The Struggle Continues with Kaapo Kakko

[Drew a Penalty]

53 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

You're asking for Jesper Fast, who never should have been left to walk in the first place. @Drew a Penalty

 

Nah bro. Don't get me started. A dumb move with numerous compounding consequences.

[The Dude]

50 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah… he’d fit.

 

Or Buch too.

 

 

But let’s forget that cause it’s not attainable.

 

Blake Coleman?

If Carolina falls apart this year (who would have thought they'd be 7-5) maybe Fast DOES become attainable.  

 

I was never as into the player as much everyone else though. Id probably pass on such an opportunity. 

[Keirik]

30 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

He’ll never be Jesper Fast though. Fast was quick on the forecheck (Quickie!) and a heart on his chest player.  Kakko is neither of these things. He’s an effective forechecker in a different way (more like effective cycler), but he’s not typically going to be the first man in nor does he throw the body around (Fun fact: Fast had more hits last season than Kakko has in his career). I think this is why Kakko meshed well with Chytil. Chytil gets in quickly on the forecheck.

Yeah, this might be the one medical condition Kaapo doesn't have.

[Ozzy]

15 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

Honest question at what point do we drop the holding out hope or worse assuming there's upside potential and accept he is what he is, what he's shown to be to date 250 games in. Yes he will remain cheap because he completely continues to underdeliver on expectations. He be defensively responsible. 

 

I think he'll get moved rather than being a guy who sticks around in that kinda of roll, just my two cents. 

 

You give up on him if/when he prices out and becomes cost ineffective.  Basically as long as his cap hit stays around $4 million or less, he's fine.  Over that is "Sayonara"...except in Finnish!

[RangersIn7]

There are plenty of possibilities. 
 

Especially as the season goes on and you’re willing to bring in a guy.

 

11 games in.

 

Lets not pull the fire alarm

Edited November 6, 2023 by RangersIn7

[Scott]

5 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

You give up on him if/when he prices out and becomes cost ineffective.  Basically as long as his cap hit stays around $4 million or less, he's fine.  Over that is "Sayonara"...except in Finnish!

Cap hit certainly a major consideration. But that doesn't answer the when do we stop holding out hope and accept he is what he is? I think if there's a team out there who is interested while he maybe headed down a path of a guy who may fit into the needs/wants a fresh start. I don't think five years in he's going to happily settle into being a bottom six possession with very limited results guy. He maybe a chip with some value to someone that gets cashed in later on this season if he continues to tread water. My two cents. 

[BrooksBurner]

16 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Yeah, this might be the one medical condition Kaapo doesn't have.

 

Oops 

[Jdog99]

3 hours ago, jsrangers said:

Man they need to find a top line RW, somehow.  Taking guys who have been awful and don't deserve to be up there and rotating through them isn't a recipe for success imo, Vesey would of been a better choice because he has a pulse and can at least move at this stage but he would still just be a placeholder.

 

- Captain Obvious

 

 

Jdogg - tough line to deal with in what way?

 

 

 

Re Wheeler next to Krieder/Zib, you never know if some combination might just gel for whatever reason - and the whole ends up greater than the sum of its parts (like the previous success of the kid line...maybe this will lead to the success of the geezers?). And you can't get much lower production on the 1st and 3rd lines if your tried.

 

Cuyle-Chytil-Kakko:  Those are 3 guys each with a pretty good combination of size, skating & skill.  And we've seen Kakko at his best next to Chytil.  Could basically duplicate the effectiveness of the former kid line.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Jdog99

[Ozzy]

10 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

Cap hit certainly a major consideration. But that doesn't answer the when do we stop holding out hope and accept he is what he is? I think if there's a team out there who is interested while he maybe headed down a path of a guy who may fit into the needs/wants a fresh start. I don't think five years in he's going to happily settle into being a bottom six possession with very limited results guy. He maybe a chip with some value to someone that gets cashed in later on this season if he continues to tread water. My two cents. 

 

I can understand that side....I just hate giving up on him right now.  He's doing pretty much what the coach is asking, not us.  I'm thinking there might be something at work in Lavvy's method to the madness here.  we'll see!

 

I'm just all too reminded of how we sold JT Miller a little short, and then he became a 90+ player

Edited November 6, 2023 by Ozzy

[Br4d]

3 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

 

 

I don’t know what’s what between Panarin and Kakko, but it’s been a while.

Maybe you talk to them and try again?

 

 

For understandable reasons Panarin does not like playing with players who possess the puck for long stretches of time without creating scoring chances.

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

For understandable reasons Panarin does not like playing with players who possess the puck for long stretches of time without creating scoring chances.

Panarin likes to have the play flow thru him.  He didnt mesh with Tro and Krappo because they, like you said, like to hold on to the puck and not look for him right away.  That's why Strome worked well with Panarin, his whole mentality on the ice was--as soon as you get the puck, give it to panarin.  (then skate pass the net, but that's another story )

[Scott]

3 hours ago, Jdog99 said:

 

Re Wheeler next to Krieder/Zib, you never know if some combination might just gel for whatever reason - and the whole ends up greater than the sum of its parts (like the previous success of the kid line...maybe this will lead to the success of the geezers?). And you can't get much lower production on the 1st and 3rd lines if your tried.

 

Cuyle-Chytil-Kakko:  Those are 3 guys each with a pretty good combination of size, skating & skill.  And we've seen Kakko at his best next to Chytil.  Could basically duplicate the effectiveness of the former kid line.

