2021-22 Off-Season Thread — Go Into the Sadness

[Phil]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Come December they are going to be in the market for exactly what Motte brings. Like they always are. Motte wasn't ask for 2. The market has leveled out and he's still not signed. He's going to be available for close to what he was making. As I stated, had they waited they probably could have come to terms if they ended negotiations on good terms.  

 

And you know this, how?

[The Dude]

Just now, Phil said:

 

And you know this, how?

Because he's not worth 2 and the number going around was 1.6 for 2. That's how.  

[Phil]

Going around where? He literally made $1.45M last season. I find it incredibly hard to believe he was actively negotiating for that little.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, josh said:

I’m not clamoring over Carpenter. I’m simply stating the facts. He’s a versatile Rooney replacement, at a cheaper rate. He checks more boxes, too. It’s a simple decision for Drury, really. I think most are overthinking the decision and tying it to Motte, when I don’t think that’s the case. 

But the facts are skewed. Who cares what his PK minutes were. He isn't some special teams master just because he got that role on a bad Chicago team. 

 

If he were good, he wouldn't have been on the block all last year and he would have been brought back to a team that doesn't want to pay anyone. 

 

You say versatile, but in order to be versatile you have to actually be good at more than one thing. He's not. Hence league minimum.  

 

I understand I'm making a big deal about a 4th liner. I'm just tired of chasing this type of player every deadline. I'd rather start the season with such a player, so they aren't not overpaying for a rental, then rinse and repeat. 

 

We talk about character players in meaningful roles here. I classify Motte as a character player that actually has a use in the actual game played. He's a buzzsaw and looked pretty good here. Some can't pull that off. He did. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, josh said:

Then they can trade a late pick for that before the playoffs. Not an issue. 
 

Although motte is more polished and reliable, Hunt is more aggressive, physical and brought more energy- which the team will need throughout the season. And hunts cap hit disappears if sent down, motte and Reaves wouldn’t 

Hunt is NOT more aggressive or physical. He brought zero energy to any game. He was never a pest, never crashed a net, never dominated the boards, never fought, never got in anyone's face. He skates like shit and generates zero offense. 

 

Motte is way more physical and more of a threat and energy player.

 

Motte wouldn’t have to clear waivers, because it wouldn’t cross anyone's mind to send him down.  If he were, he'd get snatched up pretty quickly. You think anyone claims Hunt? Doubt it. 

 

 

[The Dude]

58 minutes ago, Phil said:

Going around where? He literally made $1.45M last season. I find it incredibly hard to believe he was actively negotiating for that little.

I wish you guys would read what I have been saying.  He probably WAS negotiating for more (i doubt 2, but maybe). I've said this a bunch of times. It's why I said his negotiations with the Rangers must have gone poorly as they walked away fast. What he was asking for and what could have been negotiated and what he ultimately will now settle for are 3 different things. 

 

There were tweets throwing that number around. I don't remember who. It's on here though and I'm sure you commented on it. The numbers were strange,  as 2 and 2 year deals were in the right ballpark,  yet the 3 year option bumped it up above 2. I'll try to find it. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by The Dude

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, josh said:

Then they can trade a late pick for that before the playoffs. Not an issue. 
 

Although motte is more polished and reliable, Hunt is more aggressive, physical and brought more energy- which the team will need throughout the season. And hunts cap hit disappears if sent down, motte and Reaves wouldn’t 

Yup.

 

Thats a player you can always add. Not just at the deadline, when that player is always available, but if you desperately need or want a guy like that in January, you can get him. 
 

In the meantime, you have to see what you can either find from within, or have your scouts find on the cheap in the rest of the league. Good teams that compete and win Cups do that.

 

[The Dude]

54 minutes ago, Phil said:

Going around where? He literally made $1.45M last season. I find it incredibly hard to believe he was actively negotiating for that little.

https://blueseatblogs.com/2022/06/30/thoughts-tyler-motte-re-signing-rumor/

 

They reference the Mollie Walker blurb that you even posted in the Motte thread. They used Evolving Hockey to generate these numbers. You typically take their projections as gospel .

 

They listed a 2 year deal at 1.6 as an option. That's where I got that number. 

[-ERIK-]

3 hours ago, The Dude said:

No. I'm willing to give him a chance.  Atleast he can suck at multiple positions. Hunt will always be my least liked player here. They could bring back Val Kamensky and I'd still hate Hunt more. 

Your willing to give him a chance but already say he sucks, sounds like your mind is made up before he plays one game.

Kamensky didn't even try, dark ages.No thanks,I'll take Hunt over that any day.

