Mercogliano What Happens at Center?

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, josh said:

Is Pete showing optimism for Lafreniere AND Kakko?!?

 

They're finally doing something LOL. Especially Lafreniere. 

[Capt]

38 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't see what "gifted" spots have to do with the conversation. 

 

I agree with you on Lafreniere, and I'm not really seeing this "outbreak" from the Kid Line. They had some good games and some luck. Chytil had a decent playoff but at this point I don't see him as having more to give. I think Kakko is on the cusp of putting it all together and becoming what we thought he'd be. 

 

FWIW, I still don't think Chytil is a center, either. Bad on draws, doesn't use his linemates, not a real creative playmaker. He's a wing, IMO. 

Completely agree he's a wing.  The lack of center depth in the organization makes it very unlikely that happens though.  I also think Kakko is close.  I don't know if he's ever going to produce enough points to satisfy a large portion of the fanbase but I think he's close to becoming a really good two way player with 20 goals 40/50 points.  Powerplay time is unlikely which of course will drive down his numbers.

[BrooksBurner]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't see what "gifted" spots have to do with the conversation. 

 

I agree with you on Lafreniere, and I'm not really seeing this "outbreak" from the Kid Line. They had some good games and some luck. Chytil had a decent playoff but at this point I don't see him as having more to give. I think Kakko is on the cusp of putting it all together and becoming what we thought he'd be. 

 

FWIW, I still don't think Chytil is a center, either. Bad on draws, doesn't use his linemates, not a real creative playmaker. He's a wing, IMO. 

The Kid Line was good, but I agree not an outbreak by any means. I thought Kakko was the passenger on the line though. Chytil drove the play and pace while also scoring, Lafreniere was driving the physicality and making plays consistently. Kakko was…what? I’m not sure. He wasn’t a “zero”. I recall a couple of nice plays, and he possessed the puck along the boards fairly well. But I really just don’t see game breaking attributes or top 6 to his game. Chytil has speed and plays with the kind of pace needed in the playoffs, though it’s obviously not always there throughout the year. He needs consistency.

 

I thought Chytil played well when Gallant moved him up on Zibanejad’s right in the playoffs. It might be a path forward for him on the team if Kakko, rather than Chytil, gets moved for a center.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

The Kid Line was good, but I agree not an outbreak by any means. I thought Kakko was the passenger on the line though. Chytil drove the play and pace while also scoring, Lafreniere was driving the physicality and making plays consistently. Kakko was…what? I’m not sure. He wasn’t a “zero”. I recall a couple of nice plays, and he possessed the puck along the boards fairly well. But I really just don’t see game breaking attributes or top 6 to his game. Chytil has speed and plays with the kind of pace needed in the playoffs, though it’s obviously not always there throughout the year. He needs consistency.

 

I thought Chytil played well when Gallant moved him up on Zibanejad’s right in the playoffs. It might be a path forward for him on the team if Kakko, rather than Chytil, gets moved for a center.

Hear ya. 

 

I think Kakko is at his best in the zone, not on the rush which is where Chytil excels. So I don't really agree that Chytil was driving play more than Kakko, Kakko slows the game down, cycles, controls the puck and can get it to "soft" areas for his linemates. That's why I'm excited to see what he does next, because that style was his bread and butter pre-draft. 

 

They just need to put him with the right guys. It's not Chytil and not Panarin. 

[josh]

<iframe src="https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/embed/3390390" class="frame" height="500px" width="100%" scrolling="yes" frameborder="0"></iframe>3

 

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Kaapo Kakko ($2,385,000) - Vitali Kravtsov ($875,000) - Samuel Blais ($1,525,000) - Barclay Goodrow ($3,641,667) - Ryan Reaves ($1,750,000)
Centre: Mika Zibanejad ($8,500,000) - Filip Chytil ($2,300,000) - Jonathan Toews ($2,650,000) - Jonny Brodzinski ($762,500)
Left wing: Chris Kreider ($6,500,000) - Artemi Panarin ($11,642,857) - Alexis Lafrenière ($925,000) - Dryden Hunt ($762,500)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: Adam Fox ($9,500,000) - Jacob Trouba ($8,000,000) - Braden Schneider ($925,000) - Nils Lundkvist ($925,000)
Left: Ryan Lindgren ($3,000,000) - K'Andre Miller ($925,000) - Zachary Jones ($925,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
Igor Shesterkin ($5,666,667) - Braden Holtby ($1,200,000)

