Rangers Give Kravtsov Permission to Seek Trade; Loaned to KHL

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

How is it not? Especially on the right side there's Kakko (still not showed that he can be a productive scoring winger) than Blais, Goodrow, Gauthier, Reaves. That's really not a high scoring winger depth.

On the left there's Panarin, streaky Kreider and (still struggling) Lafreniere.

If the few first games have shown anything, it is that this team lack some scoring and winger depth. Dryden freakin' Hunt is playing top 9 and PP, Blais is all of a sudden a top 6 forward and PP'er.

According to VK he only wants to play in the top six, not even in the top nine.

Those top six spots are all taken, and we've already covered the fact that if he just accepted his AHL assignment, he would probably be slotting in place of Kakko right now.

 

[LindG1000]

14 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

How is it not? Especially on the right side there's Kakko (still not showed that he can be a productive scoring winger) than Blais, Goodrow, Gauthier, Reaves. That's really not a high scoring winger depth.

On the left there's Panarin, streaky Kreider and (still struggling) Lafreniere.

If the few first games have shown anything, it is that this team lack some scoring and winger depth. Dryden freakin' Hunt is playing top 9 and PP, Blais is all of a sudden a top 6 forward and PP'er.

Because wing depth is a readily available thing in the NHL and will become even more available as the cap tightens over the next few seasons. It'll be available at the deadline, it'll be available in free agency, it's available right now. You don't need high scoring everywhere in the lineup - the "hole" so to speak is at 2RW, which is likely bridged by the fact that Blais and Goodrow can play up the lineup rather successfully. 

 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

According to VK he only wants to play in the top six, not even in the top nine.

Those top six spots are all taken, and we've already covered the fact that if he just accepted his AHL assignment, he would probably be slotting in place of Kakko right now.

 

Yes I know, I'm done arguing about VK. I was only commenting on the comment that "scoring on the wings" wasn't a problem anymore, and I disagree.

3 minutes ago, G1000 said:

Because wing depth is a readily available thing in the NHL and will become even more available as the cap tightens over the next few seasons. It'll be available at the deadline, it'll be available in free agency, it's available right now. You don't need high scoring everywhere in the lineup - the "hole" so to speak is at 2RW, which is likely bridged by the fact that Blais and Goodrow can play up the lineup rather successfully. 

 

So the Rangers don't lack scoring on the wings because its "available" around the league?

And if the solution is to put Blais and Goodrow in the top 6 it just proves my point lol.

[LindG1000]

5 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Yes I know, I'm done arguing about VK. I was only commenting on the comment that "scoring on the wings" wasn't a problem anymore, and I disagree.

So the Rangers don't lack scoring on the wings because its "available" around the league?

And if the solution is to put Blais and Goodrow in the top 6 it just proves my point lol.

I mean, Blais was on the top line when STL won their cup and Goodrow was on a third line that got usage as if it were a 2nd line for both of Tampa's, but I suppose we could split hairs about that one.

Kravtsov not panning out isn't a problem because it's readily available. It doesn't mean we don't address it, it just means that if Kravtsov isn't the answer, it's not a big issue. 

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Yes I know, I'm done arguing about VK. I was only commenting on the comment that "scoring on the wings" wasn't a problem anymore, and I disagree.

OK so at the point where we're healthy and our top 6 are:

20 93 24/13

10 16 24/21

 

With a potential 3rd line of

13/20 72 91/21

 

Where is the top line potential for VK? There's the just not a spot for him the top 6 where his skillset would compliment what's already there. Now really, that's not the way that I'd have done it, knowing what we know now. But VK already quite, so we'll never see something like:

20 93 74/24

10 16 24/74

13 72 91/21

whoever's left

 

Maybe don't call it depth but there's certainly no room for him in the role he envisions himself in.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

9 minutes ago, G1000 said:

I mean, Blais was on the top line when STL won their cup and Goodrow was on a third line that got usage as if it were a 2nd line for both of Tampa's, but I suppose we could split hairs about that one.

Kravtsov not panning out isn't a problem because it's readily available. It doesn't mean we don't address it, it just means that if Kravtsov isn't the answer, it's not a big issue. 

