Brooks Rangers, Strome Talking Extension

[torontonyr]

1 hour ago, G1000 said:

 

If the Rangers can keep them both for under $11m, they should. The Rangers will have 11.7M to handle the offseason business, and will almost assuredly have to trade Nemeth to do anything of significance. Minor price to pay, really. I also think they push Reaves to retire and take a role on the team.

 

For example - this could work:

 

Leaves 13M to handle Chytil, Kakko, Blais, Laf, Miller, Jones next offseason 

 

 

13M isn't a ton.

 

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 hour ago, G1000 said:

 

If the Rangers can keep them both for under $11m, they should. The Rangers will have 11.7M to handle the offseason business, and will almost assuredly have to trade Nemeth to do anything of significance. Minor price to pay, really. I also think they push Reaves to retire and take a role on the team.

 

For example - this could work:

 

Leaves 13M to handle Chytil, Kakko, Blais, Laf, Miller, Jones next offseason 

 

If you're signing Strome and Copp you have to trade Chytil to gain some more cap flexibility.

Would be a shame not to sign Vatrano after how well he's played with Zibs and Kreider.

[Blue Heaven]

What about keeping Copp and Vatrano?  

Vatrano goes into 1RW, Copp at 2C, Blais 3RW

Maybe would leave some extra $$$. 

 

[Phil]

Just now, Blue Heaven said:

What about keeping Copp and Vatrano?  

Vatrano goes into 1RW, Copp at 2C, Blais 3RW

Maybe would leave some extra $$$. 

 

 

It's possible. But it requires walking away from Strome, and the issues compound a year later when Miller and others need new deals, too.

 

I think you can probably get Vatrano at $4x3 and Copp at $5x5.

[josh]

1 hour ago, G1000 said:

 

If the Rangers can keep them both for under $11m, they should. The Rangers will have 11.7M to handle the offseason business, and will almost assuredly have to trade Nemeth to do anything of significance. Minor price to pay, really. I also think they push Reaves to retire and take a role on the team.

 

For example - this could work:

 

Leaves 13M to handle Chytil, Kakko, Blais, Laf, Miller, Jones next offseason 

 

Still need another player. You’re below the roster limit 

[Blue Heaven]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It's possible. But it requires walking away from Strome, and the issues compound a year later when Miller and others need new deals, too.

 

I think you can probably get Vatrano at $4x3 and Copp at $5x5.

Thats going to happen no matter what whether they sign Strome or not, they have to decide if its worth it to sign him and pretty much let everyone else walk, or possible to sign Copp and maybe a Vatrano that may leave some $$$ on the table for the future.  Also, they're probably going to have to think hard whether Lindgren is expendable this offseason or next season to free up $$$ for Miller.  Same goes with Chytil to free up cap space then the Rangers will be even thinner down center.  Drury and Co. are really going to have to do some cap magic the next 2-3 years.  And even if they do trade a Chytil and/or Kravtsov its not like they can really get a player in return to fill a gaping hole b/c they are f'd with the cap down the line.  

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Blue Heaven said:

Thats going to happen no matter what whether they sign Strome or not, they have to decide if its worth it to sign him and pretty much let everyone else walk, or possible to sign Copp and maybe a Vatrano that may leave some $$$ on the table for the future.  Also, they're probably going to have to think hard whether Lindgren is expendable this offseason or next season to free up $$$ for Miller.  Same goes with Chytil to free up cap space then the Rangers will be even thinner down center.  Drury and Co. are really going to have to do some cap magic the next 2-3 years.  And even if they do trade a Chytil and/or Kravtsov its not like they can really get a player in return to fill a gaping hole b/c they are f'd with the cap down the line.  

 

Agreed, especially on Lindgren and Chytil. Maybe even Kakko (rather than pay him).

[LindG1000]

I don't think that's it's entirely fair to say that Chytil, Kakko, and/or Lindgren are casualties if only because there are so many obvious "move ups" on the cheap. By the end of next season, we're likely to be fucking around with Othmann coming to the big team, Cuylle coming to the big team, Berard leaving college, Trivigno coming up - we have ELCs ready to backfill., not to mention we still have this massive glut of defenders in the system.

 

The question is what the fuck are they backfilling and why?

 

The strategy for this offseason should be to stay as competitive as we appear to be and get to the next offseason with similar cap space. Laf and Miller needing new contracts is not yet a problem by any stretch, even if you need to consider Chytil, Kakko, and Blais at the same time. And if it becomes a problem that Miller, for example, needs to be paid fairly against the market, great. I want that problem - same as I want the problem of Kakko or Laf or Chytil putting us in a similar spot. 

 

They gotta earn it first.

[RangersIn7]

Let’s not do contract talks or speculation before we play postseason hockey with this group.

