Brooks Rangers, Strome Talking Extension

[Pete]

29 minutes ago, Costa said:

Strome will want 6.5 per MINIMUM to stay here. Copp 6.5 MAXIMUM. If there's a way to resign Copp AND Vatrano...rather have those 2 than just Strome.

There is no realistic way to afford 3 players. It'll be Motte+ one of Strome, Vatrano, Copp. 

[fletch]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

I'd also caution everyone rushing to let Strome walk to remember what happened to Jagr when the Rangers did the same to Nylander, thinking the grass was greener. It wasn't. The trade tree there bore uncommon fruit (McDonagh for Gomez), but it was only made possible through a really awkward and less productive transition because of that decision.

 

tl;dr version: don't fuck with happy.

Or the rationale to trade Buchnevich.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/07/24/pavel-buchnevich-trade-was-move-rangers-plan-demanded/

[Pete]

1 hour ago, fletch said:

Or the rationale to trade Buchnevich.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/07/24/pavel-buchnevich-trade-was-move-rangers-plan-demanded/

Ironically, from that article:

Quote

 

But there is no place for, say, nine similar talents who can’t assume traditional third- and fourth-line roles. This was not former coach David Quinn’s fault, but there were almost always guys out of place in the lineup because there was no defined spot for them. There was no real distinction between the second line’s duties and the third line’s responsibilities. The fourth line was essentially a repository for leftovers or guys being taught lessons.

 

That is going to change. It won’t be that way under this administration or under incoming head coach Gerard Gallant.

 

 

 

 

 

[fletch]

38 minutes ago, Pete said:

Ironically, from that article:

 

 

 

 

Yeah, overoptimistic how quickly roster construction issues can be fixed

[RangersIn7]

They’ll simply never be able to admit they traded him cause they thought, foolishly so, that Eichel was on his way. 

[Keirik]

13 hours ago, Long live the King said:

There's not way they resign Vatrano.  That defeats the purpose of trading Buch.  Likely one of Cuylle and Othmann make the team just because they are cheap.

 

CK - Zib - Kakko

Panarin - Strome or Copp - Blais

Laf - Chytil - Goodrow

Cuylle - Rooney - maybe Motte

 

As for D.  Gotta trade Nemeth.

 

Lindgren - Fox

Miller - Trouba

Jones/Robertson - Schneider

 

I think next year is Lindgren's last year here.  I think he'll get moved and that $3 mil goes to Miller.

 

Also Garand is not going to be the backup.  He needs to play to continue his development.  

I don’t think resigning Vatrano in any way is related to Buch in any more of a way than to say we have grit elsewhere and don’t need 4-5 different versions of the same thing.  Blais is nice but he’s also slightly redundant on a team that’s primary problem boils down to secondary scoring. 
  Buch was a 60 point player. The Rangers couldn’t pay him market value. Vatrano, despite his good tenure here, won’t command Buch money. If he does, you say ah salute and good luck Frankie but if he takes a 2 year contract in a still flat cap world I think you have to really be interested if the dollar is right. 
 

 I think bringing Vatrano back is slightly more realistic than Copp. 

[jsm7302]

Vatrano has been in the league for 6/7 years and never eclipsed 40 points. I think Blais may be able to bring what Vatrano has in the interim if Blais injury. Ill keep Motte if he keeps Goodrow on the third line otherwise Brodzinski also brings energy and forechecking to the table.

 

Copp is versatile and was on track last year and this year for about 58 points. Copp should be the target now with Strome. Gotta make a move to keep both but I believe it will be worthwhile. 

[Long live the King]

7 hours ago, Keirik said:

I don’t think resigning Vatrano in any way is related to Buch in any more of a way than to say we have grit elsewhere and don’t need 4-5 different versions of the same thing.  Blais is nice but he’s also slightly redundant on a team that’s primary problem boils down to secondary scoring. 
  Buch was a 60 point player. The Rangers couldn’t pay him market value. Vatrano, despite his good tenure here, won’t command Buch money. If he does, you say ah salute and good luck Frankie but if he takes a 2 year contract in a still flat cap world I think you have to really be interested if the dollar is right. 
 

 I think bringing Vatrano back is slightly more realistic than Copp. 

