2022-23 Off-season Thread: Endless Pain, Hatred, and Rage ... Also Boredom

[fletch]

Since Tarasenko and Kane were rentals, salary cap dictates shedding talent. 

 

Yes, this year was a failure with Drury's moves and a first round exit. 

 

Last year we were close to a first round exit (needed two game 7 series wins) so maybe we got some extra puck luck last year... but I'm more concerned about the players' performance in game 5 and 7 (outside of Shesterkin).  The knee-jerk is to change the culture by getting rid of the coach.  Since we had a players coach that means finding a disciplinarian.

 

IMO this is really on the long-time Rangers that haven't got it done no matter who the coach has been.

 

Good luck acquiring a Tkachuk but that is what has been missing from this team for a long time.  A nasty presence that searches for physical contact and goes to the net to get ugly goals.  Kreider's is invaluable on the PP and will take physical punishment but he's not going to do dirty work digging and prying by the net.

 

Plenty of talent but not enough Tkachuk/Bertuzzi players that you hate to face but love to have on your team.  No team worries about a physical battle with the Rangers.  They just have to keep their head up when Trouba is lurking in the defensive zone.

[Slobberknocker]

never addressed the 5 on 5 play and the def just looked off all year.

 

dont know what got into fox last nite but hell of a nite to have an off game.

 

nhl is throwing around queenvile as a replacement to GG this afternoon.

 

seems like we never learn and always want the shiny new toy.

 

[Phil]

26 minutes ago, fletch said:

Since Tarasenko and Kane were rentals, salary cap dictates shedding talent. 

 

Yes, this year was a failure with Drury's moves and a first round exit. 

 

Last year we were close to a first round exit (needed two game 7 series wins) so maybe we got some extra puck luck last year... but I'm more concerned about the players' performance in game 5 and 7 (outside of Shesterkin).  The knee-jerk is to change the culture by getting rid of the coach.  Since we had a players coach that means finding a disciplinarian.

 

IMO this is really on the long-time Rangers that haven't got it done no matter who the coach has been.

 

Good luck acquiring a Tkachuk but that is what has been missing from this team for a long time.  A nasty presence that searches for physical contact and goes to the net to get ugly goals.  Kreider's is invaluable on the PP and will take physical punishment but he's not going to do dirty work digging and prying by the net.

 

Plenty of talent but not enough Tkachuk/Bertuzzi players that you hate to face but love to have on your team.  No team worries about a physical battle with the Rangers.  They just have to keep their head up when Trouba is lurking in the defensive zone.

 

It's not about players coach versus disciplinarian. It's about finding a better tactician. Quenneville or Laviolette, who've been talked about, are that. They're both barkers, too, but so is Gallant. Especially on the bench.

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, Dunny said:

Just want to be very clear as the  coach chatter amplifys...

 

The "system" Ruff deployed was a 1-2-2. It's not rocket surgery. Wanna get crazy? Deploy a 1-3-1. There's no secrets, here. Hockey is very basic. 

 

Gallant didn't adjust, well maybe, but he also doesn't have the personnel to chip it in and pound their D. 

 

 

Rocket surgery eh? 

 

[FanaticsKnowBest]

4 coaches since 2009. And 2 more years until Igor’s contract is up. So they better figure it out soon or risk him walking. He wants to win. Henrik endured what Igor is dealing with right now. And the Devils are poised to be a problem for many years to come. Igor was far and away their best player. 

[Arty]

The Rangers look fucked at this point

lots of high priced NMC contracts not to mention Fox who looks to be the equivalent of the Yankees pitcher Ed Whitson

 

that weak ass attempt at defense for the first goal was abominable

 

i don’t know how you right this ship

[fletch]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

It's not about players coach versus disciplinarian. It's about finding a better tactician. Quenneville or Laviolette, who've been talked about, are that. They're both barkers, too, but so is Gallant. Especially on the bench.

I may be mistaken in the point you are making, so I will react to the general strawman 'the Rangers lost the series to the Devils at least in part because they were outcoached.  the Rangers were the better team in games 1 and 2 and the Devils adjusted.  The Rangers lost the series because their tactics never varied and they never adjusted like the Devils did'

 

The Rangers didn't show up in Games 5 and 7.  When your team mails it in (clearly does not put in hard work and enough effort to generate chances in the offensive zone.  clearly does not hustle back to break up plays in the defensive zone.  refuses to play a more physical game to generate chances on the cycle/forecheck in the offensive zone and disrupt the Devils play in their defensive zone).  Flings cross-ice passes and stays on the perimeter.

 

You can be the most brilliant x and o tactician in the world.  If your players coast and don't earn high danger scoring chances and don't negate the opposition, you are not going to win games.  And that's the most damning indictment of the series against the Devils.  The Devils outworked the Rangers and deserved to win.  Games 1, 2, and 6 the Rangers blew out the Devils - so this wasn't a case of facing a superior opponent.   This was a series that the Rangers' players could have won but had plenty of energy left at the end of a game 7.   And that's a look in the mirror situation, not a point a finger at the coach or management.

