cupalife Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Cash or Czech said: Artemi Panarin has a No Movement Clause and makes $11.5M a year. Other NHL teams that can afford his cap hit: Anaheim Ducks, Buffalo Sabres, Arizona Coyotes Other NHL teams with more than $4mil of cap space so we don't have to take crap contracts back: Detroit Red Wings, Chicago Blackhawks We aren't getting shit for him unless we take mediocre contracts back, which you will then proceed to bitch about. The examples where the team getting a package for an individual player makes out better is...maybe Ottawa trading Karlsson, but Ottawa still sucks even with all of these new good players. Not to mention, he's not the problem. The lack of a system is the problem. Without a player like Panarin, we don't sniff the playoffs. Even now we're in a fight for a wildcard spot. And the cap is going up. Plus he's not preventing us from signing anyone right now, or trading for anyone. We have deadline day cap space. This argument is so fucking stupid. What is fucking stupid is complaining that the team doesn't defend, plays like pussies, can't score 5 on 5 and on and on and expect something different the you build you team around guys who are the definition of the word pussy. What is fucking stupid is complaining about kids on elcs or 4th liners off the scrap heap because we pay guys $11.5m to be the leaders and have no money to pay for secondary scoring. What is fucking stupid is hearing people say that only Trouba is carrying a bad contract on this team. How do people justify a players worth? This team sucks. What is fucking stupid is thinking you are changing anything by firing the coach when you've had a decade and plenty of coaches that had "no system." At some point are the players ever responsible? What is fucking stupid is that this team is no tougher now than when Tom Wilson rag dolled Panarin. It was a problem then and is the same today. You need men in your top 6 too. Expecting a 4th line guy playing under 10 minutes a night to establish your identity is the FUCKING dumbest shit yet. So yes the Rangers have to free up cap space so they can build a team not a fucking broadway show. Making the playoffs is a low bar and one that is probably to high this year. But we have Panarin so making the playoffs should be a lock. Fact is there is easily 30 players and probably about 50 you couldn't get straight up for Panarin right now. Yet Trouba is the only overpaid guy. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Guys, argue the point, not the person. It’s really that simple. We are all Rangers fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 8 hours ago, CCCP said: You really think Panarin is going to buy into any kind of a defensive system, play any kind of a defensive game? Im not so sure I honestly think if we have 11 forwards playing a specific system plus Panarin playing half of it, our forward group would be way better off in terms of defensive ability and as of now offensive finishing. Even if we "inhibited" his playstyle he'd still put up 90 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, cupalife said: What is fucking stupid is complaining that the team doesn't defend, plays like pussies, can't score 5 on 5 and on and on and expect something different the you build you team around guys who are the definition of the word pussy. What is fucking stupid is complaining about kids on elcs or 4th liners off the scrap heap because we pay guys $11.5m to be the leaders and have no money to pay for secondary scoring. What is fucking stupid is hearing people say that only Trouba is carrying a bad contract on this team. How do people justify a players worth? This team sucks. What is fucking stupid is thinking you are changing anything by firing the coach when you've had a decade and plenty of coaches that had "no system." At some point are the players ever responsible? What is fucking stupid is that this team is no tougher now than when Tom Wilson rag dolled Panarin. It was a problem then and is the same today. You need men in your top 6 too. Expecting a 4th line guy playing under 10 minutes a night to establish your identity is the FUCKING dumbest shit yet. So yes the Rangers have to free up cap space so they can build a team not a fucking broadway show. Making the playoffs is a low bar and one that is probably to high this year. But we have Panarin so making the playoffs should be a lock. Fact is there is easily 30 players and probably about 50 you couldn't get straight up for Panarin right now. Yet Trouba is the only overpaid guy. Got it. You keep complaining how Panarin is overpaid yet he isn't inhibiting our ability to go out and get anybody. We have enough cap space for Patrick Kane at the trade deadline. We should have enough to bridge Lafreniere, Miller, and get Chytil under contract. Then the cap goes up significantly. Panarin makes $11.5mil a year and has put up 273 points in 208 NHL games as a Ranger. From 2019-2020 through 2021-22, Panarin is tied for 4th in points/games played, only tied with or behind McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, and Kucherov. That's ahead of Matthews, Huberdeau, Marner, Marchand, Kane, Rantanen, Stamkos, Crosby, Kaprizov, Pastrnak, Barkov, Malkin, and