BUYOUTS (4)
Kevin Shattenkirk ($1,433,333) - Dan Girardi ($1,111,111) - Anthony Deangelo ($883,334) - Brad Richards ($0)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
Salary Cap: $82,500,000
Cap Hit: $78,713,969
Cap Space: $3,786,031

Edited July 4, 2022 by josh

[Long live the King]

I wanna see:

 

Laf-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-maybe PLD-Krav

CK-Goody-maybe Names

 

I want Zib to get back to shooting more.  When he scored 41 in 57 games he averaged 3.65 shots per game.  Last year only 2.7 shots per game.  I think he was trying to force it to Kreider too much.  Kreider can still score 30+ on special teams and breakaways alone.  I want 40 goal Zib back.

[jsm7302]

8 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

I wanna see:

 

Laf-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-maybe PLD-Krav

CK-Goody-maybe Names

 

I want Zib to get back to shooting more.  When he scored 41 in 57 games he averaged 3.65 shots per game.  Last year only 2.7 shots per game.  I think he was trying to force it to Kreider too much.  Kreider can still score 30+ on special teams and breakaways alone.  I want 40 goal Zib back.

Kakko in the top 6 is something I don't want to see to start the year.

 

I just can't agree with breaking up CK and Zib. I want to see Laf excel on the RW on that line.

 

Bread- PLD- Krav is another line I want to see.

 

Let Kakko fight it out on the 3rd line. Dude hasn't earned the promotion. 

[Long live the King]

3 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Kakko in the top 6 is something I don't want to see to start the year.

 

I just can't agree with breaking up CK and Zib. I want to see Laf excel on the RW on that line.

 

Bread- PLD- Krav is another line I want to see.

 

Let Kakko fight it out on the 3rd line. Dude hasn't earned the promotion. 

 

As @Pete said, "Kakko slows the game down, cycles, controls the puck and can get it to "soft" areas for his linemates."

 

Kakko needs to play with a goal scorer.  Your not gonna see production from him when he's playing with 3rd liners who can't think offense the way he does.  That's why you see him hild on to the puck forever until he eventually loses it, because his linemates don't get open for a pass.

[josh]

I keep coming back to putting Lafreniere on the third line. With him breaking out, he could really take advantage of those matchups. In an “ok” season he only had 4 fewer ES goals than Kreider. Spread out the talent. 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, josh said:

I keep coming back to putting Lafreniere on the third line. With him breaking out, he could really take advantage of those matchups. In an “ok” season he only had 4 fewer ES goals than Kreider. Spread out the talent. 

Then GG needs to give equal time to both PP units when PP1 isn't going or they refuse to shoot.

 

PP are the perfect situation to gain confidence, hold the puck, make plays.

[Long live the King]

1 minute ago, josh said:

I keep coming back to putting Lafreniere on the third line. With him breaking out, he could really take advantage of those matchups. In an “ok” season he only had 4 fewer ES goals than Kreider. Spread out the talent. 

 

Or.....spread out the talent by flipping CK onto the 3rd.  With his size and speed that'd make for a good shutdown 3rd line.  Let Goodrow play C.  Sign Names, maybe trade for Connor Brown to play on the RW.

[Keirik]

4 hours ago, The Dude said:

Because he's not likely to score 52 again and they would be adding a FUCKING POINT PER GAME PLAYER to his line? 

 

 

Both Panarin and Kreider would benefit from playing on the same line. Kreider would open up the ice for Panarin and Kreider would be a net front presence for Panarin. You want Panarin to shoot more? Kreider can help that situation. 

 

If it means that much to you, they can move Panarin to the right. Moving who ever where with this trio isn't the question. The only question is why put all of you legit scorers on one line. I'd get that argument. 