[RichieNextel305]

9 minutes ago, fletch said:

I may be mistaken in the point you are making, so I will react to the general strawman 'the Rangers lost the series to the Devils at least in part because they were outcoached.  the Rangers were the better team in games 1 and 2 and the Devils adjusted.  The Rangers lost the series because their tactics never varied and they never adjusted like the Devils did'

 

The Rangers didn't show up in Games 5 and 7.  When your team mails it in (clearly does not put in hard work and enough effort to generate chances in the offensive zone.  clearly does not hustle back to break up plays in the defensive zone.  refuses to play a more physical game to generate chances on the cycle/forecheck in the offensive zone and disrupt the Devils play in their defensive zone).  Flings cross-ice passes and stays on the perimeter.

 

You can be the most brilliant x and o tactician in the world.  If your players coast and don't earn high danger scoring chances and don't negate the opposition, you are not going to win games.  And that's the most damning indictment of the series against the Devils.  The Devils outworked the Rangers and deserved to win.  Games 1, 2, and 6 the Rangers blew out the Devils - so this wasn't a case of facing a superior opponent.   This was a series that the Rangers' players could have won but had plenty of energy left at the end of a game 7.   And that's a look in the mirror situation, not a point a finger at the coach or management.

I agree.

 

And believe me, I’m not saying Gallant is free of blame. But this is more effort than X’s and O’s.

 

That falls more on the individuals who take shifts than on the coach. You shouldn’t need to be hyper motivated to take the ice for a playoff series with a rival team. Especially in Game 7.

 

This is more of a statement that their top guys outplayed our top guys. And by a mile.

 

Our top point producer had 2 secondary assists in Game 1 and went 6 games without a point while barely being visible. Their top point producer had 3 goals, 2 assists and was buzzing a good chunk of this series; specifically in Game 7.

 

That is way more of an issue if you ask me. I’m not saying coaching isn’t. But this is a way bigger issue than just coaching.

[FanaticsKnowBest]

They barely won any 50/50 battles and hardly anything along the walls. They were stick checking, puck watching, and not finishing checks. Very first odd man rush of the game, Mika has a chance to get a shot on net to test Scmid immediately, and they don’t get a shot off. As RichieNextel just said, coach be damned, there is plenty of motivation for Game 7 of the playoffs. Pride, your teammates, etc. To heck if you are unhappy with the coaching staff. Also not saying the coaches are absolved of responsibility. Games 5 and 7 were a disgrace. 

[fletch]

And my follow up on tactics and coaching is how did the Leafs beat the Lightning this year?

 

Did Cooper forget all the strategy that led them to 2 Cups and a SCF appearance?

 

Yes, the Lightning had injuries in their defensive structure, which helped contribute to Vasilevskiy being uncharacteristically generous in giving up goals.

 

But man, if you watched that series, it was an all-out physical battle of attrition.  There were ugly goals, hard forechecks, skirmishes after the whistle, bad blood, dirty plays.  Everything that you expect from a playoff series.  The Leafs finally figured out that you can't just trot out a team of talented skilled players and have that be enough to win a playoff series.  Sure they made some roster tweaks that helped.   But they also convinced their key players to get into the slot, get into the crease, win one on one battles, earn tough rebounds and loose pucks, and jam home goals.

[Scott]

Toe Blake could of been behind the bench last night and with that lack of urgency and passion they weren't winning.  Hard to comprehend.

[FanaticsKnowBest]

Something silly that annoyed me…….this building up Schmid as a story. Ridiculous. The press and analysts made this out as if Schmid was standing on his head, facing high danger chances all over the place. Not the case at all IMO. He was barely tested. That was part of the problem. They are making this guy out to be the next Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek. He made NHL quality saves. That’s all. Igor was the goaltending story. 

[jsm7302]

10 minutes ago, FanaticsKnowBest said:

Something silly that annoyed me…….this building up Schmid as a story. Ridiculous. The press and analysts made this out as if Schmid was standing on his head, facing high danger chances all over the place. Not the case at all IMO. He was barely tested. That was part of the problem. They are making this guy out to be the next Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek. He made NHL quality saves. That’s all. Igor was the goaltending story. 

You're right but this team has a way of making goaltenders into stories.....Spicy Pork Domingue last year and Schmid this year.

 

The lack of effort in getting to loose pucks and lack of physical contact on puck battles lost this series as well as an impotent power play when it mattered most.

[jamsim1967]

Devils wanted it more. They were skating harder, they were hitting and they wanted every lose puck. They punched the Rangers in the gut, and the Rangers couldn't, or chose not to punch back. Florida vs Boston, and Tampa vs Toronto were much better series to watch, and not because of the coaching. it was the players on the ice. All four teams played hard physical hockey. If they were going down, they were going down swinging. Playoff hockey, and both series should be roadmaps for the Rangers. This team has a history of mailing it in, and in this series, they didn't disappoint. So go ahead, blame Gallant. But you can't coach toughness, or heart. 

