GDT 2021-22 NHL Trade Deadline: All in, Bay Bay!

[BrooksBurner]

https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/robin-lehner-in-danger-of-missing-rest-of-2021-22-season

 

 

Quote

The Vegas Golden Knights have a goalie problem.

 

With the team in danger of missing the post-season for the first time in franchise history, The Athletic's Jesse Granger reported that goaltender Robin Lehner could be forced to miss the rest of the season for what Daily Faceoff's Frank Seravalli said is related to a knee injury.

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/ice-breakers-golden-knights-lehner-could-miss-remainder-of-regular-season/

 

Quote

Sources say the Golden Knights are active and making calls on the goaltending market.

 

GM Kelly McCrimmon flatly denied our previous report that the Golden Knights had explored a potential reunion with Marc-Andre Fleury. We reported then that they had also checked in with the New York Rangers on Alexandar Georgiev.

Georgiev to Vegas would make a lot of sense. Not sure Vegas can afford Fleury (assets or cap).

[jsm7302]

Send him for a third rounder!

[BrooksBurner]

Depending on Reilly Smith’s injury, I could see Georgiev++ for him.

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

? 

Larson

Giordano 

Chychrun 

 

I'm sure if I shrink the list to just D men, it would show more. 

 

Leddy doesn't have to be his former self. He has to be a guy that has been there before and can guide the younger players.  He'd be 3rd in points for D men  on the Rangers btw. The Rangers don't need a big time game changer on D. They need experience.  

 

Detroit is an absolute shit show and you're using +/- as your argument. 

 

The fact that Detroit has him sitting,  in anticipation of a trade should tell you there's interest from around the league. So I guess the league wants trash....? 

 

Guys been there and hes better than Nemeth. That's why you get him.

 

(Edit, I don't know why I always confuse Dunn with McNabb, I had listed Dunn with the other names)

Correct. Detroit is a shit show. Leddy leads the shit. Of course there are teams interested. His name still Carrie’s some importance. That doesn’t mean he would be a great trade. Saying he’s better than Nemeth doesn’t really mean too much. There’s an entire league full of better than Nemeth guys out there. 
 

You’re argument is “go get Leddy now.” Really. In 2022 they should be running to target getting a guy that hasn’t been a + in the NHL since the 14/15 season. Last year Leddy on a very good defensive team still found himself 26th on the team for +/- and worst among defensemen on the team. He’s lower half every year. 

Giordano has been in the league since 2005. Only 4 of those years found him a -. 

Larsson since 2011/12 and only 4 of those years -

Chychrun even found a way to be a + on Arizona twice and he’s not even known for his defense. Leddy has been trending down for quite a while.  I’m not saying he can’t be obtained but I hardly put him in a “go get him now” type of necessity at all.  -91 since the start of the 15/16 season. Woof. 
 

[Keirik]

24 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/robin-lehner-in-danger-of-missing-rest-of-2021-22-season

 

 

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/ice-breakers-golden-knights-lehner-could-miss-remainder-of-regular-season/

 

Georgiev to Vegas would make a lot of sense. Not sure Vegas can afford Fleury (assets or cap).

To further that, I have a hard time thinking Fleury would even accept that trade snyway. There’s a lot of bitterness there. 

[Lord Al]

 

[fletch]

49 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/robin-lehner-in-danger-of-missing-rest-of-2021-22-season

 

 

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/ice-breakers-golden-knights-lehner-could-miss-remainder-of-regular-season/

 

Georgiev to Vegas would make a lot of sense. Not sure Vegas can afford Fleury (assets or cap).

How does Georgiev help Vegas make the playoffs?

[Valriera]

7 minutes ago, fletch said:

How does Georgiev help Vegas make the playoffs?

He’s a goalie that could probably breathe oxygen for a few games 

[BrooksBurner]

13 minutes ago, fletch said:

How does Georgiev help Vegas make the playoffs?

He’s better than Logan Thompson and Laurent Brossoit.

[Keirik]

14 minutes ago, fletch said:

How does Georgiev help Vegas make the playoffs?

I assume they would look at the consecutive games played with increasing save % and think it means something more than it does.

 

maybe we can get Howden back? 

[Ozzy]

Just now, Keirik said:

I assume they would look at the consecutive games played with increasing save % and think it means something more than it does.

 

maybe we can get Howden back? 