 

 

 

Nah. All caps and expletives dont change much. Neither do gifs. Ziby and Kreids work fine together as a line and have chemistry for years. Ziby is the ppg player on the line basically. You don't mess with our best chemistry just for shits and giggles. Maybe you could move Panarin to the right but why do that when he puts up 90+ points on the left on another line ? 

   They just have to figure out what they plan to do at 2C and the rest falls into place. If it's Chytl then he has a whole season to de elop chemistry with one of the best playmakers in the league. RW could be Kakko or Alf (preferably). The "kid line" was a nice little story but incredibly overblown in its effectiveness. I'm not rearranging the entire team just to have the kid like be line 2. 

   

[josh]

17 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Or.....spread out the talent by flipping CK onto the 3rd.  With his size and speed that'd make for a good shutdown 3rd line.  Let Goodrow play C.  Sign Names, maybe trade for Connor Brown to play on the RW.

I think they have enough talent to have grind and talent in the same lines. And then the Panarin line. Kreider plays the big bodied forechecker that goes to the front of the net on the first line. No reason to change. If you are stacking the line, move Kreider to the RW. It won’t affect his game 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[josh]

Now I’m down the Malkin rabbit hole.

i need to see more video on his speed and defense though.  His goals were off the “Russian” cycle and from going to the net. He scored a lot of dirty goals around the crease. But man, what a BIG talented lineup

 

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider

Panarin - Malkin - Kravtsov 

Goodrow - Chytil - Kakko

Reaves - Namestnikov- Blais 

Hunt

[Br4d]

2 hours ago, Long live the King said:

I wanna see:

 

Laf-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-maybe PLD-Krav

CK-Goody-maybe Names

 

I want Zib to get back to shooting more.  When he scored 41 in 57 games he averaged 3.65 shots per game.  Last year only 2.7 shots per game.  I think he was trying to force it to Kreider too much.  Kreider can still score 30+ on special teams and breakaways alone.  I want 40 goal Zib back.

 

Totally with you on giving the young wings to Zibanejad.  Kakko plays a style on the right that should mesh really well with Zibanejad, both from a setpiece cross ice pass and from just the normal give-and-go on the rush.  Lafreniere needs to be the focus for the Rangers next season.  Time to get him going and no better way to do that then put him on a line with two playmakers and another guy who scares defenses when he gets the puck.

 

Ideally Zibanejad is doing his 200 ft thing and Kakko is grinding along the right boards and Lafreniere is camping in front of the net.

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, josh said:

Now I’m down the Malkin rabbit hole.

i need to see more video on his speed and defense though.  His goals were off the “Russian” cycle and from going to the net. He scored a lot of dirty goals around the crease. But man, what a BIG talented lineup

 

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider

Panarin - Malkin - Kravtsov 

Goodrow - Chytil - Kakko

Reaves - Namestnikov- Blais 

Hunt

 

Chytil and Kakko have been a somewhat underwhelming pairing so far except for a couple of games in the post-season.  I'd really like to see them get to play with other people next season.

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

Totally with you on giving the young wings to Zibanejad.  Kakko plays a style on the right that should mesh really well with Zibanejad, both from a setpiece cross ice pass and from just the normal give-and-go on the rush.  Lafreniere needs to be the focus for the Rangers next season.  Time to get him going and no better way to do that then put him on a line with two playmakers and another guy who scares defenses when he gets the puck.

 

Ideally Zibanejad is doing his 200 ft thing and Kakko is grinding along the right boards and Lafreniere is camping in front of the net.

Next letter Vannah.

 

If you break up Kreider and Zib, you’re insane.

 

A little politically incorrect… That’s retarded.

 

Add to them. Don’t subtract. 
 

Retarded. 

[Br4d]

3 hours ago, josh said:

I keep coming back to putting Lafreniere on the third line. With him breaking out, he could really take advantage of those matchups. In an “ok” season he only had 4 fewer ES goals than Kreider. Spread out the talent. 

If Lafreniere gets 3rd line minutes next season the Rangers are definitely doing something wrong.

[josh]

Just now, Br4d said:

If Lafreniere gets 3rd line minutes next season the Rangers are definitely doing something wrong.