 

Laf and Kakko have to be relied on next year and I think Cuylle will be in the lineup.  I'd rather pay Rooney and Motte a combined $2.5-3 than sign Vatrano for $3.5 and have McKegg's on the 4th line.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Long live the King

[RodrigueGabriel]

8 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

Vatrano has been in the league for 6/7 years and never eclipsed 40 points. I think Blais may be able to bring what Vatrano has in the interim if Blais injury. Ill keep Motte if he keeps Goodrow on the third line otherwise Brodzinski also brings energy and forechecking to the table.

 

Copp is versatile and was on track last year and this year for about 58 points. Copp should be the target now with Strome. Gotta make a move to keep both but I believe it will be worthwhile. 

Blais has never eclipsed 15 points, lol. He had 0 goals and 4 assists in the 14 games before being Subbaned and never had more than 8 goals in any season of a 4 yr career. Vatrano has 7 goals in the last 16 games. I'm having trouble  following your reasoning. 

[jsm7302]

9 minutes ago, RodrigueGabriel said:

Blais has never eclipsed 15 points, lol. He had 0 goals and 4 assists in the 14 games before being Subbaned and never had more than 8 goals in any season of a 4 yr career. Vatrano has 7 goals in the last 16 games. I'm having trouble  following your reasoning. 

You call it a four year career but are failing to recognize he has played 133 games, not even a full two seasons worth. His stats were trending up and he had an opportunity to step into a top 6 or at least top 9 role here to flourish. I think he would have had some success and would be interested in seeing it play out.

[RangersIn7]

Just now, jsm7302 said:

You call it a four year career but are failing to recognize he has played 133 games, not even a full two seasons worth. His stats were trending up and he had an opportunity to step into a top 6 or at least top 9 role here to flourish. I think he would have had some success and would be interested in seeing it play out.

They missed him this year in the middle-6. There’s no denying it. No matter how his numbers would have shaken out

[Sharpshooter]

I forgot who they played him with exactly, but I remember him fitting in and doing well. There's some interesting personnel decisions to make this offseason.

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

I forgot who they played him with exactly, but I remember him fitting in and doing well. There's some interesting personnel decisions to make this offseason.

Early in the year, he looked good with Goodrow and LaFreniere.

 

Small sample though. 

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

You call it a four year career but are failing to recognize he has played 133 games, not even a full two seasons worth. His stats were trending up and he had an opportunity to step into a top 6 or at least top 9 role here to flourish. I think he would have had some success and would be interested in seeing it play out.

The thing is the actual trend is that he's never healthy. You can't clear a spot moving forward for a guy that hasn't played anywhere near a full season (not even shortened seasons) in his 5 year career. 

 

I loved what I saw from him when he played here. That's the type of player Ranger fans love. Tons of energy with a tiny bit of flash. But the kid can't stay healthy. I'd love to have him back. But only on the cheap and penciled in as a 4th liner/extra forward, with the hope he exceeds that. 

 

Vatrano could command upwards of 4 to 5 million.  Buchnevich signed a decent deal. Ppg player last year and this year. 5.8 per X 4.  

 

I agree that giving Vatrano his worth, defeats the purpose of trading Buch. Not that I don't like Vatrano. I'd rather the more complete player for just a little more money. 

 

But for now. Go Vatrano!!! 

[RodrigueGabriel]

2 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

You call it a four year career but are failing to recognize he has played 133 games, not even a full two seasons worth. His stats were trending up and he had an opportunity to step into a top 6 or at least top 9 role here to flourish. I think he would have had some success and would be interested in seeing it play out.

You could make an argument that if Vatrano returns to and stays at the mean of his career, Blais could possibly, hopefully, deliver something similar. But there is nothing in Blais's NHL career to indicate that he could produce "what Vatrano has" for the Rangers, which is a 2.6 p/60, 35 goal pace since he has been here. Now Franky could just be going off, but what if he has found a rapport with Zib and CK that is analogous to the career-rewriting situation that Strome found with Panarin. If you can show me highlights that I've missed, I'll be happy to look, but at no time in those 14 games did I see plus hands and a plus shot from Blais. I saw a hard game, speed, and good defense that might make him a Fast-like compliment to Bread and Strome. Could def be a solid 3rd liner. But "what Vatrano has" brought is a deft and potent scoring touch that has been 1st line worthy. And Blais has not gotten near that - that I am aware of - either here or in STL. Fortunately, we'll get an augmented sample size from a higher value data set in the playoffs and have more to go on. Maybe he'll just, um, Tank. But I still think it's a leap of faith to assume that Blais can make up the difference that Vatrano has made thus far. 