 

 

 

LOL

[LindG1000]

If we can finagle something with Vegas for Georgiev, I'd be looking at their bottom 6. Keegan Kolesar or Nicolas Roy would be solid fits on our team.

[fletch]

9 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

He’s better than Logan Thompson and Laurent Brossoit.

Sure about that?  They'd be treading water and losing an asset.

https://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies

Laurent Brossoit  .895 2.90

Alexandar Georgiev  .892 3.14

Logan Thompson  .897 3.43

[Long live the King]

1 hour ago, rmc51 said:

Depending on Reilly Smith’s injury, I could see Georgiev++ for him.

 

Totally, would allow them to active Stone early to help right the ship.  Not sure what his injury is but he was playing through it all year.  Surgery would make him miss the playoffs so they aren't gonna do that right now.  He's had 5 weeks off.  They need him.  If he doesn't come back now there will be no playoffs to save him for.  They can still rest him another week or 2 after trading Smith.

[Cash or Czech]

RE: Leddy, he's actually a better player than Nemeth. 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/leddyni01.html

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nemetpa01.html

 

Nemeth actually is getting more help from his goalie than Leddy, and the possession metrics are far and away in Leddy's favor while getting slightly more help in terms of zone starts (Leddy is about 54% offensive while Nemeth is 37%. Leddy is also doing this with an average of 21:33 per game, while Nemeth is sheltered at just 16:59 TOI/G. 

 

That means Leddy is eating up a ton of ice time for Detroit, probably above where he should be playing. If he was put into a role where he doesn't have to take as tough of assignments or as much ice time, I think the stats would tilt more favorably towards him. He'd be behind Lindgren and Miller here. He has the highest TOI for a LHD on Detroit. 

 

I'm not really a fan and I think we can do better, but I think the out and out "he sucks" isn't necessarily justified solely on +/-. 

[Long live the King]

Just now, Long live the King said:

 

Totally, would allow them to active Stone early to help right the ship.  Not sure what his injury is but he was playing through it all year.  Surgery would make him miss the playoffs so they aren't gonna do that right now.  He's had 5 weeks off.  They need him.  If he doesn't come back now there will be no playoffs to save him for.  They can still rest him another week or 2 after trading Smith.

 

Conversely, with Smith injured and not timeline for return currently, Smith for Geo straight up.  We can rest Smith for a few of weeks since we pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot.

[Long live the King]

2 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

RE: Leddy, he's actually a better player than Nemeth. 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/leddyni01.html

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nemetpa01.html

 

Nemeth actually is getting more help from his goalie than Leddy, and the possession metrics are far and away in Leddy's favor while getting slightly more help in terms of zone starts (Leddy is about 54% offensive while Nemeth is 37%. Leddy is also doing this with an average of 21:33 per game, while Nemeth is sheltered at just 16:59 TOI/G. 

 

That means Leddy is eating up a ton of ice time for Detroit, probably above where he should be playing. If he was put into a role where he doesn't have to take as tough of assignments or as much ice time, I think the stats would tilt more favorably towards him. He'd be behind Lindgren and Miller here. He has the highest TOI for a LHD on Detroit. 

 

I'm not really a fan and I think we can do better, but I think the out and out "he sucks" isn't necessarily justified solely on +/-. 

 

That zone start difference is not slight, it's pretty significant.  Nemeth was also dealing with a lot of shit earlier in the year.  He's been better since his kid was born.

[Cash or Czech]

5 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

That zone start difference is not slight, it's pretty significant.  Nemeth was also dealing with a lot of shit earlier in the year.  He's been better since his kid was born.

 

I mean that's fair, but Nemeth is a possession black hole by the books. The eye test isn't much better, and he presents a clear opportunity to upgrade. For reference, Miller has 54% defensive zone starts, and Lindgren 57%. The only defenseman on our entire team with more offensive zone starts than defensive is Fox, most likely because of his PP duties. So maybe there's a bigger problem 5v5 than zone starts, since we seem to be pinned in our zone. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Cash or Czech

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Lord Al said:

 

I'm really surprised they are moving both Manson and Lindholm.

[Drew a Penalty]

1 hour ago, fletch said:

How does Georgiev help Vegas make the playoffs?

 

Georgiev probably doesn't help a team like Vegas in particular, but he could be of use to a team that limits high danger shots against better than the Rangers.