Nah, not if they do it right.

 

the top two lines play heavy special teams minutes. If gallant stops throwing out random fucking pairings all 2nd period because there was a penalty, the minutes will naturally be even. 

[Br4d]

10 minutes ago, josh said:

Nah, not if they do it right.

 

the top two lines play heavy special teams minutes. If gallant stops throwing out random fucking pairings all 2nd period because there was a penalty, the minutes will naturally be even. 

Maybe if he puts Lafreniere on PP1 or 2.

 

The gigantic elephant in the room that we're all missing right now is that the Rangers didn't have enough depth last year before the trade deadline deals and everything they did there is about to get wiped away *plus* we're losing Strome, *plus* we've got a cap crunch in the near future.

 

This team is not making the playoffs next year let alone getting into June if we're just leaning on Igor again.

 

People say that we can't break up Zib and Kreider but the facts are that when the Rangers over rely on that line the offense gets shut down for games at a time against good defenses.

 

People say that we should run the kid line out there again even with lots of evidence suggesting that they are holding each other back instead of mutually supporting.

 

People say that Panarin just hasn't found a great fit among his linemates even though he has individually excelled with everybody he has skated with.

 

We need to figure this stuff out next season and running this season's solutions out there in a less talented shell isn't going to do much for us.

[Long live the King]

26 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Next letter Vannah.

 

If you break up Kreider and Zib, you’re insane.

 

A little politically incorrect… That’s retarded.

 

Add to them. Don’t subtract. 
 

Retarded. 

 

Cool.

 

The Rangers were not good enough 5v5 all year long.

 

Kreider had 29 goals on special teams.  His special teams time isn't going to change.

 

Kreider played exclusively with Zib and averaged 1.11 goals and 1.78 points/60.

Laf played mostly with Chytil and averaged 1.10 goals and 1.66 points/60.

 

Kakko played 71% of his 5v5 time with either Zib line (43.2) or Bread line (27.9).  He put up .95 assists/60 which trailed only Panarin, Zib, and Strome among the pre-deadline forwards.  He had a slow start, scoreless in the first 10 games, but he had 14 points in 27 games before getting hurt.

 

Putting Laf and Kakko on Zib's wings is going to make a very effective 5v5 line.  Kreider will not only continue to get his 5v5 breakaway chances on the 3rd line, but he'll get them against worse/slower/less positionally sound defenders.

[Long live the King]

53 minutes ago, josh said:

Nah, not if they do it right.

 

the top two lines play heavy special teams minutes. If gallant stops throwing out random fucking pairings all 2nd period because there was a penalty, the minutes will naturally be even. 

 

There wasn't really a big discrepancy 5v5:

 

Panarin - 15:13

Strome - 14:06

Zib - 13:40

CK - 13:20

Kakko - 13:17

Goodrow - 13:10

Laf - 12:22

 

LZK 2023 - Make Zib a goal scorer again.

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, Keirik said:

Nah. All caps and expletives dont change much. Neither do gifs. Ziby and Kreids work fine together as a line and have chemistry for years. Ziby is the ppg player on the line basically. You don't mess with our best chemistry just for shits and giggles. Maybe you could move Panarin to the right but why do that when he puts up 90+ points on the left on another line ? 

   They just have to figure out what they plan to do at 2C and the rest falls into place. If it's Chytl then he has a whole season to de elop chemistry with one of the best playmakers in the league. RW could be Kakko or Alf (preferably). The "kid line" was a nice little story but incredibly overblown in its effectiveness. I'm not rearranging the entire team just to have the kid like be line 2. 

   

What's with you having something against caps ( i didn't write a paragraph in all caps) and expletives? It is a form of getting a point or emotion through in typing. Can you stop acting like you're some sophisticated guy? Please. Every time with this shit...  You're a cop. Not a Nobel prize writer. Gimme a fuckin break with this shit. 