 

 

[Scott]

?? this particular thread is about extending Strome, not sure I understand especially on an off day.  While I would kill for a cup, I don't think  there's anything wrong with discussing the longer view here either.

[josh]

58 minutes ago, G1000 said:

I don't think that's it's entirely fair to say that Chytil, Kakko, and/or Lindgren are casualties if only because there are so many obvious "move ups" on the cheap. By the end of next season, we're likely to be fucking around with Othmann coming to the big team, Cuylle coming to the big team, Berard leaving college, Trivigno coming up - we have ELCs ready to backfill., not to mention we still have this massive glut of defenders in the system.

 

The question is what the fuck are they backfilling and why?

 

The strategy for this offseason should be to stay as competitive as we appear to be and get to the next offseason with similar cap space. Laf and Miller needing new contracts is not yet a problem by any stretch, even if you need to consider Chytil, Kakko, and Blais at the same time. And if it becomes a problem that Miller, for example, needs to be paid fairly against the market, great. I want that problem - same as I want the problem of Kakko or Laf or Chytil putting us in a similar spot. 

 

They gotta earn it first.

If you re-sign Copp AND Strome to contracts 4+ years, you might as well trade all of those young names. 
 

no sense putting Kakkos ceiling as a 3W with Goodrow as his center until he’s 30. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

Let’s just win the cup this year and then nobody will care who we re-sign next season.  

[Pete]

Copp is a luxury. Strome is a necessity. 

[Costa]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Copp is a luxury. Strome is a necessity. 

 DISAGREE. Copp plays a 200 ft. game. Strome is a one trick pony. Bad on D, takes foolish penalties. 

[Pete]

46 minutes ago, Costa said:

 DISAGREE. Copp plays a 200 ft. game. Strome is a one trick pony. Bad on D, takes foolish penalties. 

Great. You're wrong. 

[Keirik]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

Copp is a luxury. Strome is a necessity. 

I know you love the guy and I’m in on him too, but necessity is a stretch. He’s an. “In a perfect world no brainer “ but this is all dependent on his asking price. They just can’t simply reward him more than 5.5m or so unless it’s a shorter term deal. That’s always possible since I believe Strome himself mentioned he’s never signed a long term deal before. If he’s looking for 6m over 4 then it starts to get dicey. Just a product of numbers. I don’t really care about the Panarin effect because we pay Artemi a heck of a lot of money to have him produce regardless of his bud being the center. 
 

   Rangers have to look at this very carefully. We are talking about a 50-60 point player that has a symbiotic relationship. He simple cannot be paid as if his production isn’t dependable on Panarin. 

[Pete]

7 hours ago, Keirik said:

I know you love the guy and I’m in on him too, but necessity is a stretch. He’s an. “In a perfect world no brainer “ but this is all dependent on his asking price. They just can’t simply reward him more than 5.5m or so unless it’s a shorter term deal. That’s always possible since I believe Strome himself mentioned he’s never signed a long term deal before. If he’s looking for 6m over 4 then it starts to get dicey. Just a product of numbers. I don’t really care about the Panarin effect because we pay Artemi a heck of a lot of money to have him produce regardless of his bud being the center. 
 

   Rangers have to look at this very carefully. We are talking about a 50-60 point player that has a symbiotic relationship. He simple cannot be paid as if his production isn’t dependable on Panarin. 

His production isn't dependent on Panarin. He produced in a lower 6 role. He's done nothing but produce since coming here, all the while most fans were literally rooting for him to fail.

 

He actually earned his chance to center Panarin, and when he got it, he excelled. When Panarin missed time with those rumors from Russia, everyone decided it was Strome's chance to fall on his face. But he didn't. He centered Kreider to a 10 game point streak IIRC and if the stats aren't exact whatever, the point is he didn't fail even when people wanted him to. 

 

This guy's an actual Ranger success story and people are acting like we haven't seen Copp-like-objects come and have good results post deadline and then shit results the next season...you know when that happened recently? Ryan Spooner...who...we flipped into Ryan Strome because Spooner was actually trash. 

 

And of course he has to fit under the cap. So does anyone else. But if I have to choose between Copp and Strome I'm picking Strome because of his body of work for the Rangers. I don't get won over so easily by a stretch of good games from Copp, who frankly has as many holes in his game as Strome. 

[Valriera]

Copp and Vatrano were deadline rentals, no more. This team’s long term success depends on our 1OA and 2OA picks growing into the roles we needed to trade for to be filled by them. Played great since being here, doesn’t mean they deserve long term contracts on the team. Vatrano I could see signing a bridge-y deal but copp is going to do 5x5ish and that’s just not reality for us 

[Phil]

9 hours ago, Keirik said:

I know you love the guy and I’m in on him too, but necessity is a stretch. He’s an. “In a perfect world no brainer “ but this is all dependent on his asking price. They just can’t simply reward him more than 5.5m or so unless it’s a shorter term deal. That’s always possible since I believe Strome himself mentioned he’s never signed a long term deal before. If he’s looking for 6m over 4 then it starts to get dicey. Just a product of numbers. I don’t really care about the Panarin effect because we pay Artemi a heck of a lot of money to have him produce regardless of his bud being the center. 
 