 

Looking at Georgiev's stats this season, despite a reputation for soft goals, his medium danger SV% is .917 and his low danger SV% is .975. For comparison, Shesterkin has a MDSV% of .938 and a LDSV% of .979. What separates the two is a big difference between their HDSV%: .799 for Georgiev and .874 for Shesterkin. Georgiev's HDSV% ranks him 45th in the league among goalies with 10+ GP while Shesterkin ranks 5th. You can argue that Shesterkin is even better when facing high dancer chances given his HDGSAA is 13.56 which is bested only by Darcy Kuemper at 14.36.

 

The Rangers bleed high danger chances, they're the fourth worst in high danger shots against in the league with 445 against. This pretty much works with the narrative that we've seen all season that Shesterkin has had to put on god tier performances to keep the Rangers in games. The only teams giving up as many chances are around the bottom of the league. The exceptions are Vegas with 439 HDSA, and they've been struggling, and Florida with 435 HDSA. Florida's saving grace is that it leads the league in HDSF with 512 which is nearly 40 more than Toronto in 2nd place at 475. Florida can still produce tons of chances and goals despite giving up many. The Rangers and Vegas are not as fortunate and require higher level goaltending.

 

Georgiev wouldn't be a great fit in Vegas because of the HD shots given up. Brossoit has a .844 HDSV% while Lehner has a .817. Where he would compare favorably to them is in MDSV% and LDSV%. Brossoit has a MDSV% of .913 and a LDSV% of .957. Lehner has a MDSV% of .929 and a LDSV% of .963. Georgiev has been better at facing both MD and LD shots than Brossoit, and better at facing LD than Lehner.

 

Tldr; Georgiev would probably be best suited on a team that collapses more and suppresses HDSA. He's shown that he's actually very capable of shutting down MD and LD SA, but there's some struggle with HDSA. What his issues are with HDSA, I don't know, but the Rangers do face a great deal of high danger attempts. Getting him behind a stronger defense would most likely improve his performance, and possibly his confidence which could lead to overall better play. Vegas would not be a good fit, but teams like Minnesota, Dallas, Washington, etc. could be.

[Sod16]

Geo makes more sense for a team interested in a possible No. 1 for next year as opposed to someone to step in and immediately help them.  Varlomov would make sense for Vegas if they can fit him into the cap, and NYI needs to free up cap to improve over the off season.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

Georgiev probably doesn't help a team like Vegas in particular, but he could be of use to a team that limits high danger shots against better than the Rangers.

 

Looking at Georgiev's stat's this season, despite a reputation for soft goals, his medium danger SV% is .917 and his low danger SV% is .975. For comparison, Shesterkin has a MDSV% of .938 and a LDSV% of .979. What separates the two is big difference between their HDSV%: .799 for Georgiev and .874 for Shesterkin. Georgiev's HDSV% ranks him 45th in the league among goalies with 10+ GP while Shesterkin ranks 5th. You can argue that Shesterkin is even better when facing high dancer chances given his HDGSAA is 13.56 which is bested only by Darcy Kuemper at 14.36.

 

The Rangers bleed high danger chances, they're the fourth worst in high danger shots against in the league with 445 against. This pretty much works with the narrative that we've seen all season that Shesterkin has had to put on god tier performances to keep the Rangers in games. The only teams giving up as many chances are around the bottom of the league. The exceptions are Vegas with 439 HDSA, and they've been struggling, and Florida with 435 HDSA. Florida's saving grace is that it leads the league in HDSF with 512 which is nearly 40 more than Toronto in 2nd place at 475. Florida can still produce tons of chances and goals despite giving up many. The Rangers and Vegas are not as fortunate and require higher level goaltending.

 

Georgiev wouldn't be a great fit in Vegas because of the HD shots given up. Brossoit has a .844 HDSV% while Lehner has a .817. Where he would compare favorably to them is in MDSV% and LDSV%. Brossoit has a MDSV% of .913 and a LDSV% of .957. Lehner has a MDSV% of .929 and a LDSV% of .963. Georgiev has been better at facing both MD and LD shots than Brossoit, and better at facing LD than Lehner.

 

Tldr; Georgiev would probably be best suited on a team that collapses more and suppresses HDSA. He's shown that he's actually very capable of shutting down MD and LD SA, but there's some struggle with HDSA. What his issues is with HDSA, I don't know, but the Rangers do face a great deal of high danger attempts. Getting him behind a stronger defense would most likely improve his performance, and possibly his confidence which could lead to overall better play. Vegas would not be a good fit, but teams like Minnesota, Dallas, Washington, etc. could be.

