. Maybe from a position of disadvantage, it's hard to say. For that he has 2 power play goals and 2 power play assists. I think it is not unreasonable to suggest that he'd have 20+ points on the power play for the season if he was on power play1 and getting 75% of the play with better assets around him. I mean you can hem and haw and talk about lack of evidence but in fact he has 2 power play goals and 2 power play assists in about a quarter of the power play time halfway through the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 9 hours ago, Br4d said: He's getting 25% of the power play time now. Maybe from a position of disadvantage, it's hard to say. For that he has 2 power play goals and 2 power play assists. I think it is not unreasonable to suggest that he'd have 20+ points on the power play for the season if he was on power play1 and getting 75% of the play with better assets around him. I mean you can hem and haw and talk about lack of evidence but in fact he has 2 power play goals and 2 power play assists in about a quarter of the power play time halfway through the season. I do not agree with your assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valriera Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Sometimes there are no words and you just tip your hat to someone who worked their ass off 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 I was just going to post (somewhere else) that the Laf Reset thread had not been bumped in 2+ months and you bumped it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 1 minute ago, Valriera said: Sometimes there are no words and you just tip your hat to someone who worked their ass off They need to figure out a way to have this version of Lafreniere every night. If he brought this game every game, he would be a point per game player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 I know late last season a lot of folks, me included, were questioning his work ethic and drive to improve. I'm glad to see this jump he has made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 (edited) He's practically an untouchable piece now, because the only guys you'd even trade him for aren't getting traded. He's PPG as soon as he's PP1. He probably would be sniffing 70 points right now if he already was this year. Edited March 31 by BrooksBurner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valriera Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 He could be at that mark this year based on the number of quality chances missed. Lately he’s cashing those in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 1 minute ago, Valriera said: He could be at that mark this year based on the number of quality chances missed. Lately he’s cashing those in. Also Panarin has been unlucky on breakaways this season. 0-11. Figure Laf gets 3 or 4 assists that way if the breaks go the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 39 minutes ago, Pete said: They need to figure out a way to have this version of Lafreniere every night. If he brought this game every game, he would be a point per game player. I wonder who’s the last player to finish a season p/pg while not playing on the teams 1st PP unit. I can’t think of anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 11 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said: I wonder who’s the last player to finish a season p/pg while not playing on the teams 1st PP unit. I can’t think of anyone. Great question. I know he doesn't get a lot of power play time, but he's very unimpressive on PP2. That's why I don't buy any argument that he have X many extra points if he got PP time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valriera Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 he’d have more. Idk how many. But onto the great trivia question. I believe Jeff Skinner last year spent around half the time on PP1. Before then, I have no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 21 minutes ago, Pete said: Great question. I know he doesn't get a lot of power play time, but he's very unimpressive on PP2. That's why I don't buy any argument that he have X many extra points if he got PP time. The talent on PP2 is no where near the same. I don't think it's a stretch to say he'd have 15ish more points if he was on PP1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 6 hours ago, Long live the King said: The talent on PP2 is no where near the same. I don't think it's a stretch to say he'd have 15ish more points if he was on PP1. Can't say he's a line driver who isn't benefitting from his linemates and then also say this. It's not like there's no talent at all on PP2, and you're a man up. He looks as confused as anyone on PP2. It's kind of a shame he's not going to get PP1 time anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 9 hours ago, Pete said: Great question. I know he doesn't get a lot of power play time, but he's very unimpressive on PP2. That's why I don't buy any argument that he have X many extra points if he got PP time. Right. Because he wouldn't be playing on PP1 with Adam Fox and Artemi Panarin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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