2022-23 Off-season Thread: Endless Pain, Hatred, and Rage ... Also Boredom

[Butcher Icebone]

Im really struggling with this elimination. Like I knew the Devils would get good but I didnt think they would leap frog us so bad in our rebuilds.

 

Hughes, Nico, Mercer, and Luke Hughes in the upcoming pipe.

 

Kakko and Laf have been complete fails. Chytil is meh.

 

How do we miss so bad? 

 

 

[jamsim1967]

11 hours ago, 4EverRangerFrank said:

^Agree to a point. I don’t want Panarin launching Trouba hits, that might break him in half. But I agree with your overall point that playoffs bring out the physical game and our squad doesn’t play that way game in and game out. We can, and we did for part of the series but our ‘go to’ game model is the perfect pass highlight reel tic-tac-toe for a goal. Nope. Doesn’t cut it in April/May. 

Not launching hits, but not shying away from contact either.

[siddious]

6 minutes ago, Butcher Icebone said:

Im really struggling with this elimination. Like I knew the Devils would get good but I didnt think they would leap frog us so bad in our rebuilds.

 

Hughes, Nico, Mercer, and Luke Hughes in the upcoming pipe.

 

Kakko and Laf have been complete fails. Chytil is meh.

 

How do we miss so bad? 

 

 

The thing is the rangers didn’t really rebuid. Sure they got kakko and Laf and added miller and and Schneider. fox came in and Mika kinda took over the team but it wasn’t a true rebuild. More of a re-tool which is what they were calling it anyway. 
 

also devils were terrible while the rangers were still good. If anything it should be impressive how quickly the rangers turned things around. 

[FanaticsKnowBest]

One thing that will change for the Devils next year is they will not sneak up on anyone like this year. Every opponent next year will take them seriously. Much different when you have a target on your back. 
 

Observation. Please correct me if I am wrong. Hughes is an exceptional skater…..speed, quickness, acceleration……during our series, he did not seem strong on his skates. He got checked off the puck easier than I expected. I know he is not big. And easier said than done. Noticing the same thing against Carolina. 

[RichieNextel305]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

The thing is the rangers didn’t really rebuid. Sure they got kakko and Laf and added miller and and Schneider. fox came in and Mika kinda took over the team but it wasn’t a true rebuild. More of a re-tool which is what they were calling it anyway. 
 

also devils were terrible while the rangers were still good. If anything it should be impressive how quickly the rangers turned things around. 

Listen I’m not bowing down and kissing New Jersey’s ass here. Two games in that series, we kicked their ass. Three games that series, they kicked ours. Game 3 was a push. Game 6 was half and half. It’s not as if we walked in, got swept and had no chance beginning to end. The bottom line is that for longer stretches, their strength shined while ours didn’t.

 

It was a disgraceful loss. It was a pitiful effort. But lets not make it seem like we may be miles and miles and miles away here. It’s not as if we have a roster of 37 year olds and we’re at the end of the road. We do need some very smart, very well thought tinkering. 

[RichieNextel305]

End of the day, Jerseys a good team. We’re a good team. Point wise, we end up separated by a few points. We went the distance in a playoff series. We have different ways of playing. Theirs is speed, so that’s now our flavor of the month because it was the formula that beat us. 
 

I’m not taking anything away from the Devils. They built themselves up nicely. But to say they have and we haven’t isn’t accurate. Shesterkin was a draft pick. Lindgren was a prospect received while rebuilding. Miller was a draft pick. Chytil was a draft pick. Lafreniere and Kakko cloud our minds here because the inevitable comparison to Hughes and Hischier, but nothing we can do there. Their 2 have hit, our 2 haven’t.

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

End of the day, Jerseys a good team. We’re a good team. Point wise, we end up separated by a few points. We went the distance in a playoff series. We have different ways of playing. Theirs is speed, so that’s now our flavor of the month because it was the formula that beat us. 
 

I’m not taking anything away from the Devils. They built themselves up nicely. But to say they have and we haven’t isn’t accurate. Shesterkin was a draft pick. Lindgren was a prospect received while rebuilding. Miller was a draft pick. Chytil was a draft pick. Lafreniere and Kakko cloud our minds here because the inevitable comparison to Hughes and Hischier, but nothing we can do there. Their 2 have hit, our 2 haven’t.

 

And let's clarify, Hughes is a generational player. It is what it is. Hischier, however, wasn't even considered a good 1OA for many years. He had a pretty good rookie season and then was very average (and also hurt) for 3 seasons after. It wasn't until last year when Jack Hughes got good that Hischier started posting better numbers in his 5th year.

[RichieNextel305]

4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

And let's clarify, Hughes is a generational player. It is what it is. Hischier, however, wasn't even considered a good 1OA for many years. He had a pretty good rookie season and then was very average (and also hurt) for 3 seasons after. It wasn't until last year when Jack Hughes got good that Hischier started posting better numbers in his 5th year.

