GDT 2021-22 NHL Trade Deadline: All in, Bay Bay!

[Pete]

+/-, like any other stat, is useful in context.

• Marc Staal is +10 and leads the Wings
• Nick Leddy is -33
• The next closest defenseman is -20

When your top +/- player is +10 and the worst is -33, that tells you a lot.

[Keirik]

5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Again  +/- is a stat that people say shouldn't be used to gauge how good a player is. 

 

As for other guys being better than "just better than Nemeth"... Have those guys have won a cup and been to 4 other conference finals and a semi?

 

I want more leadership.  I want back bone. I want another guy that has won and been apart of runs. 

 

I want Leddy here because it shouldn't cost as much as the other names out there. Nevermind that he's not half bad. 

 

You don't want him. Great. I do. I think he's a really good fit for what this team needs, which is a serviceable leader that has actually won. 

 

Marc Staal isn't being held out of games as a potential trade chip. That's who you suggest. The fact that there's actually interest in Leddy and NOT Staal doesn't make you stop and think? One is an asset. The other is riding out possibly his last contract and not being held out of games. I'm obviously not a dumb dick for thinking Leddy would be a decent get. NHL GMs have shown enough interest in this pile of shit player that he's being held out of games... 

 

Shrug

 

Ok

 

 

So i should gauge my own opinion around what players are held out of the lineup? GMs make dumb trades all the time.  There's just as much reason to just say a guy is being held out of a lineup because he's not exactly vital to that lineup on any given day. Or because some GM showed interest. That doesn't mean it's some intelligent move. Yzerman said the entire team basically is available for the right price.

 

   Also, I  didn't suggest Staal. I said i wouldn't be opposed to him. There's a big difference between saying "go get player X now" and "i wouldn't be opposed to player Y " Leddy won a cup when he was 21. He was not the guy there leading Chicago to a cup so I'm not sure that has much to do with anything. What backbone is Nick Leddy bringing? He has 31 hits this year. That puts him right on par with such bruisers such as Strome and Fox. 

  

[BrooksBurner]

25 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

Georgiev probably doesn't help a team like Vegas in particular, but he could be of use to a team that limits high danger shots against better than the Rangers.

 

Looking at Georgiev's stats this season, despite a reputation for soft goals, his medium danger SV% is .917 and his low danger SV% is .975. For comparison, Shesterkin has a MDSV% of .938 and a LDSV% of .979. What separates the two is a big difference between their HDSV%: .799 for Georgiev and .874 for Shesterkin. Georgiev's HDSV% ranks him 45th in the league among goalies with 10+ GP while Shesterkin ranks 5th. You can argue that Shesterkin is even better when facing high dancer chances given his HDGSAA is 13.56 which is bested only by Darcy Kuemper at 14.36.

 

The Rangers bleed high danger chances, they're the fourth worst in high danger shots against in the league with 445 against. This pretty much works with the narrative that we've seen all season that Shesterkin has had to put on god tier performances to keep the Rangers in games. The only teams giving up as many chances are around the bottom of the league. The exceptions are Vegas with 439 HDSA, and they've been struggling, and Florida with 435 HDSA. Florida's saving grace is that it leads the league in HDSF with 512 which is nearly 40 more than Toronto in 2nd place at 475. Florida can still produce tons of chances and goals despite giving up many. The Rangers and Vegas are not as fortunate and require higher level goaltending.

 

Georgiev wouldn't be a great fit in Vegas because of the HD shots given up. Brossoit has a .844 HDSV% while Lehner has a .817. Where he would compare favorably to them is in MDSV% and LDSV%. Brossoit has a MDSV% of .913 and a LDSV% of .957. Lehner has a MDSV% of .929 and a LDSV% of .963. Georgiev has been better at facing both MD and LD shots than Brossoit, and better at facing LD than Lehner.

 

Tldr; Georgiev would probably be best suited on a team that collapses more and suppresses HDSA. He's shown that he's actually very capable of shutting down MD and LD SA, but there's some struggle with HDSA. What his issues are with HDSA, I don't know, but the Rangers do face a great deal of high danger attempts. Getting him behind a stronger defense would most likely improve his performance, and possibly his confidence which could lead to overall better play. Vegas would not be a good fit, but teams like Minnesota, Dallas, Washington, etc. could be.