 

Anyway,  if you read my post and didn't concentrate on expletives and Caps, you'd see I already brought up the better argument is that having all 3 on the same line could be a bad idea. Then again they could score every time they are on the ice. I'm not even splitting up Zibanejad and Kreider, so I don't know why you started off as if I suggested it. I later suggest Panarin on the right if it's that big a deal. Did you read my post or just decide to argue with me because you're bored? It was the expletives ... Wasn't it?

 

I'm rearranging the team because they can't afford to bring in a 2C and in the near future, extend kids who have top 6 potential to new contracts. 

 

They can't keep potential 2nd line players stashed on the 3rd line for ever. When do you suggest making that transition? How do you explain to your 1 and 2 OA that you are just biding time and really don't want to use them in a prominent role that will jumpstart their careers and get them big money? What do the kids think? 

 

To me, I think this is exactly how you push a top prospect into signing an offer sheet or requesting a trade. 

 

How do you suggest the Rangers deploy these players and make them happy? Chytil has little to no chemistry with Panarin.  Kakko played most of his start of the season with Panarin and showed very little chemistry. Lafreniere wants to play LW and played his best at LW. All 3 played their best hockey together and grew as players in the playoffs.  

 

What I don't understand from your take, is that you think the kid line was an "overblown story" in the playoffs.  Yet, you will point at Panarin (at almost a PPG, and being a legit top player in the game), and say he had a pretty lack luster playoffs and season,  and continually shit on him for it...  So one circumstance is overblown and the other isn't, simply because it was some point you were trying to make before the playoffs about Panarin. 

 

Play the kids. Save money,  move Panarin to the top line where he has chemistry with the same players that create a lethal PP. Go from there. If it doesn't work, you adjust the lines or make a move mid season.  What exactly do they lose in doing that? They can only gain and move forward.  

 

Main point is, they can't keep sitting on the kids. It's not good for anyone involved. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by The Dude

[Keirik]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

What's with you having something against caps ( i didn't write a paragraph in all caps) and expletives? It is a form of getting a point or emotion through in typing. Can you stop acting like you're some sophisticated guy? Please. Every time with this shit...  You're a cop. Not a Nobel prize writer. Gimme a fuckin break with this shit. 

You equate a job to intelligence or just actual maturity? What planet are you on?  Honestly dude, give the diatribe a rest. It becomes increasingly difficult to even take you seriously when you start off a point cursing and using all caps needlessly. We all have conversations. We all have points. If you think you need to add all caps and curses to get your point across then maybe your point is thinly veiled in the first place. 
 

      There’s a time and place for it when joking and then there’s the times you use them lol. Or just keep on keeping on. Whatever gets you through the day. I just don’t see how it adds to a healthy conversation at all. 

[Keirik]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

What's with you having something against caps ( i didn't write a paragraph in all caps) and expletives? It is a form of getting a point or emotion through in typing. Can you stop acting like you're some sophisticated guy? Please. Every time with this shit...  You're a cop. Not a Nobel prize writer. Gimme a fuckin break with this shit. 

 

Anyway,  if you read my post and didn't concentrate on expletives and Caps, you'd see I already brought up the better argument is that having all 3 on the same line could be a bad idea. Then again they could score every time they are on the ice. I'm not even splitting up Zibanejad and Kreider, so I don't know why you started off as if I suggested it. I later suggest Panarin on the right if it's that big a deal. Did you read my post or just decide to argue with me because you're bored? It was the expletives ... Wasn't it?

 

I'm rearranging the team because they can't afford to bring in a 2C and in the near future, extend kids who have top 6 potential to new contracts. 

 

They can't keep potential 2nd line players stashed on the 3rd line for ever. When do you suggest making that transition? How do you explain to your 1 and 2 OA that you are just biding time and really don't want to use them in a prominent role that will jumpstart their careers and get them big money? What do the kids think? 

 

To me, I think this is exactly how you push a top prospect into signing an offer sheet or requesting a trade. 

 

How do you suggest the Rangers deploy these players and make them happy? Chytil has little to no chemistry with Panarin.  Kakko played most of his start of the season with Panarin and showed very little chemistry. Lafreniere wants to play LW and played his best at LW. All 3 played their best hockey together and grew as players in the playoffs.  