But they haven't done anything to fix it yet. They're still using Blais as a top 6 forward and they play McKegg, that's all I'm saying. Winger depth (and especially scoring wingers) IS a problem. Not a huge one, not an unfixable one, but still a problem.

And its not like they can just go and get a player. They either have to give up valuable assets and/or cap space (that they don't have) to fill this hole in the lineup. That's why a talented, scoring winger on an ELC would be perfect for this team atm.

[Sharpshooter]

They always seem to like Gauthier, yet he seems to be a healthy scratch while Greg McKegg (ugh!) gets ice time. I don't get it. The fact he was even brought back was a bad move.

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

OK so at the point where we're healthy and our top 6 are:

20 93 24/13

10 16 24/21

 

With a potential 3rd line of

13/20 72 91/21

 

Where is the top line potential for VK? There's the just not a spot for him the top 6 where his skillset would compliment what's already there. Now really, that's not the way that I'd have done it, knowing what we know now. But VK already quite, so we'll never see something like:

20 93 74/24

10 16 24/74

13 72 91/21

whoever's left

 

Maybe don't call it depth but there's certainly no room for him in the role he envisions himself in.

That's a pretty solid case, Pete!

My question now is, what do we need/get in return for him?  We're not really "building" anymore, but would a #2 be considered a decent haul at this point?
 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

OK so at the point where we're healthy and our top 6 are:

20 93 24/13

10 16 24/21

 

With a potential 3rd line of

13/20 72 91/21

 

Where is the top line potential for VK? There's the just not a spot for him the top 6 where his skillset would compliment what's already there. Now really, that's not the way that I'd have done it, knowing what we know now. But VK already quite, so we'll never see something like:

20 93 74/24

10 16 24/74

13 72 91/21

whoever's left

 

Maybe don't call it depth but there's certainly no room for him in the role he envisions himself in.

I think you think I'm saying "we need VK". I'm not.

I said I am done discussing VK, I was just replying to the statement you made that the organisation don't need scoring wingers anymore, a statement that I disagree with. Kakko has not shown that he can be a "scoring winger". Shown a few flashes and improved his skating and defensive play, but not as a scoring winger. Kreider is very streaky (as you like to point out a few times each season) and Laf is also still a question mark.

"When healthy" the top 9 looks solid yes. The problem is how many games a season does a team go without a injury on a top 9 player? Less than 50% of the games I would assume and when the solution then is to play Blais a top 6, Hunt as a top 9 and playing McKegg, there is something lacking there.

There's a reason the Tarasenko thread got revived and that there's a new Kane thread. This team still lacks a scoring winger.

[LindG1000]

6 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

But they haven't done anything to fix it yet. They're still using Blais as a top 6 forward and they play McKegg, that's all I'm saying. Winger depth (and especially scoring wingers) IS a problem. Not a huge one, not an unfixable one, but still a problem.

And its not like they can just go and get a player. They either have to give up valuable assets and/or cap space (that they don't have) to fill this hole in the lineup. That's why a talented, scoring winger on an ELC would be perfect for this team atm.

I'd guess step 1 in fixing it is "get everyone back to their right spots once healthy" - Strome's return opens the option for Goodrow to slide to wing, Kakko's return bumps folks down a line, etc. 

Step 2 is probably something like what we're seeing now, with an eye on adding a talent toward the deadline if needed. We're not exactly dominating play yet, but we're putting the points up on the standings while somewhat out of sync. You probably don't make a move just yet.

Give it time.

[Sharpshooter]

I know it's mostly because of top tier goaltending, but I'm just glad they're finding ways to win and get points despite not really looking very good. You look at the last game, the Toronto game and maybe even the Nashville game, last year or the year before, they probably don't win any of them.

[LindG1000]

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

I know it's mostly because of top tier goaltending, but I'm just glad they're finding ways to win and get points despite not really looking very good. You look at the last game, the Toronto game and maybe even the Nashville game, last year or the year before, they probably don't win any of them.

Look, these are the games we wished we won last season. Points is points; sometimes it's Shesty stealing them, sometimes it's a team effort, sometimes it's Fox doing Fox things - doesn't matter how it happens just yet. Matters that it happens and that the team is focusing on the process. 