I would be interested to see Georgiev’s numbers during stretches he gets multiple, consecutive starts. Without doing a deep dive into Georgiev’s numbers, it seems pretty obvious he plays much better with reps rather than spot starts. Pulling his stats this year is almost a misnomer for him because he has been largely asked to spot start. That’s part of the allure. If he goes to Vegas and is “the guy” for the rest of the year, there’s good potential there.

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

+/-, like any other stat, is useful in context.

• Marc Staal is +10 and leads the Wings
• Nick Leddy is -33
• The next closest defenseman is -20

When your top +/- player is +10 and the worst is -33, that tells you a lot.

Yeah, i hate using the stat. I really do. But when you see it being an overall trend, it starts to show something.

21/22 Leddy 32nd in +/- on team

20/21 Leddy 26th in +/- on team

19/20 Leddy 19th in +/- on team

18/19 Leddy 21st in +/- on team

17/18 Leddy 33rd in +/- on team

 

   Cant just ignore that if it's every year. And some of those teams are good teams too.

 

[Cash or Czech]

26 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Well, there are a lot of players better than Nemeth. My argument isn't as much around saying Lddy outright sucks as it is issue with the idea of "go get Leddy now." In no way should we be targeting Leddy specifically. he's even scarier to me because while he's tending down over a significant amount of years, he's been doing so on the younger side of 30. If it's a trade for nothing? Sure. I don't give up anything remotely significant for Nick Leddy though. 

 

Yup, I agree with that. I don't want Leddy. There are much better options. Just adding context to the situation.

[The Dude]

9 minutes ago, Keirik said:

So i should gauge my own opinion around what players are held out of the lineup? GMs make dumb trades all the time.  There's just as much reason to just say a guy is being held out of a lineup because he's not exactly vital to that lineup on any given day. Or because some GM showed interest. That doesn't mean it's some intelligent move. Yzerman said the entire team basically is available for the right price.

 

   Also, I  didn't suggest Staal. I said i wouldn't be opposed to him. There's a big difference between saying "go get player X now" and "i wouldn't be opposed to player Y " Leddy won a cup when he was 21. He was not the guy there leading Chicago to a cup so I'm not sure that has much to do with anything. What backbone is Nick Leddy bringing? He has 31 hits this year. That puts him right on par with such bruisers such as Strome and Fox. 

  

Yeah, I forgot Goodrow was the focal point of the Lightning cups. Sammy Blais too. These are guys everyone pumps up as winners. Leddy can't be used in the same manner? 

 

Again shrug ok

[Drew a Penalty]

13 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I would be interested to see Georgiev’s numbers during stretches he gets multiple, consecutive starts. Without doing a deep dive into Georgiev’s numbers, it seems pretty obvious he plays much better with reps rather than spot starts. Pulling his stats this year is almost a misnomer for him because he has been largely asked to spot start. That’s part of the allure. If he goes to Vegas and is “the guy” for the rest of the year, there’s good potential there.

 

If we want to look at the stretch of starts he had in December (12/4-12/17) then his stats are as follows:

 

5v5 Stats

6 GP

.929 SV %

2.00 GAA

1.90 GSAA

.864 HDSV%

.946 MDSV%

.965 LDSV%

 

So, yes it's worth assuming that he requires getting into a rhythm to find his game. The Rangers didn't change their style of play in that span, as they were actually league worst in HDSA through that span of dates with 59 HDSA.

 

Georgiev seems to operate off rhythm and confidence. Probably doesn't help that the fanbase is largely composed of boo birds against him despite his teammates constant attempts to reassure him. Listen to any interview with Rangers players about goaltending this season. They're always propping Georgiev up along with Shesterkin i.e. "We have two capable goalies..." I just don't think Georgiev can find the right headspace here given the pressures, losing his opportunity to become the starter (he genuinely thought he could succeed Lundqvist), and the sheer amount of difficult chances he faces. He hasn't been a good goaltender of late, but he's not been downright awful and he can likely find success elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Yeah, i hate using the stat. I really do. But when you see it being an overall trend, it starts to show something.

21/22 Leddy 32nd in +/- on team

20/21 Leddy 26th in +/- on team

19/20 Leddy 19th in +/- on team

18/19 Leddy 21st in +/- on team

17/18 Leddy 33rd in +/- on team

 

   Cant just ignore that if it's every year. And some of those teams are good teams too.