[Cash or Czech]

In an effort to try and keep the current roster together, I'm curious if we'd be open to longer, back-diving contracts. Pretty sure the current rule is that the lowest salary year must be 50% of the highest. We can load up Strome up front on an 8-year, $37.5mil deal with $7mil in years 1 and 2, and back dive the last four at $3.5mil. AAV would be $4.75. He'd make 64% of the salary in the first half of the contract. It would give us a little bit of cap space breathing room, and give Strome security he's never had before. He turns 29 in the summer, would take him to age 37 which is terrifying. We have Panarin signed for another 4 seasons. With the back-diving cap hit, it would make a buyout more affordable at the tail end as well.

 

Just food for thought as we see this team do something special. I know Copp is a rental, but if we are married to it, there's ways to go all in now and worry about the future later. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Cash or Czech

[LindG1000]

15 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

In an effort to try and keep the current roster together, I'm curious if we'd be open to longer, back-diving contracts. Pretty sure the current rule is that the lowest salary year must be 50% of the highest. We can load up Strome up front on an 8-year, $37.5mil deal with $7mil in years 1 and 2, and back dive the last four at $3.5mil. AAV would be $4.75. He'd make 64% of the salary in the first half of the contract. It would give us a little bit of cap space breathing room, and give Strome security he's never had before. He turns 29 in the summer, would take him to age 37 which is terrifying. We have Panarin signed for another 4 seasons. With the back-diving cap hit, it would make a buyout more affordable at the tail end as well.

 

Just food for thought as we see this team do something special. I know Copp is a rental, but if we are married to it, there's ways to go all in now and worry about the future later. 

 

I think they'd have to consider it for a million reasons, not the least of which is that a 4.75M cap hit should be really manageable in year 5+ of that deal.

[Sod16]

Vatrano, and to some extent Copp, prove that you don't have to pay what Strome wants to get a player who will excel with the likes of Zib or Bread.

[Pete]

9 hours ago, Sod16 said:

Vatrano, and to some extent Copp, prove that you don't have to pay what Strome wants to get a player who will excel with the likes of Zib or Bread.

You don't know what Strome wants.

 

Why do you think it would be any different than what Copp wants?

 

 

[Sod16]

Strome currently makes more and has bigger offensive numbers over his career.  I included the "to some extent" qualifier due to a degree of uncertainty over how Stome's and Copp's value on the open market compare at the moment.

[The Dude]

Can we put off on picking favorites of the 2? Let's get through the playoffs then decide who is worth keeping over the other.

 

Right now they are both a part of a trio that we hope can stay hot and roll over everyone along with the rest of the team.

 

No shots or comparisons as to who does what and is worth more. They are BOTH integral pieces to this teams hopeful success right NOW. 

[Sod16]

Good point.  I'm glad they are clicking on a line together in spite of the knowledge that the team may ultimately have to choose between them.

[Cash or Czech]

I think one of the easiest ways to restructure a core part of this team is letting Strome walk and addressing this spot another way, whether through trade or signing.

 

Strome is a pending UFA. Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin are locks. Vatrano is probably a goner. Copp is 50/50. Lafreniere is starting to play like a top-6 forward. Kakko...has actually showed up in the playoffs at least. Tying up Strome long term to make the cap work might not be the best move if we want to change the identity of the team in a meaningful way. 

[siddious]

22 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

I think one of the easiest ways to restructure a core part of this team is letting Strome walk and addressing this spot another way, whether through trade or signing.

 

Strome is a pending UFA. Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin are locks. Vatrano is probably a goner. Copp is 50/50. Lafreniere is starting to play like a top-6 forward. Kakko...has actually showed up in the playoffs at least. Tying up Strome long term to make the cap work might not be the best move if we want to change the identity of the team in a meaningful way. 

i said it in another thread but im starting to lean this way. If only to fix the face off issue a little bit even. 

[josh]

Too plain down the middle with Zibanejad Strome and Chytil. Unfortunate position for Strome, but playoffs were do or die for his Rangers tenure.