   Rangers have to look at this very carefully. We are talking about a 50-60 point player that has a symbiotic relationship. He simple cannot be paid as if his production isn’t dependable on Panarin. 

 

Replace "necessity" with "priority," then.

[Phil]

I'd also caution everyone rushing to let Strome walk to remember what happened to Jagr when the Rangers did the same to Nylander, thinking the grass was greener. It wasn't. The trade tree there bore uncommon fruit (McDonagh for Gomez), but it was only made possible through a really awkward and less productive transition because of that decision.

 

tl;dr version: don't fuck with happy.

[Long live the King]

There's not way they resign Vatrano.  That defeats the purpose of trading Buch.  Likely one of Cuylle and Othmann make the team just because they are cheap.

 

CK - Zib - Kakko

Panarin - Strome or Copp - Blais

Laf - Chytil - Goodrow

Cuylle - Rooney - maybe Motte

 

As for D.  Gotta trade Nemeth.

 

Lindgren - Fox

Miller - Trouba

Jones/Robertson - Schneider

 

I think next year is Lindgren's last year here.  I think he'll get moved and that $3 mil goes to Miller.

 

Also Garand is not going to be the backup.  He needs to play to continue his development.  

[Keirik]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

His production isn't dependent on Panarin. He produced in a lower 6 role. He's done nothing but produce since coming here, all the while most fans were literally rooting for him to fail.

 

He actually earned his chance to center Panarin, and when he got it, he excelled. When Panarin missed time with those rumors from Russia, everyone decided it was Strome's chance to fall on his face. But he didn't. He centered Kreider to a 10 game point streak IIRC and if the stats aren't exact whatever, the point is he didn't fail even when people wanted him to. 

 

This guy's an actual Ranger success story and people are acting like we haven't seen Copp-like-objects come and have good results post deadline and then shit results the next season...you know when that happened recently? Ryan Spooner...who...we flipped into Ryan Strome because Spooner was actually trash. 

 

And of course he has to fit under the cap. So does anyone else. But if I have to choose between Copp and Strome I'm picking Strome because of his body of work for the Rangers. I don't get won over so easily by a stretch of good games from Copp, who frankly has as many holes in his game as Strome. 

His production sure is a product of Panarin.

 

His 4 years with the islanders he’s a .49 ppg player (one good year of .62).  His two years with Edm, he’s a .36 ppg player so that’s his low point in career. First year he joins the Rangers before Panarin arrives he is a .52ppg which lines him right up to who where he was as an Islander. Then we sign Artemi, who he pretty much played with from the jump. 
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    Now I understand the next obvious argument is that good chemistry is a great thing and it’s true. I’m just saying that if we commit to Strome, it better be a very friendly deal because Panarin turns 31 in October. If he starts to decline at some point like every other human does sans Kreider right now,  we can’t be on the hook for Strome as well if it’s a high cap hit. There are just too many other contracts that will need to be addressed in coming years as well. 

 

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

Replace "necessity" with "priority," then.

Oh I agree. It should be a priority especially to find out exactly what number he is looking for. If it starts with 6, a ,ore serious discussion needs to be had. 

[Pete]

38 minutes ago, Keirik said:

His production sure is a product of Panarin.

 

His 4 years with the islanders he’s a .49 ppg player (one good year of .62).  His two years with Edm, he’s a .36 ppg player so that’s his low point in career. First year he joins the Rangers before Panarin arrives he is a .52ppg which lines him right up to who where he was as an Islander. Then we sign Artemi, who he pretty much played with from the jump. 
.84

.88

.72

  

    Now I understand the next obvious argument is that good chemistry is a great thing and it’s true. I’m just saying that if we commit to Strome, it better be a very friendly deal because Panarin turns 31 in October. If he starts to decline at some point like every other human does sans Kreider right now,  we can’t be on the hook for Strome as well if it’s a high cap hit. There are just too many other contracts that will need to be addressed in coming years as well. 

 

Strome found his game with Panarin and was still productive without him. 

 

What you're saying about the cap hit is true of any contract, of course. But Strome has much more incentive to take a team friendly deal. 

[Costa]

16 hours ago, Pete said:

Great. You're wrong. 

Strome will want 6.5 per MINIMUM to stay here. Copp 6.5 MAXIMUM. If there's a way to resign Copp AND Vatrano...rather have those 2 than just Strome.