Brooks Rangers, Strome Talking Extension

[BrooksBurner]

8 minutes ago, josh said:

I don’t think Strome nor Copp are coming back. Nature of the beast. 

 

That doesn't leave a lot of options outside of a trade. Do you think they will trade for a 2C?

[Capt]

10 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Well, agree to disagree. It’s a little more than just the wingers not helping. 

Of course it is.  The Rangers centers are getting beat clean.  Face-offs are really just a microcosm of the mentality of this team.  Face offs can be a team stat but not when. they are being g beaten clean that is on the center.  Frankly it's just another example of a low compete level.

[Capt]

Just now, rmc51 said:

 

That doesn't leave a lot of options outside of a trade. Do you think they will trade for a 2C?

No question.  The rangers have pieces to move and the Rangers desperately need a different look in their top 6.  

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Capt said:

No question.  The rangers have pieces to move and the Rangers desperately need a different look in their top 6.  

 

Which pieces?

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Capt said:

The Rangers need to develop a line that can actually sustain a meaningful forecheck.  Zib, Strome, Chytil are all weak along the boards and none of them are "puck hounds". Being hard to play against is not just hitting people.  It is far too easy to break out against the Rangers.  The Rangers are a low volume shot team because they look for the perfect shot and the players without the puck look for soft spots on the ice to receive a pass when simplifying would be to go to the net and pressure the goal and bang at rebounds.  The top 6 outside of Kreider does not do any of this.  The Rangers top 6 has been and is basically Zib/Kreider/whomever and Strome/Panarin/Whomever.

 

So when discussing this without getting butt hurt about Strome you're basically discussing 4 players, 1 of which will simplify and play playoff hockey.  The other three are needing a change because it is not in their DNA to change themselves.

 

Strome is an easy choice because he carries no contract after this season.  the Rangers are in cap crunch and it's impossible to believe that if this team goes out with the top 6 failing as bad as it has how the Rangers could cap out paying this top 6 to stay together long term.  

 

The lack of compete is truly alarming.  Strome was quoted as saying as much after Game 4.  There should be no discussion about compete level at this time of year, if it not a given and if it needs to be discussed something is seriously wrong.

 

Meaningful changes will require clearing a large amount of cap.  That means either being it all on this playoffs being an anomaly or trading a core piece.      

 

I'll wait to continue the conversation after the Rangers' playoffs are over, but you don't one and done an entire core. It really just doesn't work that way in the NHL. Continuity is huge.

[Capt]

1 minute ago, rmc51 said:

 

Which pieces?

They are loaded with defensive options to move.  Obviously some more desirable to keep than others but Miller, Schneider, Lundqvist, Jones, Robertson, Lindgren

Forwards Zib, Kakko, Chytil, Othmann, 1st round pick.

[Capt]

2 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

I'll wait to continue the conversation after the Rangers' playoffs are over, but you don't one and done an entire core. It really just doesn't work that way in the NHL. Continuity is huge.

Panarin, Zib, Strome are not one and done playoffs ghosts.  They are proven playoff ghosts

[Dunny]

No, we're definitely stuck pretending Panarin and Zibanejad are on par with actual superstars for the next decade, so buckle up. There's going to be a lot of great Novembers.

[Capt]

And Kreider has a long career of disappearing for extended periods of time.  Playoffs or not

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Capt said:

Panarin, Zib, Strome are not one and done playoffs ghosts.  They are proven playoff ghosts

When were these players in the playoffs? 

[Capt]

Just now, Dunny said:

No, we're definitely stuck pretending Panarin and Zibanejad are on par with actual superstars for the next decade, so buckle up. There's going to be a lot of great Novembers.

Thank you.  So obvious along with Fox.  

[Keirik]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

Sorry but I don't think a guy drops 5% in faceoffs because his linemates are getting used to him... It's been 20+ games. 

 I’ll go by years of career averages in over 450 games with multiple teammates over 20 games on a new team. It all would eventually even out. Hell if we are just going to judge based on 20 games, then we should lock up Copp anyway since here he clearly is a 90+ point player in a full year here, right? 
 