basically every other name on that list that you provided. I haven't bitched about the kids once. I've been one of the most pro-kids people here. Trouba is by far the worst contract on this team. He's a $5-$6mil defender. It sucks for one more season, and then the cap goes up and he's two years away from UFA anyway. If you think that firing the coach does nothing but trading Panarin will, well, that's your opinion. But it's so misguided and misinformed to think that bringing in more Gallant guys, which is what would probably happen, will fix this. You talk about beating up Tom Wilson. Do you also yell "HIT THE GUY?!" on two on ones and other random times? Do you relish the Tortorella days when our top line was Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan? Edited November 28, 2022 by Cash or Czech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 19 pages about trading one of the two consistent point getters on this team to make us better? Not going to happen nor should it. As pointed out, he is performing on par with his contract. There are no valid points for trading him. He was brought in to get points and he is doing just that. Trading Zib or Panarin is a joke. Anyone else; bring your best offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 39 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said: You keep complaining how Panarin is overpaid yet he isn't inhibiting our ability to go out and get anybody. We have enough cap space for Patrick Kane at the trade deadline. We should have enough to bridge Lafreniere, Miller, and get Chytil under contract. Then the cap goes up significantly. Panarin makes $11.5mil a year and has put up 273 points in 208 NHL games as a Ranger. From 2019-2020 through 2021-22, Panarin is tied for 4th in points/games played, only tied with or behind McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, and Kucherov. That's ahead of Matthews, Huberdeau, Marner, Marchand, Kane, Rantanen, Stamkos, Crosby, Kaprizov, Pastrnak, Barkov, Malkin, and basically every other name on that list that you provided. I haven't bitched about the kids once. I've been one of the most pro-kids people here. Trouba is by far the worst contract on this team. He's a $5-$6mil defender. It sucks for one more season, and then the cap goes up and he's two years away from UFA anyway. If you think that firing the coach does nothing but trading Panarin will, well, that's your opinion. But it's so misguided and misinformed to think that bringing in more Gallant guys, which is what would probably happen, will fix this. You talk about beating up Tom Wilson. Do you also yell "HIT THE GUY?!" on two on ones and other random times? Do you relish the Tortorella days when our top line was Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan? At this point we're all just repeating ourselves with the statistics and the logic, and it's not even responded to with anything other than unsubstantiated remarks about who's "overpaid" and who's "better" without an ounce of statistical evidence backing any of it up. It's best just not to engage with folks using a slump as a bully pulpit. It's a dishonest actor. 17 minutes ago, jsm7302 said: 19 pages about trading one of the two consistent point getters on this team to make us better? Not going to happen nor should it. As pointed out, he is performing on par with his contract. There are no valid points for trading him. He was brought in to get points and he is doing just that. Trading Zib or Panarin is a joke. Anyone else; bring your best offers. I'd add Fox and Shesty to that list. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goondman Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 As GG said, he's the leader. I'd start with his removal first. This isn't a player problem, it's a playerS problem. Which in my estimation means it's a coaching problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted November 28, 2022 Author Share Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Pete said: At this point we're all just repeating ourselves with the statistics and the logic, and it's not even responded to with anything other than unsubstantiated remarks about who's "overpaid" and who's "better" without an ounce of statistical evidence backing any of it up. It's best just not to engage with folks using a slump as a bully pulpit. It's a dishonest actor. I'd add Fox and Shesty to that list. I don’t need stats to tell me they could do without him. And aren’t you a big believer on “eye test” and not just stats or am I confusing you with someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vodka Drunkenski said: I don’t need stats to tell me they could do without him. Like I said, just an arbitrary statement. Here, I'll go next: They'd be even worse without him, and certainly unwatchable. Quote And aren’t you a big believer on “eye test” and not just stats or am I confusing you with someone else? We shouldn't use either in a vacuum. Edited November 28, 2022 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted November 28, 2022 Author Share Posted November 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Pete said: Like I said, just an arbitrary statement. Here, I'll go next: They'd be even worse without him, and