 

Yea, and I I wouldn't even go back that far. When there's a difference of 40, that's just god awful. Leddy plays 5 more mins a game but that's still shitty.

[RJWantsTheCup]

I can't wait for the deadline to be over with so we can go back to discussing how much McKegg, Hunt, Chytil, etc suck.

[Long live the King]

43 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Yeah, I forgot Goodrow was the focal point of the Lightning cups. Sammy Blais too. These are guys everyone pumps up as winners. Leddy can't be used in the same manner? 

 

Again shrug ok

 

 

Nick Leddy won a cup playing 14:21 per game, last among the Hawks D in the playoffs.  He had 2 points and was -8.

 

Goodrow:

19/20 - Played 18 minutes a game which was from 6th most TOI at 5v5 and the top pk

20/21 - Plated 17 minutes a game which was from 4th most TOI at 5v5 and the top pk

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

40 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

If we want to look at the stretch of starts he had in December (12/4-12/17) then his stats are as follows:

 

5v5 Stats

6 GP

.929 SV %

2.00 GAA

1.90 GSAA

.864 HDSV%

.946 MDSV%

.965 LDSV%

 

So, yes it's worth assuming that he requires getting into a rhythm to find his game. The Rangers didn't change their style of play in that span, as they were actually league worst in HDSA through that span of dates with 59 HDSA.

 

Georgiev seems to operate off rhythm and confidence. Probably doesn't help that the fanbase is largely composed of boo birds against him despite his teammates constant attempts to reassure him. Listen to any interview with Rangers players about goaltending this season. They're always propping Georgiev up along with Shesterkin i.e. "We have two capable goalies..." I just don't think Georgiev can find the right headspace here given the pressures, losing his opportunity to become the starter (he genuinely thought he could succeed Lundqvist), and the sheer amount of difficult chances he faces. He hasn't been a good goaltender of late, but he's not been downright awful and he can likely find success elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Nice breakdown. That’s quite an improvement over the .799 HDSV Georgiev has on the season. If I’m Vegas, I’m probably tempted to roll the dice on him finding some rhythym if Lehner is out for the year despite Vegas’ similar propensity as the Rangers in giving up HDSC. Unless there’s a better option for them on the market.

 

The added bonus is the Rangers can retain AND take cap back rest of season to facilitate the deal.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

 

[RichieNextel305]

2 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

 

Wow. Why? He’s so young.

Edited March 18, 2022 by RichieNextel305

[RJWantsTheCup]

Rangers should look into Hagel, but something tells me he won't be traded here.

 

[Sharpshooter]

This could be nothing, it is ESPN after all, but Kakko is now in a Sharks jersey on his player page.

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/_/id/4565223

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

2 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Wow. Why? He’s so young.

 

i guess we'll see whats coming back but could be a big haul

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

strick saying TB

 

 

[RichieNextel305]

 

[RichieNextel305]

Waiting to see the return.

[RichieNextel305]

Looks like Chicago is getting multiple firsts back for him. Nothing official yet, just speculation.

[Drew a Penalty]

So glad to see Tampa adding depth players with multi-year contracts. They really need it! Meanwhile the Rangers have Filip Chytil who'll figure things out as soon as he gets both of his eyes to look straight.

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 minute ago, Drew a Penalty said:

So glad to see Tampa adding depth players with multi-year contracts. They really need it! Meanwhile the Rangers have Filip Chytil who'll figure things out as soon as he gets both of his eyes to look straight.

The rich always find ways to get richer.

[Blue Heaven]

Katchouk, Raddysh, '23 1st round, '24 1st Round for Hagel, '22 4th round, '24 4th round

per Buccigross on Twitter

Edited March 18, 2022 by Blue Heaven

[RJWantsTheCup]

3 minutes ago, Blue Heaven said:

Katchouk, Raddysh, '23 1st round, '24 1st Round for Hagel, '22 4th round, '24 4th round

Sounds like an awful lot, but if they 3 peat nobody in Tampa will complain.

[Cash or Czech]

I woulda done that from a Rangers perspective. Guy seems like a great producer for $1.5mil. Not sure Drury want's to be "all in" but that's a move that would be great for helping with the cap for the next two seasons after this one too.