 

What I don't understand from your take, is that you think the kid line was an "overblown story" in the playoffs.  Yet, you will point at Panarin (at almost a PPG, and being a legit top player in the game), and say he had a pretty lack luster playoffs and season,  and continually shit on him for it...  So one circumstance is overblown and the other isn't, simply because it was some point you were trying to make before the playoffs about Panarin. 

 

Play the kids. Save money,  move Panarin to the top line where he has chemistry with the same players that create a lethal PP. Go from there. If it doesn't work, you adjust the lines or make a move mid season.  What exactly do they lose in doing that? They can only gain and move forward.  

 

Main point is, they can't keep sitting on the kids. It's not good for anyone involved. 

Quote

Anyway,  if you read my post and didn't concentrate on expletives and Caps, you'd see I already brought up the better argument is that having all 3 on the same line could be a bad idea. Then again they could score every time they are on the ice. I'm not even splitting up Zibanejad and Kreider, so I don't know why you started off as if I suggested it. I later suggest Panarin on the right if it's that big a deal. Did you read my post or just decide to argue with me because you're bored? It was the expletives ... Wasn't it?

See, here we go again. Throwing in needless jabs. I'm saying to not screw with a 1st line that works anymore than tinkering on a basic level. You want to see if ALF can be a RW? Go for it. You want to see if Kakko can be a 1st line RW? Go for it. You say when are we going to start investing in our kids yet you only want to do so by keeping them on one line together because they had like 3 game span of offense towards the end of the Carolina series/beginning of the Lightning series. That seems to box yourself into a corner real quick. Kind of short sighted to me. 

 

Quote

How do you suggest the Rangers deploy these players and make them happy? Chytil has little to no chemistry with Panarin.  Kakko played most of his start of the season with Panarin and showed very little chemistry. Lafreniere wants to play LW and played his best at LW. All 3 played their best hockey together and grew as players in the playoffs.  

Again, short sighted. They were not a force during the playoffs. It's incredibly overstated. They did some good things but Kakko had 2 goals in 19 games in the playoffs. Alf had 2 goals in 20 games, and Chytil had 7 goals. Chytil seems the most likely from these playoffs to take another step offensively but there is no reason Panarin needs to be moved in the regular season to keep a kid line together. You can easily do a top two lines of 

Kreider- Ziby- Alf/Kakko

Panarin-Chytil- Alf/Kakko

   

   Both of those combos gets our top talented prospects plenty of playing time. Then you have Kravtsov in the mix although im not positive he is here to stay. 

 

Quote

What I don't understand from your take, is that you think the kid line was an "overblown story" in the playoffs.  Yet, you will point at Panarin (at almost a PPG, and being a legit top player in the game), and say he had a pretty lack luster playoffs and season,  and continually shit on him for it...  So one circumstance is overblown and the other isn't, simply because it was some point you were trying to make before the playoffs about Panarin.

 

   I'm not sure where the confusion is on this one. I've been down on Panarins playoff many many times. I've also said guys like Panarin get you to the playoffs. I've also said there is no way they trade him, and I've further also said i want him to stay because eventually he will figure it out. I'm not going to ignore how different he is in the playoffs vs regular season though. I'm also not going to overvalue the kid line because of a handful of good playoff games to the point where i'm willing to overturn proven superstars at their position. Kreids and Ziby are so lethal at what they are that I personally think that the addition of Panarin on his wrong wing to that line long term does more harm than good. It upsets the flow of chemistry. It can work when you overload a line late in the game for a spark, but not every shift in my opinion. 

 

 I'm less concerned with lack of chemistry that a 22 year old displayed with Panarin when he was 20,21,etc. Chemistry is learned. Panarin develops that. He's talented enough to do that. Ziby and Kreids as well. They need a compliment with them, not a play driver. If Chytil took a big step in the playoffs then now is exactly the time to start giving him a bigger role. It doesnt mean they all have to get the exact same bigger role on the exact same line. Talent wise, there is no reason they cant thrive on different lines, especially after gonig so deep in the playoffs where games are just harder. A mid November game against Arizona looks a hell of a lot easier after battling all playoffs with no space and time.