2021-22 Off-Season Thread — Go Into the Sadness

[Keirik]

Just here to say, I can’t believe the opportunity we just lost. My god we were so close and while it’s nice to gain experience, there is no guarantee for an upwards trajectory.

 

might be the most important offseason we have had in a very very long time. 

[Sod16]

You never know.  Fans of teams that have a good playoff run typically think it is the start of something big.  Sometimes a run like this presages long time contender status.  Sometimes, it does not.  

 

We are going to have a lot of cap dictated roster changes.  Cap dictated roster changes went a long way in 2014 and 2015 toward ending what should have been a long period of contention for a young team.

[Pete]

This team is likely to take a major step back next season unless they can unload a big contract. 

 

Trouba would be the best candidate, but for some reason they're slathering over him as C... He's single handedly lost a pivotal game 3, and why you can argue that the calls against him might have been weak, they still were born of poor positional play that has plagued his Ranger career. He's a 5M guy making 8M.

 

But we've said it all along... You're not getting record setting goaltending and 50G from Kreider every year. 

 

Unless this team gets major statistical contributions from the kids, prepare for pain. Salary cap simply will not allow upgrades unless a big contract is moved. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Sod16 said:

You never know.  Fans of teams that have a good playoff run typically think it is the start of something big.  Sometimes a run like this presages long time contender status.  Sometimes, it does not.  

 

We are going to have a lot of cap dictated roster changes.  Cap dictated roster changes went a long way in 2014 and 2015 toward ending what should have been a long period of contention for a young team.

That team was not young, they were at the end of their window and that's why those moves were made. 

[Gravesy]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Unless this team gets major statistical contributions from the kids, prepare for pain.

Yeah. It really comes down to whether what we saw from Lafreniere and Chytil (and Kakko, I suppose, to a lesser extent) in the playoffs was the real deal, or just riding the wave of the moment. I'm inclined to believe it was real from Lafreniere, as he was showing signs of it in the months leading up to the playoffs. I'm slightly worried that for Chytil it was more a case of a broken watch being right twice a day. 

But like you say, it's hard to see a path where this goes well next season unless the kids take major steps. Kravtsov included in that. 

[Bugg]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

This team is likely to take a major step back next season unless they can unload a big contract. 

 

Trouba would be the best candidate, but for some reason they're slathering over him as C... He's single handedly lost a pivotal game 3, and why you can argue that the calls against him might have been weak, they still were born of poor positional play that has plagued his Ranger career. He's a 5M guy making 8M.

 

But we've said it all along... You're not getting record setting goaltending and 50G from Kreider every year. 

 

Unless this team gets major statistical contributions from the kids, prepare for pain. Salary cap simply will not allow upgrades unless a big contract is moved. 

At least 2 of the penalties were total horseshit. Worry is does he now have the black mark like Brendan Lemieux or Avery going forward.

 

But it's true they're gonna have to find a way to offload some salary to improve things dramatically. Doesn't preclude another playoff run, but it's not guranteed by any means.

 

As someone else pointed out though, with a flat cap the teams players want to play for don't have much money, the teams nobody wants to play for have tons of cap space.  But for example with Trocheck; this is his last shot at the brass ring of a big ass contract. Does a guy like that want to go to Buffalo or Arizona for a pile of $, or does he want to win? Suspect with most players the money is gonna decide things for them, even if the team sucks. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Bugg

[RangersIn7]

Yup. They need legitimate and consistent offense from the kids moving forward.

But I’m very encouraged based on what we saw in this postseason. And at this point, they’ve simply just got to play more minutes. 
 

On a side note, there’s a lot of these UFA’s whom it appears really want to stay here. There appears to be a pretty fair shot and keeping some of them around.

[RangersIn7]

4 minutes ago, Bugg said:

At least 2 of the penalties were total horseshit. Worry is does he now have the black mark like Brendan Lemieux or Avery going forward.

 

But it's true they're gonna have to find a way to offload some salary to improve things dramatically. Doesn't preclude another playoff run, but it's not guranteed by any means.