[josh]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

But the facts are skewed. Who cares what his PK minutes were. He isn't some special teams master just because he got that role on a bad Chicago team. 

 

If he were good, he wouldn't have been on the block all last year and he would have been brought back to a team that doesn't want to pay anyone. 

 

You say versatile, but in order to be versatile you have to actually be good at more than one thing. He's not. Hence league minimum.  

 

I understand I'm making a big deal about a 4th liner. I'm just tired of chasing this type of player every deadline. I'd rather start the season with such a player, so they aren't not overpaying for a rental, then rinse and repeat. 

 

We talk about character players in meaningful roles here. I classify Motte as a character player that actually has a use in the actual game played. He's a buzzsaw and looked pretty good here. Some can't pull that off. He did. 

Mottes worth about 2 posts. I don’t care any more. 

[Albatrosss]

15 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Drury isn’t Italian.

 

If you’re not Italian, your pizza sucks. 
 

I can’t blame him for that. 

Druri?

[RJWantsTheCup]

If Motte wanted only 1.5M or less someone would’ve signed him already.   Rangers still have some minor moves to make but Drury is in no rush to make them.  Have a feeling he wants to see how some young players perform in pre-season first. 

[The Dude]

13 hours ago, -ERIK- said:

Your willing to give him a chance but already say he sucks, sounds like your mind is made up before he plays one game.

Kamensky didn't even try, dark ages.No thanks,I'll take Hunt over that any day.

That's because he sucks. Hunt REALLY sucks. 

[RangersIn7]

25 minutes ago, The Dude said:

That's because he sucks. Hunt REALLY sucks. 

He’s a 13/14 forward. He got over utilized last year because of depth issues and Gallant likes him. 

 

Those guys mostly suck since the start of the cap era. It’s the nature of things at this point. 
 

 

[The Dude]

13 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

He’s a 13/14 forward. He got over utilized last year because of depth issues and Gallant likes him. 

 

Those guys mostly suck since the start of the cap era. It’s the nature of things at this point. 
 

 

Yes and the Rangers could have done without either and brought back a better player. Having 2 players that suck, doesn't add up to one not so sucky player. 

 

They are wastes of roster and cap space, which could have been used on the better player. 

 

Even though I'm the one bitching about it,  I think this topic has been exhausted.

 

They chose shitty players over a good one, due to higher demands at the start of negotiations and free agency.  That's not going to change (the choices).

 

All I'm going to do is hope Carpenter can atleast play an aggressive game and gain back his faceoff ability to help build another lame ass 4th line that doesn't really do anything. Just like last season. Yay .

Edited July 23, 2022 by The Dude

[RJWantsTheCup]

Hunt is ok as the 13/14th Forward.  He was already signed for this season.  Hajek and Gauthier are the wasted signings if they aren’t expected to be on the team and Reaves contract for what he brings is costing a player like Motte.  Didn’t need to extend and give Reaves a raise.  

[josh]

It’s a cap era. You fill out those last roster spots with the cheapest guys that check as many boxes as you can find.

carpenter plays C, wins draws, kills penalties.

Hunt has a motor, hits, plays hard. these 2 show up every game - which is the biggest box. Role players. 

you can’t expect to get Rod Brind’amour in his prime for league minimum. 

[RangersIn7]

9 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Yes and the Rangers could have done without either and brought back a better player. Having 2 players that suck, doesn't add up to one not so sucky player. 

 

They are wastes of roster and cap space, which could have been used on the better player. 

 

Even though I'm the one bitching about it,  I think this topic has been exhausted.

 

They chose shitty players over a good one and that's not going to change. All I'm going to do is hope Carpenter can atleast play an aggressive game and gain back his faceoff ability to help build another lame ass 4th line that doesn't really do anything. Just like last season. Yay .

It may not be that.

 

If one of Cuylle or Othmann makes the roster and plays well on a 3rd line, a 4th line of Goodrow-Carpenter-Blais could be very good.

[josh]

Bigger rivalry, Dude vs Hunt or Phil vs Bible?

[RangersIn7]

15 minutes ago, josh said:

It’s a cap era. You fill out those last roster spots with the cheapest guys that check as many boxes as you can find.

carpenter plays C, wins draws, kills penalties.

Hunt has a motor, hits, plays hard. these 2 show up every game - which is the biggest box. Role players. 

you can’t expect to get Rod Brind’amour in his prime for league minimum. 

Yup.

 

We hate on Hunt too much I think. He shouldn’t have played 70+ games last year. 
If he had played half that, and was legitimately used as 13/14, as he should, we wouldn’t care. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 minute ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yup.

