Albatrosss Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 He’s european sonhe can have a beer. And he looks so much like a bust from where im sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 But he's supposed to be in the NHL now. Not the AHL. Howden getting hurt and Lias not getting the instant call up is alarming. There's a spot for him. They just don't want to give it to him. I fully expected this kid to push Hayes out the door, or at least help the team decide to move him sooner. Dude can't even get a role over Nieves (whom I like) or Strome. It's the perfect time to insert him. The selling point on drafting him was that he could walk onto an NHL team and contribute.. He hasn't done that. This is year two after being drafted.. Guess the selling point is untrue. I'm down for trading him or handing him a third line role with the goal being to slide him into a second line role as soon as they deal Hayes. Let him play and give him some damn line mates. If they don't want to do that. Add him to a package to some sucker ala DeAngelo to the Rangers. I disagree to an extent on this take. The "NHL ready" thing is a bit of a buzzword, and I suppose it depends on your definition of what that actually means. But there is no doubt in my mind that Andersson could have played on the 4th line this year and he would have been fine. Certainly no worse than anyone else that has been centering that line. I mean, you can argue that they overcooked the NHL ready bit at the time of drafting him and I would argue that it makes little sense to spout shit like that as all you really get out of it is adding pressure on both the kid and the organization to have him deliver straight off the bat. In any case, in camp, a decision was made that he would be better off playing as a 1st line C in Hartford to work on his offensive game and skating. In my mind that doesn't mean he wasn't ready for a role on the team, it was a move made with his development in mind. Imo that was an excellent decision that took a bit of balls to make. I think the bad decision was getting into the next man up line of thinking when Buch (I think) got injured. At the time Andersson was clocking 20 mins a night, playing at a ppg clip and was doing well. There was absolutely no need to not stay the course with him, and calling him up to play 8 minutes a night, sometimes as a winger, on a shitty line was just stupid. I don't think him not getting the call up after Howden went down is alarming at all. I choose to believe they actually learnt from the last time and have decided to stay the course at this point. I do agree with the last bit. If the guys we expect to be traded are moved on he should be called up after the deadline. And at that point they should absolutely give him the chance to play as the 3rd line C. I would also add that guys like him, whose game is based on a solid 200 ft game, hockey iq and other intangibles usually take longer to come into their own at the NHL level than skill based players. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. I'm obviously not ecstatic with the pick, but it is what it is. A final point, the guys on the BSB podcast made a good point in relation to this. Hopefully the Rangers have learnt a lesson over the last two drafts. And that is that when they swing for the fences in the 1st round based on skill and high upside (Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller) they've made what at this point look like homerun picks. With the "safer" picks like Andersson, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Sure, he could develop like Couturier. Or like Malhotra. It's early. But so it's not looking good. Of course there are people who think we should have McIlrath playing on our team right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 But he's supposed to be in the NHL now. Not the AHL. This is never true for a player who is 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I disagree to an extent on this take. The "NHL ready" thing is a bit of a buzzword, and I suppose it depends on your definition of what that actually means. But there is no doubt in my mind that Andersson could have played on the 4th line this year and he would have been fine. Certainly no worse than anyone else that has been centering that line. I mean, you can argue that they overcooked the NHL ready bit at the time of drafting him and I would argue that it makes little sense to spout shit like that as all you really get out of it is adding pressure on both the kid and the organization to have him deliver straight off the bat. In any case, in camp, a decision was made that he would be better off playing as a 1st line C in Hartford to work on his offensive game and skating. In my mind that doesn't mean he wasn't ready for a role on the team, it was a move made with his development in mind. Imo that was an excellent decision that took a bit of balls to make. I think the bad decision was getting into the next man up line of thinking when Buch (I think) got injured. At the time Andersson was clocking 20 mins a night, playing at a ppg clip and was doing well. There was absolutely no need to not stay the course with him, and calling him up to play 8 minutes a night, sometimes as a winger, on a shitty line was just stupid. I don't think him not getting the call up after Howden went down is alarming at all. I choose to believe they actually learnt from the last time and have decided to stay the course at this point. I do agree with the last bit. If the guys we expect to be traded are moved on he should be called up after the deadline. And at that point they should absolutely give him the chance to play as the 3rd line C. I would also add that guys like him, whose game is based on a solid 200 ft game, hockey iq and other intangibles usually take longer to come into their own at the NHL level than skill based players. