Trading Panarin?

[Sod16]

 Panarin is a great player, but I will make one observation.  During his Hart nominee year, when he got the puck in the defensive zone, I would breath a sigh of relief.  I don't feel that way now.

[cupalife]

1 hour ago, rmc51 said:

I never said it was an example of Panarin playing a 200 foot game, but it definitely isn’t an example of him being lazy as you have insinuated. I didn’t go looking to find fault in “anyone but Panarin” when I pulled up the goal video. I was honestly taking your word for it that he messed up and I wanted to see how bad it was, as I had missed most of the 2nd period. Turned out I shouldn’t be taking your word for it. This one reeks of confirmation bias.

I didn't say he messed up, I said he didn't bother to get back on defense.   He never appears on camera when the puck enters the Rangers zone. You see him as the puck enters the net.  He was not there to mess up, he didn't bother.  

 

The video speaks for itself

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/raymond-scores-with-one-timer/t-335469494/c-13676599

 

[Pete]

Yes, Panarin should have anticipated Shesterkin not stopping the puck for Miller, then Miller throwing it up the boards directly to Larkin, and Kravtsov flat out leaving Raymond because HE anticipated Trocheck getting a puck.

 

$11.5M and this guy can't even see the future? What a waste of cap. 

 

And now we're also saying it's Panarin's fault because he should know he's on the ice with crappy defensive players so he should help more? You really can't make this up. 

 

And shame on us for expecting production from our young draft picks!

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

7 hours ago, cupalife said:

I didn't say he messed up, I said he didn't bother to get back on defense.   He never appears on camera when the puck enters the Rangers zone. You see him as the puck enters the net.  He was not there to mess up, he didn't bother.  

 

The video speaks for itself

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/raymond-scores-with-one-timer/t-335469494/c-13676599

 

Yes, he should have been the 5th guy deep in the zone near the hashes or lower in case 4 Rangers couldn’t defend 3 forwards, 2 of whom were on the boards. Honestly shame on Panarin for not covering for Shesterkin in net too. Paid $11.5M and he can’t be bothered to get in the crease and make a save.

[BrooksBurner]

8 hours ago, Sod16 said:

 Panarin is a great player, but I will make one observation.  During his Hart nominee year, when he got the puck in the defensive zone, I would breath a sigh of relief.  I don't feel that way now.

I actually have no problems trusting him there. Where I trust him a little bit less after the playoffs is with the puck on his stick headed into the OZ on an even numbers rush. In the back of my head I’m hoping there isn’t a forced cross ice pass into traffic that leads to a turnover with numbers going the other way.

[Ozzy]

I absolutely LOVE this thread!  LOL

[Pete]

24 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I absolutely LOVE this thread!  LOL

[cupalife]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

Yes, Panarin should have anticipated Shesterkin not stopping the puck for Miller, then Miller throwing it up the boards directly to Larkin, and Kravtsov flat out leaving Raymond because HE anticipated Trocheck getting a puck.

 

$11.5M and this guy can't even see the future? What a waste of cap. 

 

And now we're also saying it's Panarin's fault because he should know he's on the ice with crappy defensive players so he should help more? You really can't make this up. 

 

And shame on us for expecting production from our young draft picks!

 

 

 

 

Yeah you complain about the "structure" they play but have zero issue with him on that play.  Makes sense

[Pete]

1 minute ago, cupalife said:

Yeah you complain about the "structure" they play but have zero issue with him on that play.  Makes sense

Well, since you brought it up, that play does a great job illustrating my point. 

 

There is no structure there. Trocheck not where Miller is expecting him to be, Kravtsov leaving his man because the assumed Trocheck had him. That man eventually scored. A complete breakdown after an unforced turnover from Key. 

 

Even if you can make an argument that Panarin should have been in the zone, how does that change that as a LW, he wouldn't have even been involved? 

 

The Rangers turned the puck over inside the hashmarks. It was a 3 on 3 until Kravtsov came over (leaving his man) to take Larkin who was between Miller and Trocheck. So 4 on 3 Rangers means Panarin was the lone Ranger making sure the Detroit defenseman didn't join the play late as a trailer. 

 

There's nuances to all of this that go beyond "well he's not in the frame so he's not where he should be". 

 

And frankly his defensive ability has nothing to do with anything, he's getting paid to put points on the board which he's doing. The fact that he's quite defensively responsible is an added bonus.

 

I remember complaining about Jagr being bad defensively, and lazy, which was actually true... And then I remembered how hard it was for them to score goals once he left. 

 

When guys are putting up 100 plus points in this league they get a little more latitude. 

[cupalife]

A huge part of structure is having puck support.  It's much easier to breakout of your zone when you have options to pass to that aren't a zone away from you. 

 

Anyway agree to disagree here.  If you don't have an issue with Panarin not coming back than ok, why bother arguing about it. 