 

As someone else pointed out though, with a flat cap the teams players want to play for don't have much money, the teams nobody wants to play for have tons of cap space.  But for example with Trocheck; this is his last shot at the brass ring of a big ass contract. Does a guy like that want to go to Buffalo or Arizona for a pile of $, or does he want to win? Suspect with most players the money is gonna decide things for them, even if the team sucks. 

The flat cap is a bit misleading as it isn’t actually flat. They already are bumping it up by $1 million and it’s going to go up again. They’ve gotten the increased revenue from the new TV deals with Turner and ESPN. Fans are back. No more empty buildings. 
I don’t think this cap situation sticks around for too too long. 

[BrooksBurner]

8 minutes ago, Bugg said:

At least 2 of the penalties were total horseshit. Worry is does he now have the black mark like Brendan Lemieux or Avery going forward.

 

But it's true they're gonna have to find a way to offload some salary to improve things dramatically. Doesn't preclude another playoff run, but it's not guranteed by any means.

 

As someone else pointed out though, with a flat cap the teams players want to play for don't have much money, the teams nobody wants to play for have tons of cap space.  But for example with Trocheck; this is his last shot at the brass ring of a big ass contract. Does a guy like that want to go to Buffalo or Arizona for a pile of $, or does he want to win? Suspect with most players the money is gonna decide things for them, even if the team sucks. 

I get locking in the money, but I also question desire to win if it is all about that. I find it hard to believe that a competitor like Ryan Strome will just go to whoever is offering the biggest contract out there, after the excitement and joy of a long playoff run. I would expect guys like him to balance salary versus chance to actually win.

[LindG1000]

11 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I get locking in the money, but I also question desire to win if it is all about that. I find it hard to believe that a competitor like Ryan Strome will just go to whoever is offering the biggest contract out there, after the excitement and joy of a long playoff run. I would expect guys like him to balance salary versus chance to actually win.

 

This is also the first offseason where the flat cap starts to hit real hard. If you look at the Venn diagram of "places with money", "places where you actually want to play", and "places where you can win" - there's not much overlap. Start adding things like "does this team actually want you" and it gets even worse, then add complicators like internal caps.

 

There's a group of players that will have to take less for the next few years if they simply want to play competitive hockey in desirable markets. Our entire group of desirable UFAs probably fall into that bucket (Motte, Copp, Strome, Vatrano), and that may play into our advantage. And if they want to chase the paycheck, they can go to Anaheim, or Buffalo, or Ottawa, or Seattle and spend the next 3 years waiting for those teams to turn a corner.

 

[Pete]

Or they could do what Taylor Hall did and just go to a bad team for one year. 

[LindG1000]

Just now, Pete said:

Or they could do what Taylor Hall did and just go to a bad team for one year. 

 

Sure. The point remains that some of the traditional thinking for guys that would normally hit FA and get both term and money may be turned on its head for the mid-sixers and the elite bottom 6 types. 

[RangersIn7]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

This team is likely to take a major step back next season unless they can unload a big contract. 

 

Trouba would be the best candidate, but for some reason they're slathering over him as C... He's single handedly lost a pivotal game 3, and why you can argue that the calls against him might have been weak, they still were born of poor positional play that has plagued his Ranger career. He's a 5M guy making 8M.

 

But we've said it all along... You're not getting record setting goaltending and 50G from Kreider every year. 

 

Unless this team gets major statistical contributions from the kids, prepare for pain. Salary cap simply will not allow upgrades unless a big contract is moved. 

Are we talking about actual value on Trouba?

Or realistic, market dictated value?

 

Cause yes…. $8 million+ is in the lower range of what you pay a truly elite, all-around D… see Fox, Adam or Makar, Cale.

Trouba isn’t that. 
 

But if you look at what he was making that last season in Winnipeg with 1 year left as an RFA behind it, where he had a career year, making $5.5 million, just on a 1-year Arb deal, he’s getting probably $6.5. Thus his market on a long-term deal is that number to $7 million or better. 

[Pete]

37 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Are we talking about actual value on Trouba?

Or realistic, market dictated value?

 

Cause yes…. $8 million+ is in the lower range of what you pay a truly elite, all-around D… see Fox, Adam or Makar, Cale.