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. I'm obviously not ecstatic with the pick, but it is what it is. A final point, the guys on the BSB podcast made a good point in relation to this. Hopefully the Rangers have learnt a lesson over the last two drafts. And that is that when they swing for the fences in the 1st round based on skill and high upside (Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller) they've made what at this point look like homerun picks. With the "safer" picks like Andersson, not so much. agreed completely. i'm thinking he getting top minutes in the A is where he needs to be right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 This is never true for a player who is 20.In today's NHL, sure it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 In today's NHL, sure it is. Not true. Those players are still the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Anderson’s draft year only 6 or 7 of the first round picks have made the nhl as of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Not true. Those players are still the exception.Not anymore, but it really doesn't matter. I was responding to someone who said it's never true. So that's wrong, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Heaven Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 https://theathletic.com/811876/2019/02/11/lebrun-the-buyers-sellers-and-tbd-teams-ahead-of-the-trade-deadline/ Via Lebrun New York Rangers: Step right up, the Rangers knew from Day 1 in October this was their trade deadline destiny, fulfilling a plan that started a year ago with a very public rebuild plan. The pending UFAs for sale include Kevin Hayes and Mats Zuccarello as the more promising items. Hayes would be a beast of an add for a contender looking for size and enough skill to play in a top-six role. Hard-hitting blueliner Adam McQuaid is also a pending UFA and will likely be moved. After that, the Rangers are listening on signed players, a guy like Vladislav Namestnikov, 26, as an example. He’s signed for another year at $4 million. He’s yours for the right price. Having the necessary cap room for July 1 and a possible run at the likes of Panarin and/or Erik Karlsson (unless he stays in San Jose) are possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Yeah, I doubt the latter, but I suppose he couched that properly with "possibilities." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 A year ago, the Predators ruled 2017 first-round winger Eeli Tolvanen off-limits in trade talks following the teenaged Finn’s breakout Olympics. They had seemed willing to consider the possibility of sending Tolvanen to the Rangers in a rental deal for Rick Nash, but placed the winger under quarantine following the Pyeongchang Games. Now, though, we are told Tolvanen is being used as bait while the Predators, who have already obtained bottom-sixers Brian Boyle and Cody McLeod, hunt big game of the Artemi Panarin-Mark Stone variety. Tolvanen for Mats Zuccarello? Not likely. https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/caps-and-restrictions-are-not-needed-for-every-little-loophole/ -- Interesting, isn't it? Just last week there were some here decrying the idea of the Rangers' shopping Andersson as "giving up on him," yet here are the Predators, with a more productive prospect, who has also failed to impress since being selected in the same draft, doing exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Those are 100% different trading scenarios. Re-building team giving up on a pick vs. Contending team willing to part with top prospect to win now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/caps-and-restrictions-are-not-needed-for-every-little-loophole/ -- Interesting, isn't it? Just last week there were some here decrying the idea of the Rangers' shopping Andersson as "giving up on him," yet here are the Predators, with a more productive prospect, who has also failed to impress since being selected in the same draft, doing exactly that. I'm not sure it's the same. The Preds going all in for a playoff run and trading one of their top prospects is more akin to the Rangers trading Doug Weight in 93 for Tikannen and Amonte in 94 for Noonan and Matteau. The Rangers trading Andersson at this point, with the Rangers being a re-building team, would send different signals than Tolvenan getting traded from a contending team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I know the context isn't the same, but the principle is. The Rangers don't need to hold onto guys they draft longer just because they have a longer runway. If they feel Andersson's progress has stalled, they're entirely in the right to get out ahead of things by flipping him, perhaps for a prospect in a similar position elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 The principle In Tolvanen being possibly available though is not “getting ahead” of anything. It’s about using their best non roster chip to go all in