 But Im not sure what Copps slight change in faceoff % has to do with Strome at all. Copp 
 

Strome

4 years with Isles 44.2

2 years Edm 45.3

4 years NYR  45.6

 

  he’s just not good no matter what sweater he puts on. Not everything is Strome bashing.  

 

 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

 I’ll go by years of career averages in over 450 games with multiple teammates over 20 games on a new team. It all would eventually even out. Hell if we are just going to judge based on 20 games, then we should lock up Copp anyway since here he clearly is a 90+ point player in a full year here, right? 
 

 But Im not sure what Copps slight change in faceoff % has to do with Strome at all. Copp 
 

Strome

4 years with Isles 44.2

2 years Edm 45.3

4 years NYR  45.6

 

  he’s just not good no matter what sweater he puts on. Not everything is Strome bashing.  

 

 

Where did I mention Strome at all?

 

You're assuming Trocheck will keep up his FO% here and I'm offering Copp as evidence there's no guarantee of that. 

 

Don't move the goal post and make this something it isn't. 

[Capt]

Strome 22 playoff games

Panarin 34

Zib 35 

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, Capt said:

The Rangers need to develop a line that can actually sustain a meaningful forecheck.  Zib, Strome, Chytil are all weak along the boards and none of them are "puck hounds". Being hard to play against is not just hitting people.  It is far too easy to break out against the Rangers.  The Rangers are a low volume shot team because they look for the perfect shot and the players without the puck look for soft spots on the ice to receive a pass when simplifying would be to go to the net and pressure the goal and bang at rebounds.  The top 6 outside of Kreider does not do any of this.  The Rangers top 6 has been and is basically Zib/Kreider/whomever and Strome/Panarin/Whomever.

 

So when discussing this without getting butt hurt about Strome you're basically discussing 4 players, 1 of which will simplify and play playoff hockey.  The other three are needing a change because it is not in their DNA to change themselves.

 

Strome is an easy choice because he carries no contract after this season.  the Rangers are in cap crunch and it's impossible to believe that if this team goes out with the top 6 failing as bad as it has how the Rangers could cap out paying this top 6 to stay together long term.  

 

The lack of compete is truly alarming.  Strome was quoted as saying as much after Game 4.  There should be no discussion about compete level at this time of year, if it not a given and if it needs to be discussed something is seriously wrong.

 

Meaningful changes will require clearing a large amount of cap.  That means either being it all on this playoffs being an anomaly or trading a core piece.      

Who's getting butt hurt about Strome?

 

You're pointing out players who play a certain style all year long not changing their style for the playoffs, meanwhile you're not mentioning anything about people who play heavy hockey all year long and then don't do it in the playoffs.

 

Who do you think is more detrimental to the team? 

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Capt said:

They are loaded with defensive options to move.  Obviously some more desirable to keep than others but Miller, Schneider, Lundqvist, Jones, Robertson, Lindgren

Forwards Zib, Kakko, Chytil, Othmann, 1st round pick.

 

I've browsed a bunch in a scenario like this. I've had real trouble pin-pointing a guy who is 1) an immediate upgrade over Strome/Copp, 2) is of an appropriate age (i.e., as young or younger than Strome/Copp), 3) not cap prohibitive, and 4) would actually be available via trade. Unfortunately, what the Rangers are probably stuck with going this route is gambling on a 40 point player who they hope elevates his game.

 

Do you have option(s) in mind?

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Capt said:

Strome 22 playoff games

Panarin 34

Zib 35 

So not as a Rangers core. Who cares? 

[Keirik]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

Where did I mention Strome at all?

 

You're assuming Trocheck will keep up his FO% here and I'm offering Copp as evidence there's no guarantee of that. 

 

Don't move the goal post and make this something it isn't. 