Trouba isn’t that. 
 

But if you look at what he was making that last season in Winnipeg with 1 year left as an RFA behind it, where he had a career year, making $5.5 million, just on a 1-year Arb deal, he’s getting probably $6.5. Thus his market on a long-term deal is that number to $7 million or better. 

He made that based on circumstances applying to a situation in Winnipeg that he isn't getting here. He had a career year getting PP time that he has not and won't get anywhere else, and has not replicated anywhere near the production he had there.

[BrooksBurner]

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

He made that based on circumstances applying to a situation in Winnipeg that he isn't getting here. He had a career year getting PP time that he has not and won't get anywhere else, and has not replicated anywhere near the production he had there.

He should thank Winnipeg’s stars for the elevated PP point totals his last year there. I mean he is horrendous as a pointman on the PP.

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

He should thank Winnipeg’s stars for the elevated PP point totals his last year there. I mean he is horrendous as a pointman on the PP.

He really is.

 

I actually have to walk that comment about production back, though...He did have 39 points this year, which is shocking to me.

[LindG1000]

I'm gonna die on this hill but after the playoffs he had, there are at least 5 hockey purist GMs with Don Cherry genes willing to pay a decent value for him at full freight. If so, we would have to consider it, especially because there are a few guys who can probably backfill him at 3RD we could bring in at a far cheaper deal than Trouba (Ian Cole, Josh Manson, even Justin Braun)

[BrooksBurner]

38 minutes ago, Pete said:

He really is.

 

I actually have to walk that comment about production back, though...He did have 39 points this year, which is shocking to me.

Yes, but only 1 PP goal and 3 assists. All of his work came at ES, which is incredibly impressive given the 5v5 issues the team had. Have to figure that’s not likely to be reproduced.

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He made that based on circumstances applying to a situation in Winnipeg that he isn't getting here. He had a career year getting PP time that he has not and won't get anywhere else, and has not replicated anywhere near the production he had there.

 

27 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Yes, but only 1 PP goal and 3 assists. All of his work came at ES, which is incredibly impressive given the 5v5 issues the team had. Have to figure that’s not likely to be reproduced.

Except they didn’t know he wouldn’t get that here when they brought him in. 
He also just set a career high in goals and did, as said, producing the majority of his points at 5v5. 

[Flynn]

I keep seeing "Trade" and "Trouba" in the same sentence.. Lest we forget- 

• 2020-2023: No Movement Clause
• 2024-25: 15 Team No trade List
• 2025-26: 12 Team No Trade List

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Flynn said:

I keep seeing "Trade" and "Trouba" in the same sentence.. Lest we forget- 

• 2020-2023: No Movement Clause
• 2024-25: 15 Team No trade List
• 2025-26: 12 Team No Trade List

Because no one ever waived their clause before...

[Flynn]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Because no one ever waived their clause before...

But he holds all the cards, and that impacts return/retention etc.. Dealing from a position of weakness never works well. 

 

[RangersIn7]

Trading him is simply not going to happen anytime soon.

 

Its like talking about flying cars. 

[Cash or Czech]

His wife was a huge factor in coming to NY so she can pursue her career as well. Would be a very heavy, weighted decision even if he is making $8mil a season. She obviously isn't cool with sitting at home while hubby brings in the bucks. 

[Albatrosss]

Trouba sing

10 hours ago, Pete said:

This team is likely to take a major step back next season unless they can unload a big contract. 

 

Trouba would be the best candidate, but for some reason they're slathering over him as C... He's single handedly lost a pivotal game 3, and why you can argue that the calls against him might have been weak, they still were born of poor positional play that has plagued his Ranger career. He's a 5M guy making 8M.

 

But we've said it all along... You're not getting record setting goaltending and 50G from Kreider every year. 

 

Unless this team gets major statistical contributions from the kids, prepare for pain. Salary cap simply will not allow upgrades unless a big contract is moved. 

at the same time he single handedly turned the shittsburg series around in game 5 by knocking out Crosby and turned the Canes series around by knocking Jarvis out.  Trouba is not going anywhere even with the ridiculous $8M cap hit