Yeah. I agree.

 

If I recall, leading into the Hischier draft, Nolan Patrick was the guy that many believed would go 1. Hischier jumped him. And the Hughes draft, I mean, that was a little bit of a tipping point I guess. Hughes is the best player on either team and will likely be that for the next decade. But, it is what it is. It doesn’t make them unbeatable and us the doormat.

 

But yeah, that’s the way it went. Obviously, if the balls bounced right and we ended up with Hughes instead of Kakko, things are much different between the franchises.

Edited May 4, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[siddious]

31 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Listen I’m not bowing down and kissing New Jersey’s ass here. Two games in that series, we kicked their ass. Three games that series, they kicked ours. Game 3 was a push. Game 6 was half and half. It’s not as if we walked in, got swept and had no chance beginning to end. The bottom line is that for longer stretches, their strength shined while ours didn’t.

 

It was a disgraceful loss. It was a pitiful effort. But lets not make it seem like we may be miles and miles and miles away here. It’s not as if we have a roster of 37 year olds and we’re at the end of the road. We do need some very smart, very well thought tinkering. 

There’s no shame in losing to the devils. They are a good team. They had a better season than the rangers. 
 

it’s the way the rangers lost that’s disgraceful. 
 

agreed on all points

[ausman]

Just amazing to me how many ex-Ranger players the FO gave up on are still more than serviceable players for other teams still in the playoffs.

[RichieNextel305]

17 minutes ago, siddious said:

There’s no shame in losing to the devils. They are a good team. They had a better season than the rangers. 
 

it’s the way the rangers lost that’s disgraceful. 
 

agreed on all points

Yep.

 

And the easiest point to harp on is Gallant because a lot of this board hates him. Some of it justified, some of it not. Again, they act like Ruff had a magic formula he whipped out for Game 3 and Gallant never adjusted. No, the Devils just felt desperation, got back to using their speed (which mind you, gave us fits this season) and played excellent in front of a backup who they knew they had a lower margin for error with. 
 

It wasn’t as if Ruff X’s and O’s lapped Gallant. The Devils improved as the series got going, the Rangers wilted. The Devils got back to their speed game, the Rangers couldn’t catch up. Simple. 
 

Now, do I agree with people saying someone like Quenneville or Trotz (I know he isn’t available I’m just using him as an example) coach tighter defensive teams with more structure? Fair points. But also, as an organization, we cannot keep recycling coaches. As bad as Lafreniere and Kakko have been here compared to their draft status, this would be their 3rd head coach. And not for nothing, at some point, 110 points and 107 points have to represent something.

 

I don’t know man. I’m torn. I see some points regarding Gallants limitations and I’m not dismissing them. But at the same time, I just really don’t know what the right answer is here. This is a difficult off-season to navigate. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[Blueshirts1926]

This not all on Galant but look at all of his priors teams as in year 3 he has been fired. He progressively goes done hill and does not last 3 years. Look at the thread about Gallant and I posted he coaching stats and based the stats and history before 2024 he would be fired and that’s another years of Shestsy longevity 

[RichieNextel305]

1 minute ago, Blueshirts1926 said:

This not all on Galant but look at all of his priors teams as in year 3 he has been fired. He progressively goes done hill and does not last 3 years. Look at the thread about Gallant and I posted he coaching stats and based the stats and history before 2024 he would be fired and that’s another years of Shestsy longevity 

Believe me, I know. That’s why I’m torn. Does that trend continue? Do we see that it’s different teams/different players/different situations?

 

 

[Blueshirts1926]

What we don’t know is did the team quit on Gallant? Trouba interview today he did not have many words for him but you could tell he was not saying what he wanted to say

 

if they could get JQ here I am for dumping Laf and Kakko and getting  FA guys like Caufield or Zehras (which who I wanted before they picked Kakko) Caulfield would flourish under Q and on a line with Panarin or Zib. 

[Br4d]

15 minutes ago, Blueshirts1926 said:

This not all on Galant but look at all of his priors teams as in year 3 he has been fired. He progressively goes done hill and does not last 3 years. Look at the thread about Gallant and I posted he coaching stats and based the stats and history before 2024 he would be fired and that’s another years of Shestsy longevity 

 

This is a player's coach progression.  He is a breath of fresh air for all the vets when he gets to a new team.  That only takes you so far though and it's human nature for some of the guys you're coaching to lose their edge when they have no professional fear going on because that's not the way you coach.

 

Then many of the players get comfortable with the arrangement and comfortable is always bad in professional sports.  Professional sports is a knife fight without visible blades and the costs can be in the millions for the losers and you don't know you're losing until you're flat on your ass and the other guy just took your lunch money.