 

Tarasenko is the only player out of the top 6 that I'd want on my team if I were trying to win a cup.

[jamsim1967]

48 minutes ago, FanaticsKnowBest said:

Something silly that annoyed me…….this building up Schmid as a story. Ridiculous. The press and analysts made this out as if Schmid was standing on his head, facing high danger chances all over the place. Not the case at all IMO. He was barely tested. That was part of the problem. They are making this guy out to be the next Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek. He made NHL quality saves. That’s all. Igor was the goaltending story. 

They tested him game 6, and disappeared as quickly as they appeared.

[Phil]

58 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

You're right but this team has a way of making goaltenders into stories.....Spicy Pork Domingue last year and Schmid this year.

 

The lack of effort in getting to loose pucks and lack of physical contact on puck battles lost this series as well as an impotent power play when it mattered most.

 

Easy to do when your average shot distance is like 65 fucking feet.

[The Dude]

Just throwing it out there. 

 

A big contract that should be easy to move simply because the player is good . How about shipping out Fox?

 

Pushes Miller up to top offensive D man, making it easier (making more sense) to extend him for more money.  Trouba slides up or  Schneider takes that next step. Sign a Klingberg or maybe Dumba if you desire a vet for the 1st or 2nd pair. 

 

It's definitely frustration talking, but would they miss him all that much? Is he worth that contract himself? It's the only movable big contract. His no move only kicks in at year 4 I believe. 

 

Is 

79- Dumba/ 8/4

55- 8/4/Dumba/ Klingberg 

Jones/Robertson- /8/4/ Klingberg 

 

Bad at all? 

 

Could totally get any type of RW+ in any trade. 

 

Something to think about.  Or totally not think about. 

 

[Phil]

They would miss him terribly. He's the only creative defensman they have capable of making an outlet pass. The next best guy on the team capable of moving the puck up the ice is the god damned goalie.

 

Fox had his worst game as a Ranger in that game seven and has plenty of problems to work on, but trading him would probably kill them and set the franchise back a decade.

[jsm7302]

It was just painful to know the tools were there and just weren't utilized in certain scenarios.

Goodrow, Brodzinski and Motte are all motor with no quit. All they had to do was throw one on each line to get some fire on the forecheck but instead they kept the fourth line together who were really useless for the most part as a unit. Call me an armchair coach, idc. This wasn't a hard game plan to break down and give themselves a chance. The only time they won was when the power play fired otherwise they were beat to every puck. 

 

Ok, I feel a little better.

[BrooksBurner]

13 hours ago, Pete said:

You want to shake the ground under people's feet without killing your cap?

 

Trade Kreider. 

Bad take.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Bad take.

 You're in another thread talking about the team being better with their worst forward rather than their best and you're in here talking about bad takes?  

 

Half the shit you recommend is based in trying to punish players you don't like, pump the tires of guys you do, and doesn't actually make the team better. Give it a rest.  

[BrooksBurner]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

 You're in another thread talking about the team being better with their worst forward rather than their best and you're in here talking about bad takes?  

 

Half the shit you recommend is based in trying to punish players you don't like, pump the tires of guys you do, and doesn't actually make the team better. Give it a rest.  

I’ve been beside you defending Panarin the entire year. I just know when to let go. You seem to have issues moving on with players you’ve gone to bat for. And before you even bring up Chytil, I’ve mentioned him in trades many a times. I want the team to do whatever it takes to make the team a Cup contender. You just dig in too deep on players that you can’t pivot.

[jamsim1967]

8 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

It was just painful to know the tools were there and just weren't utilized in certain scenarios.

Goodrow, Brodzinski and Motte are all motor with no quit. All they had to do was throw one on each line to get some fire on the forecheck but instead they kept the fourth line together who were really useless for the most part as a unit. Call me an armchair coach, idc. This wasn't a hard game plan to break down and give themselves a chance. The only time they won was when the power play fired otherwise they were beat to every puck. 

 

Ok, I feel a little better.

We're all arm-chair coaches. Good idea, but if they had done that and still lost a lot of people would have complained about it. You don't win Stanley Cups by playing not to lose, you roll up your sleeves and you go for it. Skill players on this team need to understand that the next time they are trying to avoid contact, or getting beat to the puck. Skill players should be able to play physical hockey when the game calls for it.

[4EverRangerFrank]

^Agree to a point. I don’t want Panarin launching Trouba hits, that might break him in half. But I agree with your overall point that playoffs bring out the physical game and our squad doesn’t play that way game in and game out. We can, and we did for part of the series but our ‘go to’ game model is the perfect pass highlight reel tic-tac-toe for a goal. Nope. Doesn’t cut it in April/May. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by 4EverRangerFrank

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Thought this was interesting. As you can see, the playmaker managed to create one single HDC the entire series. Trocheck 3x as many.

 

I think it's fair to say there's no one else than Panarin to blame for his embarrassing showing these 7 games.