I'm not moving anything. I said Copp would eventually even out and be to his regular %. Just like his production would eventually go down and he would perform more along his career averages. You mentioned Strome when I said upgrade over him and you disagreed. I thought the entire conversation was based on i think Trocheck would be an upgrade over Strome for the little things he does that Strome does not. Come on, I think we are passed the hot take terms like moving goal posts. 

[Capt]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

When were these players in the playoffs? 

 

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

Who's getting butt hurt about Strome?

 

You're pointing out players who play a certain style all year long not changing their style for the playoffs, meanwhile you're not mentioning anything about people who play heavy hockey all year long and then don't do it in the playoffs.

 

Who do you think is more detrimental to the team? 

I picking on the top 6 forwards.  Copp has been here for weeks and has been the best of the 6 which is not saying much.  Copp is a goner and should be.  Not worth discussing a rental who's playing hurt and for the most part has been the dwarf among midgets.  

 

Kreider I said is not doing his job.  Kreider does have a longer history here of performing well in the playoffs so I can justify that he's having a bad series and that his compete level is usually not the problem.

 

Vatrano?  Are you talking about him?  Please.

 

Panarin I don't want mucking it up and I want him finding space and creating and with the right line mates maybe he would have that space.

 

[Capt]

22 minutes ago, Pete said:

So not as a Rangers core. Who cares? 

Stop moving the goal posts.  You asked.  As the Rangers core they have been dominated and can't produce against an AHL goalie and a non descriptive defensive group.  That doesn't matter?   

[Keirik]

There aren’t many scenarios to move on from Strome and get a 2c that isn’t on par contract wise/performance wise. At this point, I assume Strome takes a friendly deal. If he doesn’t? Trocheck? Gourde via trade?  Copp as a permanent? Larkin?  Horvat/Miller ?

 

or if you believe this is still a longer process, you look to see what it takes to get the Habs 1st. Alf as a French Canadian + ……

[Bugg]

6 hours ago, Keirik said:

There aren’t many scenarios to move on from Strome and get a 2c that isn’t on par contract wise/performance wise. At this point, I assume Strome takes a friendly deal. If he doesn’t? Trocheck? Gourde via trade?  Copp as a permanent? Larkin?  Horvat/Miller ?

 

or if you believe this is still a longer process, you look to see what it takes to get the Habs 1st. Alf as a French Canadian + ……

Suspect all this defense depth is going to have to be moved for an upgrade at C. How you do that with the cap limitations and Zib and Panarin's contracts....A MIRACLE HAPPENS? 

 

Along those lines; at a complete loss why playing Nemeth and Braun(to a lesser extent, he's been almost okay?) over Jones and/or Lundqvist. Really could either be as bad as Nemeth? But I am not the coach or GM.  And then you start to wonder if Miller isn't ultimately trade bait as well. 

 

Nemeth; is there an obscure NHL bylaw that NYR have to overpay an over the hill defenseman ridiculous money? 

[Phil]

10 hours ago, The Dude said:

 

You love Kadri like Hunt or something?

[Phil]

10 hours ago, Keirik said:

I disagree there.  He’s got fairly identical offensive stats but hits 3x more and is close to 55% from the dot. It’s an upgrade because he gives you things your missing while not dropping off offense 

 

I dunno, he strikes me as the type of guy who benefits tremendously playing in such a strict, potent system. He comes here and it's like Matt Cullen again. Just doesn't feel like the right fit.

[Phil]

11 hours ago, Dunny said:

No, we're definitely stuck pretending Panarin and Zibanejad are on par with actual superstars for the next decade, so buckle up. There's going to be a lot of great Novembers.

 

They are. In the regular season. From what I can see, the problem is that they're built to own the regular season, not the playoffs when pure individual drive, force, will, etc make all the difference.
 

I get they're not Crosby, but he's the perfect example of where sheer determination meets sheer talent. Emulate that. As best you can.
 

Zibanejad, specifically, looks fucking horrid. 6'2, 215 lb center with a cannon of a shot who plays like a 5'1, 180lb field mouse.