 

The guys on the edge are working all the time, the Veseys and the Mottes, because as soon as they let up they are out of the NHL.  But everybody else has the choice to make of whether they're going to work as hard as they can or as hard as they can get away with and not lose their jobs and Gerard Gallant doesn't retire people prematurely because they're not playing hard.

 

Also, the NMC's.  What a disaster those are en masse.

[jsm7302]

15 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

This is a player's coach progression.  He is a breath of fresh air for all the vets when he gets to a new team.  That only takes you so far though and it's human nature for some of the guys you're coaching to lose their edge when they have no professional fear going on because that's not the way you coach.

 

Then many of the players get comfortable with the arrangement and comfortable is always bad in professional sports.  Professional sports is a knife fight without visible blades and the costs can be in the millions for the losers and you don't know you're losing until you're flat on your ass and the other guy just took your lunch money.

 

The guys on the edge are working all the time, the Veseys and the Mottes, because as soon as they let up they are out of the NHL.  But everybody else has the choice to make of whether they're going to work as hard as they can or as hard as they can get away with and not lose their jobs and Gerard Gallant doesn't retire people prematurely because they're not playing hard.

 

Also, the NMC's.  What a disaster those are en masse.

Unless you're Kakko in the playoffs......

 

The NMC's are ridiculous. They are so short sighted. Panarin got one because he is elite. The rest of em are kind of a joke.

[RichieNextel305]

 

[BrooksBurner]

56 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

 

 

Yeah, Drury was probably pissed at the piss poor effort and lack of forecheck. Gallant probably fired back you got me no forecheckers at the deadline and you can't paint stripes on a cat and call it a tiger.

[Sod16]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

This is a player's coach progression.  He is a breath of fresh air for all the vets when he gets to a new team.  That only takes you so far though and it's human nature for some of the guys you're coaching to lose their edge when they have no professional fear going on because that's not the way you coach.

 

Legit observation.  The thing is, the half life of the bad cops who require adherence to their system isn't any longer.  They get a buy in for a year or two before the push back.  See Keenan and Torts.

[Sharpshooter]

8 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Yeah, Drury was probably pissed at the piss poor effort and lack of forecheck. Gallant probably fired back you got me no forecheckers at the deadline and you can't paint stripes on a cat and call it a tiger.

They romped New Jersey in three games of the season, and they should have romped them even with no or minimal forechecker types. When they actually played the way we know they can, it was a no contest.

 

This might also give us more fuel for the Drury firing Gallant speculation, which I think was all but certain anyway.

[BrooksBurner]

I haven't seen Lafreniere's exit interview, but Kakko saying "I need PP time and to play more" shows he's mad that he sees Hughes and Hischier across the river got handed the keys from day one without earning it, and now they're getting paid and they're thriving. He's one year from a new contract again and he sure as hell doesn't want to play even strength only to get 40ish points again. He wants PP time and 50-60 points which he assuredly would get if he's on the right dot of PP1. None of this bumper shit where he would barely touch the puck watching Panarin and Fox play keep away. I begged for it all season to put Kakko or Chytil in that spot. It's time. Kakko is better with the puck, he goes first.

Edited May 4, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

If players want power play time they should earn it with their even strength effort, and the kid line just don't.

 

You can say whatever you want about Gigi but the fact is the Rangers have been one of the worst five on five especially on the defensive side of the puck teams since he got here. With the level of raw talent on the blue line, that's simply should not be the case. Nobody in the world can right size that gap. It's time for him to go. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

I haven't seen Lafreniere's exit interview, but Kakko saying "I need PP time and to play more" shows he's mad that he sees Hughes and Hischier across the river got handed the keys from day one without earning it, and now they're getting paid and they're thriving. He's one year from a new contract again and he sure as hell doesn't want to play even strength only to get 40ish points again. He wants PP time and 50-60 points which he assuredly would get if he's on the right dot of PP1. None of this bumper shit where he would barely touch the puck watching Panarin and Fox play keep away. I begged for it all season to put Kakko or Chytil in that spot. It's time. Kakko is better with the puck, he goes first.

 

Great. Show it at ES. Score goals at ES and you're all but guaranteed to get PP time. That's how it works. Show offensive instinct and actually score goals and you'll get there.

[jsm7302]

40 minutes ago, Pete said:

If players want power play time they should earn it with their even strength effort, and the kid line just don't.

 

You can say whatever you want about Gigi but the fact is the Rangers have been one of the worst five on five especially on the defensive side of the puck teams since he got here. With the level of raw talent on the blue line, that's simply should not be the case. Nobody in the world can right size that gap. It's time for him to go. 

The talent is the sole reason they were even decent playing a non existent defensive system. The number of times a guy was parked in front without a stick on his stick was infuriating. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

Is it opening night of the 23-24 season yet?