 

We hate on Hunt too much I think. He shouldn’t have played 70+ games last year. 
If he had played half that, and was legitimately used as 13/14, as he should, we wouldn’t care. 

I think it’s 30+ games Hunt played with Panarin that bring the hate out.  He’s actually not a terrible 4th liner.  It’s just he can’t be slotted up the lineup at all.  

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, josh said:

Bigger rivalry, Dude vs Hunt or Phil vs Bible?

Strome vs the world. 

[Br4d]

The issues the Rangers have going into '21-'22 are:

 

1.  No RW for the top two lines.

 

The guys they're depending on to fill those slots are Kratsov, Kakko or a move of Lafreniere to RW of which probably Lafreniere is the only option that looks notably top 6 worthy.

 

 All 3 options carry some risk.  Kratsov is still an unknown at the NHL level.  For all his talent we have no idea if he's going to be an NHL RW, let alone a top 6 guy.  Also he's in Russia at the moment which makes his return to the USA an unknown factor until he's actually on the plane and out of Russian airspace.

 

 Kakko has had significant time in the NHL and so far he hasn't put it together at this level.  He's a step late and missed open net waiting to happen at this point.  He's very young and definitely could put it together but that is just a "could" at this point.  Nobody would be surprised if he was packaged at the deadline this year. 

 

Lafreniere clearly has the talent and has proven his ability at the NHL level but he's making the switch to RW if this is the path the Rangers take and we have no idea if that switch would be profitable, breakeven or a setback.  Odds are probably even on each possibility.

 

2.  3C is still Chytil on paper however 4 seasons play suggest he is marginal at 3C.  The Rangers hope that his playoff run was a breakthrough and not just a 2 week hot streak.

 

3.  Logjam at LW with Panarin and Kreider firmly ensconced and the Rangers considering moving Lafreniere to RW.  Young talent abounds in Cuylle and Othman and Trivigno is a decent bottom 6 option.

 

There are a lot of moving pieces on the Rangers at this point and a team that got 110 pts in the regular season and to the conference finals is very unlikely to have even one line that looks the same as it did last season.  Given a coach who wants proven options the Rangers may be severely lacking in the consistency he demands, particularly given the number of young unproven players in the equation.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

The issues the Rangers have going into '21-'22 are:

 

1.  No RW for the top two lines.

 

The guys they're depending on to fill those slots are Kratsov, Kakko or a move of Lafreniere to RW of which probably Lafreniere is the only option that looks notably top 6 worthy.

 

 All 3 options carry some risk.  Kratsov is still an unknown at the NHL level.  For all his talent we have no idea if he's going to be an NHL RW, let alone a top 6 guy.  Also he's in Russia at the moment which makes his return to the USA an unknown factor until he's actually on the plane and out of Russian airspace.

 

 Kakko has had significant time in the NHL and so far he hasn't put it together at this level.  He's a step late and missed open net waiting to happen at this point.  He's very young and definitely could put it together but that is just a "could" at this point.  Nobody would be surprised if he was packaged at the deadline this year. 

 

Lafreniere clearly has the talent and has proven his ability at the NHL level but he's making the switch to RW if this is the path the Rangers take and we have no idea if that switch would be profitable, breakeven or a setback.  Odds are probably even on each possibility.

 

2.  3C is still Chytil on paper however 4 seasons play suggest he is marginal at 3C.  The Rangers hope that his playoff run was a breakthrough and not just a 2 week hot streak.

 

3.  Logjam at LW with Panarin and Kreider firmly ensconced and the Rangers considering moving Lafreniere to RW.  Young talent abounds in Cuylle and Othman and Trivigno is a decent bottom 6 option.

 

There are a lot of moving pieces on the Rangers at this point and a team that got 110 pts in the regular season and to the conference finals is very unlikely to have even one line that looks the same as it did last season.  Given a coach who wants proven options the Rangers may be severely lacking in the consistency he demands, particularly given the number of young unproven players in the equation.

Kravtsov is here. 

 

 

All the other points are ... Well last year was a wild ride on the backs of Kreider, Shesty, the PP.

 

They shot their shot at the deadline because of that, but it was pretty well known what was going on.

 

Regression was to be expected, been said for awhile. Young players growing into roles is part of what rebuilding is. I don't know that I'd refer to it an "issues" as much as things that need to be figured out in camp. 

 

An issue that certainly needs to be addressed is the putrid team defense. 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Pete

[josh]

Traktor training camp started around the 15th. Seemed like he specifically got out before that. I feel like he came over later in previous seasons.

 

Kravtsov has still been my favorite drafted prospect, maybe ever. He has the potential to complement some of these skilled winger more than anyone else. Perfect off-wing for Panarin AND Lafreniere.