on trying to win now. Kind of like how the preds themselves acquired forsberg. The caps were going for the cup not giving up on forsberg who at the time was as blue chip as they got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 The reason the Preds are using their best non-roster chip is, at least in part, because his progress has stalled. If he was leading the AHL in scoring right now, he's already on their roster, and certainly isn't in trade talks. In fact, if his progress hadn't stalled, are they even shopping for a top-six forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Ok so if his development is stalled to the point they are giving up on him then why are other teams trading much of anything to get him? He’s playing in the ahl, played in the world juniors. Every nhl team scouts the shit out of that league and that tournament. So does a Tolvanen highlighted package net them a panarin or stone or Duchene? I don’t think the preds are making him available to acquire Zuccarello. I guess we’ll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/caps-and-restrictions-are-not-needed-for-every-little-loophole/ -- Interesting, isn't it? Just last week there were some here decrying the idea of the Rangers' shopping Andersson as "giving up on him," yet here are the Predators, with a more productive prospect, who has also failed to impress since being selected in the same draft, doing exactly that. I’m not sure if you’re referring to me, but what I said was that I(me, Gravesy) don’t think they should give up on him just yet. I wasn’t decrying anything it’s just an opinion. As others have said, it’s also a very different scenario. For the Predators he is an expendable asset as they try to win now. Imo the Rangers are in no need to sell low on Andersson at this point. Of course, if they are all in agreement Andersson won’t make it here they might as well test the market, but I don’t get the impression that’s the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Ok so if his development is stalled to the point they are giving up on him then why are other teams trading much of anything to get him? He?s playing in the ahl, played in the world juniors. Every nhl team scouts the shit out of that league and that tournament. So does a Tolvanen highlighted package net them a panarin or stone or Duchene? I don?t think the preds are making him available to acquire Zuccarello. I guess we?ll see. Change of scenery. A belief in the ability of your coaching staff and your FO to get more out of him. A belief that the player will benefit more from playing with your talents rather than those of his current team. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I’m not sure if you’re referring to me, but what I said was that I(me, Gravesy) don’t think they should give up on him just yet. I wasn’t decrying anything it’s just an opinion. As others have said, it’s also a very different scenario. For the Predators he is an expendable asset as they try to win now. Imo the Rangers are in no need to sell low on Andersson at this point. Of course, if they are all in agreement Andersson won’t make it here they might as well test the market, but I don’t get the impression that’s the case. I couldn't actually remember who said it, sorry. Regardless, we don't really agree. I have no issue with a team, even a rebuilding one, getting out in front of the market on players they lose faith in. If they're right, their doing so actaully benefits the rebuild, where holding onto a player for too long can end up hurting it. I don't think we're there just yet with Andersson, but talk to me again at this point next season and depending on how pedestrian his numbers look (again), we could be singing a different tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 The premise that the preds are giving up on him is based on nothing. Who said they are giving up on him? Being willing to trade him does not mean they are giving up on him. They are one more year into their window and their position on him and fabbro can change due to the fact they may feel the need to go for it. Also last season saw them trade high level young assets in the turris deal maybe souring their appetite to include more high level guys last year. Point is we don’t know why they have now considered moving Tolvanen. Speculating that they are giving up on him Just like the rangers maybe with Anderson is just that with no inside knowledge to prove anything. Also the talk of trading Anderson and “giving up” on him was fan speak as well. There is nothing from the rangers that speaks to them felling that way either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 And by no means am I saying you are wrong about Anderson. All I’m saying is that the feelings of the fans is far different from the people making decisions. Add in that those making decisions have skin in the game in their prior choices, they are more reluctant from moving on because they are then admitting they were wrong. As a fan it’s easy to be impatient and in some cases it’s justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I was never referencing insider reports. It was Gravesy who brought that language up a few days ago. I was responding to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 This is how I am picturing Phil in this thread/topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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