certainly unwatchable. We shouldn't use either in a vacuum. My turn: they would be worse without him, if that was all dead cap space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupalife Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) I do pine for the days of Tortarella. Nobody is asking for more Gallant guys. The point is this roster is not on it's first coach while playing with no passion, compete, structure, or just a general belligerence. It's been missing under AV, Quinn, and now Gallant. Bringing another coach without changing the core will give you the same. As far as using a slump as a bully pulpit. I've been consistent here about him. To say I'm being dishonest is a bullshit comment. I've had this same opinion without the slump. He's been a different player since Tom Wilson. The playoffs were supposed to be a blip according to most here. People keep bringing up 2-3 years ago as if it matters now. That is not the same player who's playing today. Anyone who argues differently is being dishonest. The Rangers problems are directly associated with Panarin. He's getting paid to produce and he's not. Same with Zib who makes $3M less and at least plays 200 feet. 5 on 5 both are awful for what is expected of them. You can't ask the bottom 6 to pick up the slack when you pay these guys to carry the load. To say Panarin isn't stopping the Rangers from getting other players is as uninformed as it comes. The Rangers would have $11.5M spent on other guys in their lineup. Yes they would be missing their power play specialist. Yet everyone here hates the power play and how predictable it's become. Part of that is because Panarin refuses to shoot the fucking puck ever. He's not the only one but at $11.5M he's got to be better. For the record I want zero part of Kane, it's just more of the same. Talented for sure but the Rangers need guys who want to engage in the fight. They need guys who will play in the trenches. Not more perimeter guys I don't give a shit who they are. Finally the point of the list of players was not to compare stats. It was a simple list of guys teams would not trade straight up for Panarin. Nobody is saying they would be better off without Panarin without players replacing him. Of course the point would be to use that $11.5M to improve in areas they are lacking. They are not lacking in soft offense first, fly the zone forwards. Yes Panarin is the best of that bunch but he's also taking up a much larger share of the cap. The eye test has shown Panarin unwilling to get to the middle of the ice. The eye test shows a player constantly flying the zone and taking extra long lazy shifts. The stats are catching up with the eye test. Let him go on a run. It won't be due to 5 on 5 play. Edited November 28, 2022 by cupalife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupalife Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 It's like arguing for building around Bernie Nichols. Well he put 's up first line numbers. Yeah, he's great until you get Messier and you realize that one can win you a cup and the other can fill the back of a hockey card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) Like I keep saying, there's a difference between a bad hockey player and a great player playing bad hockey. One of those is permanent and the other is temporary. This is the only slump he's had since coming here. Comes at a bad time, but doesn't change how good he's been since he was signed. Edited November 28, 2022 by Pete 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Panarin is in a rut, like most of the team. Everything has been to the outside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 Useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 second difference and I might have posted in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Get Trocheck off his line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, Pete said: Get Trocheck off his line. Should be playing with the teams #2 center anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, siddious said: Should be playing with the teams #2 center anyway. They only have 2 centers in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 35 minutes ago, josh said: They only have 2 centers in the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 9 hours ago, josh said: They only have 2 centers in the team. I’m not sure if you’re trying to insult Chytil or trochek here but Panarin should be playing with chytil. Trochek should anchor a strong 3rd line. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Bump. He's losing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 On 11/28/2022 at 1:54 PM, RichieNextel305 said: Panarin is in a rut, like most of the team. Everything has been to the outside. That rut feels like a deep cavern..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 No. It's not him. It's the coach. There are 2 players out of 20+ who are firing on all cylinders most of the year... Chytil and Fox. Every other player has had fits and starts.That's a direct reflection of the coach. And even now, Panarin is still a P/G player. I don't do anything to this roster until GG is gone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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