Truly throwing darts here and with one of your worst darts to date. A guy some were talking about needing to be sat or worse, a guy that showed nothing even at his homecoming game.  I'm not sure who it reflects worse on Kakko or Wheeler.  Both have been junk to date. 

 

IMO the kid line is one of the most overrated "lines" of all times outside of a Chytil 3 game playoff heater. who scored I believe it was 5 goals in 2 games, 7 in 20 - Bravo.  Laugh and Kakko had total of 4 goals in 39 games in that years playoffs. Realistically they skate around cycling the puck at best with very little production, their possession numbers maybe great. Yay I guess, overall their production is not.  Almost like the whole "Kid Line" is a myth if you look at what they have produced on the score board.  

[Jdog99]

27 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

Truly throwing darts here and with one of your worst darts to date. A guy some were talking about needing to be sat or worse, a guy that showed nothing even at his homecoming game.  I'm not sure who it reflects worse on Kakko or Wheeler.  Both have been junk to date. 

 

IMO the kid line is one of the most overrated "lines" of all times outside of a Chytil 3 game playoff heater. who scored I believe it was 5 goals in 2 games, 7 in 20 - Bravo.  Laugh and Kakko had total of 4 goals in 39 games in that years playoffs. Realistically they skate around cycling the puck at best with very little production, their possession numbers maybe great. Yay I guess, overall their production is not.  Almost like the whole "Kid Line" is a myth if you look at what they have produced on the score board.  

 

i mean...we'll see soon enough...wheeler could end up being a dud on line 1 too - and what would we be losing? how many more games should they stick it out with the k-z-k line lacking ES production?

 

and id be fine with a cuylle-tro-kakko line as well...

Edited November 7, 2023 by Jdog99

[JHS]

16 hours ago, jsrangers said:

Honest question at what point do we drop the holding out hope or worse assuming there's upside potential and accept he is what he is, what he's shown to be to date 250 games in. Yes he will remain cheap because he completely continues to underdeliver on expectations. He be defensively responsible. 

 

I think he'll get moved rather than being a guy who sticks around in that kinda of roll, just my two cents. 

 

Yeah he is 100% a 3rd line plugger at this point.  I don't see him being any more than that based on his skills alone.

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, JHS said:

 

Yeah he is 100% a 3rd line plugger at this point.  I don't see him being any more than that based on his skills alone.

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion regarding his skills. His skills aren't the issue, he's got fantastic hands, a fantastic shot, and he's greater controlling the puck.

 

His issues boil down to foot speed and decision making, if you have good decision making skills you can overcome foot speed, and if you have foot speed you can buy yourself a little time to make decisions.

 

Struggling with both of those is a death sentence. 

[JHS]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion regarding his skills. His skills aren't the issue, he's got fantastic hands, a fantastic shot, and he's greater controlling the puck.

 

His issues boil down to foot speed and decision making, if you have good decision making skills you can overcome foot speed, and if you have foot speed you can buy yourself a little time to make decisions.

 

Struggling with both of those is a death sentence. 

 

Because he's slow and it seems like his skills are not really translating in top 6 opportunities.  In order to be a major point producer he's going to need to play in the top 6 and so far through 10 games he's destroyed the line.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Kakko is still on the team?  He's been so quiet I forgot he was playing.

[The Dude]

When Kakko has the puck, he reminds me a bit of Kevin Hayes.. Minus any production.

 

Kakko is getting to that point of infuriating the shit out of me. I hated Hayes because he'd stick hand around everyone on the ice but wind up facing the glass in one of the corners. Kakko is heading that way.

 

Hayes would atleast put up some points. It's baffling how Kakko isn't . 1 G 1 assist? Come on kid. Get it together. 

 

I'm really pulling for him. I'm pretty sure there's a good offensive player in there. I'm hoping this coaching staff can tap into that skillset. Times almost up. 

[Br4d]

Kakko should be shooting first and asking questions later.

 

All the other things would start to come together if he was more decisive with the puck when he's in range.  All it takes is a moment's indecision or hesitation and that shot attempt is gone forever.  Do that over and over again and you are where he is right now.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Kakko tends to make 1 move too many all the time.

[Pete]

47 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Times almost up.

Nah, he'll always be a cost control third line defensive contributor. There's no reason not to keep him.

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Nah, he'll always be a cost control third line defensive contributor. There's no reason not to keep him.

 

Exactly!!  He's in a contract year this year as well.  Kakko is an inexpensive, responsibly defensive forward, with serious offensive potential.

 

He's also 22!  ...and still seems like a deer in the headlights.  Nonetheless, I still think he has untapped offensive talent;  A shot like that is going to be harnessed at some point, and I wanna be the beneficiary of that breakout, when it happens...because it will!

 

I may not be alive to see it, BUT it will!!  LOL

[lefty9]

25 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Kakko tends to make 1 move too many all the time.

as slow as he is ,its the only was be can keep the puck  away from forecheckers 

 

[lefty9]

I don't mind his defense ,or forchecking ,but his offense sucks  

[BrooksBurner]

29 minutes ago, Pete said:

Nah, he'll always be a cost control third line defensive contributor. There's no reason not to keep him.

For this reason, I still think an argument exists to extend him for 4 years or so like Chytil. Maybe he comes in a little less. 4x4. At worst it’s a slightly overpaid 3rd liner.

 

With that said, I’m not holding Kakko out of trade talks if they can land a legitimate top 6 winger with some term left.

Edited November 16, 2023 by BrooksBurner