@Philgive this post some recognition!

 

This is really a fantastic breakdown that reinforces what some of us have been saying all year.

[Keirik]

18 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

RE: Leddy, he's actually a better player than Nemeth. 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/leddyni01.html

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nemetpa01.html

 

Nemeth actually is getting more help from his goalie than Leddy, and the possession metrics are far and away in Leddy's favor while getting slightly more help in terms of zone starts (Leddy is about 54% offensive while Nemeth is 37%. Leddy is also doing this with an average of 21:33 per game, while Nemeth is sheltered at just 16:59 TOI/G. 

 

That means Leddy is eating up a ton of ice time for Detroit, probably above where he should be playing. If he was put into a role where he doesn't have to take as tough of assignments or as much ice time, I think the stats would tilt more favorably towards him. He'd be behind Lindgren and Miller here. He has the highest TOI for a LHD on Detroit. 

 

I'm not really a fan and I think we can do better, but I think the out and out "he sucks" isn't necessarily justified solely on +/-. 

Well, there are a lot of players better than Nemeth. My argument isn't as much around saying Lddy outright sucks as it is issue with the idea of "go get Leddy now." In no way should we be targeting Leddy specifically. he's even scarier to me because while he's tending down over a significant amount of years, he's been doing so on the younger side of 30. If it's a trade for nothing? Sure. I don't give up anything remotely significant for Nick Leddy though. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Keirik said:

Correct. Detroit is a shit show. Leddy leads the shit. Of course there are teams interested. His name still Carrie’s some importance. That doesn’t mean he would be a great trade. Saying he’s better than Nemeth doesn’t really mean too much. There’s an entire league full of better than Nemeth guys out there. 
 

You’re argument is “go get Leddy now.” Really. In 2022 they should be running to target getting a guy that hasn’t been a + in the NHL since the 14/15 season. Last year Leddy on a very good defensive team still found himself 26th on the team for +/- and worst among defensemen on the team. He’s lower half every year. 

Giordano has been in the league since 2005. Only 4 of those years found him a -. 

Larsson since 2011/12 and only 4 of those years -

Chychrun even found a way to be a + on Arizona twice and he’s not even known for his defense. Leddy has been trending down for quite a while.  I’m not saying he can’t be obtained but I hardly put him in a “go get him now” type of necessity at all.  -91 since the start of the 15/16 season. Woof. 
 

Again  +/- is a stat that people say shouldn't be used to gauge how good a player is. 

 

As for other guys being better than "just better than Nemeth"... Have those guys won a cup and been to 4 other conference finals and a semi?

 

I want more leadership.  I want back bone. I want another guy that has won and been apart of runs. 

 

I want Leddy here because it shouldn't cost as much as the other names out there. Nevermind that he's not half bad. I say go get him now, because you don't want to get in a bidding war for what is essentially your bottom pairing LD. 

 

You don't want him. Great. I do. I think he's a really good fit for what this team needs, which is a serviceable leader that has actually won. 

 

Marc Staal isn't being held out of games as a potential trade chip. That's who you suggest. The fact that there's actually interest in Leddy and NOT Staal doesn't make you stop and think? One is an asset. The other is riding out possibly his last contract and not being held out of games. I'm obviously not a dumb dick for thinking Leddy would be a decent get. NHL GMs have shown enough interest in this pile of shit player that he's being held out of games... 

 

Shrug

 

Ok

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by The Dude

[The Dude]

10 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

Geo makes more sense for a team interested in a possible No. 1 for next year as opposed to someone to step in and immediately help them.  Varlomov would make sense for Vegas if they can fit him into the cap, and NYI needs to free up cap to improve over the off season.

That's what I'm thinking.  But what team is willing to make Georgiev their go to guy right now?

 

Seattle? Buffalo? Detroit? SJ?

Edmonton makes the most sense to me. But I think their GM said he's not making a move for a goalie.. 

 

Georgiev should have been moved when Lundqvist was still here. Probably was at his highest value at that time

 

His value is so up and down though out each season since.  They have been putting off moving him in hopes of a max return and now are likely to lose him for nothing this offseason. They're not going to qualify him. He gone. I don't see another team helping the Rangers right now in dealing a guy like Halak or Holtby at a reasonable cost.