[cupalife]

Catching up on the game and just noticed somebody flew the zone on the second goal against.  

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, cupalife said:

Catching up on the game and just noticed somebody flew the zone on the second goal against.  

 

Trocheck got the puck without a Predator within 10 feet of him. Panarin turned up ice expecting the play to move out. He even presented himself as an outlet target on the left side of the ice. Trocheck with time and space turned the puck over with a weak flip off the glass up the boards. This is now the second time you're blaming Panarin for a Rangers player showing complete ineptitude with the puck.

[cupalife]

23 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Trocheck got the puck without a Predator within 10 feet of him. Panarin turned up ice expecting the play to move out. He even presented himself as an outlet target on the left side of the ice. Trocheck with time and space turned the puck over with a weak flip off the glass up the boards. This is now the second time you're blaming Panarin for a Rangers player showing complete ineptitude with the puck.

Didn't blame him.  You are putting words in my mouth.  I just pointed out that he flew the zone, which he did.  He has a habit of doing so.  

[Pete]

5 hours ago, cupalife said:

A huge part of structure is having puck support.  It's much easier to breakout of your zone when you have options to pass to that aren't a zone away from you. 

Correct. The Rangers had a 4 on 3 advantage in their zone. Key made a bad pass to Trocheck. That giveaway led directly to the goal and the play had nothing at all to do with Panarin, yet you're somehow using it as an example of him being lazy 2hen he was exactly where he should have been... Making sure no defenseman came into the play late. 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

On 11/12/2022 at 5:51 AM, Pete said:

Yes, Panarin should have anticipated Shesterkin not stopping the puck for Miller, then Miller throwing it up the boards directly to Larkin, and Kravtsov flat out leaving Raymond because HE anticipated Trocheck getting a puck.

 

$11.5M and this guy can't even see the future? What a waste of cap. 

 

And now we're also saying it's Panarin's fault because he should know he's on the ice with crappy defensive players so he should help more? You really can't make this up. 

 

And shame on us for expecting production from our young draft picks!

 

 

 

 

If only those 2 players didn’t have an 11M player taking all their ice time.

 

oh and Panarin is soft.

 

have a nice day 

[cupalife]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Correct. The Rangers had a 4 on 3 advantage in their zone. Key made a bad pass to Trocheck. That giveaway led directly to the goal and the play had nothing at all to do with Panarin, yet you're somehow using it as an example of him being lazy 2hen he was exactly where he should have been... Making sure no defenseman came into the play late. 

Panarin was making sure no defenseman would join the play late. So by him hanging the opposing defenseman has to pay attention to him.  Got it.  This is funny shit.  

[Pete]

53 minutes ago, cupalife said:

Panarin was making sure no defenseman would join the play late. So by him hanging the opposing defenseman has to pay attention to him.  Got it.  This is funny shit.  

Hanging? He's a screen shot of the moment before Raymond took the shot., with Panarin literally standing in front of on defenseman and looking directly at the other one to mark him.

 

 

I'd pay $11M for a player who can simultaneously hang, and yet be in his own zone with two opposing players behind him. It's an impressive skill.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Vodka Drunkenski said:

If only those 2 players didn’t have an 11M player taking all their ice time.

 

oh and Panarin is soft.

 

have a nice day 

If only they played on a team that went to the ECF...Or made the playoffs, period.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Pete

[Vodka Drunkenski]

38 minutes ago, Pete said:

If only they played on a team that went to the ECF...Or made the playoffs, period.

You’re right, good thing our young goalie carried us to the playoffs and ECF

[Pete]

Just now, Vodka Drunkenski said:

You’re right, good thing our young goalie carried us to the playoffs and ECF

You don't even have a point to make so I'll just leave you here. 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

You don't even have a point to make so I'll just leave you here. 

You try to change the game and I have no point to make?  Got it 

[BrooksBurner]

9 hours ago, cupalife said:

Didn't blame him.  You are putting words in my mouth.  I just pointed out that he flew the zone, which he did.  He has a habit of doing so. 

Then what’s your point?

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

54 minutes ago, Pete said:

Hanging? He's a screen shot of the moment before Raymond took the shot., with Panarin literally standing in front of on defenseman and looking directly at the other one to mark him.

 

 

I'd pay $11M for a player who can simultaneously hang, and yet be in his own zone with two opposing players behind him. It's an impressive skill.

This should be conclusive evidence. Panarin is the only Ranger even close to a Detroit player lol

[Br4d]

How is Panarin -9 with 21 points in 16 games?

 

Something is totally not clicking here.

 

 

[cupalife]

5 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

This should be conclusive evidence. Panarin is the only Ranger even close to a Detroit player lol

A still shot of hockey game proves your point?  Is this before he circles in and out of the zone.  Watch the video.  He only entered the zone after he realized they were in trouble.