[Sharpshooter]

Indeed, and it's really good to see them buckle down and still finding ways to win despite not playing their best (or really, anything close lol). That aspect is very encouraging. Their increased physical play and compete level is really showing, the rest will come.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I think you think I'm saying "we need VK". I'm not.

I said I am done discussing VK, I was just replying to the statement you made that the organisation don't need scoring wingers anymore, a statement that I disagree with. Kakko has not shown that he can be a "scoring winger". Shown a few flashes and improved his skating and defensive play, but not as a scoring winger. Kreider is very streaky (as you like to point out a few times each season) and Laf is also still a question mark.

"When healthy" the top 9 looks solid yes. The problem is how many games a season does a team go without a injury on a top 9 player? Less than 50% of the games I would assume and when the solution then is to play Blais a top 6, Hunt as a top 9 and playing McKegg, there is something lacking there.

There's a reason the Tarasenko thread got revived and that there's a new Kane thread. This team still lacks a scoring winger.

What I'm saying is that at the point VK got sent down, we didn't have a spot for him. Then he went home, and now we do. It's more about at the time the decision was made.

[josh]

20 93 24

10 16 29

13 72 91

21 17/47 74/75

 

[Capt]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I think you think I'm saying "we need VK". I'm not.

I said I am done discussing VK, I was just replying to the statement you made that the organisation don't need scoring wingers anymore, a statement that I disagree with. Kakko has not shown that he can be a "scoring winger". Shown a few flashes and improved his skating and defensive play, but not as a scoring winger. Kreider is very streaky (as you like to point out a few times each season) and Laf is also still a question mark.

"When healthy" the top 9 looks solid yes. The problem is how many games a season does a team go without a injury on a top 9 player? Less than 50% of the games I would assume and when the solution then is to play Blais a top 6, Hunt as a top 9 and playing McKegg, there is something lacking there.

There's a reason the Tarasenko thread got revived and that there's a new Kane thread. This team still lacks a scoring winger.

You think think the reason the Tarasenko thread got revived and Kane got a new thread is because of lack of scoring wingers.  This in the New York Rangers with a fanbase that wants every star player immediately as that possibly exists, evenly remotely.  Threads about stars being possible trade targets for the Rangers is as sure a thing as a Kardasian in a NBA locker room.  Just saying. 

[Kevin]

6 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

They always seem to like Gauthier, yet he seems to be a healthy scratch while Greg McKegg (ugh!) gets ice time. I don't get it. The fact he was even brought back was a bad move.

McKegg is a center and is defensively responsible.  The complete opposite of Gauthier.  I think NHL teams, when handling the bottom 6, tend to always lean to the defensively responsible guy versus the guy that may score here and there.  

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, G1000 said:

Kreider, Kakko, apparently Goodrow, somehow Gauthier, Blais, Cuylle, Berard. For starters. Then, the reality that finding a mid-six wing in free agency is literally a dime-a-dozen proposition. Jussi Jokinen made an entire career of it. We literally pulled Blackwell out of our asses last season. There's a million of them on the market every single offseason. Oh well, guess we'll go sign David Perron or Andre Burakovsky or Ondrej Palat or Nino Neiderreiter or Calle Jarnkrok or Michael Raffl or any other of the millions of serviceable mid six free-agency additions possible here. Further, wings of decent caliber routinely fall in the draft. It's a very fixable problem if Kravtsov doesn't pan out as he expected to for us - and it feels like that's the case - so it's probably worth not treating this as if the sky is falling. It sucks to see a talented prospect not pan out. It sucks real hard to see it happen twice. No denying that. But neither of these players were so key to this team's future (in no small part thanks to shrewd moves and a lot of lottery luck) that this is somehow the apocalypse. 

Which brings us to the greater point here: Kravtsov being a fickle child is not poor asset management - that's a contrived argument. It becomes poor asset management if we say "fuck it" and deal him for a 4th and Christian Jaros. Whatever is not "pretty much nothing" - it's a statement of non-concern because, as things stand and as things are like to stand, Kravtsov's role with this team and future iterations is, as I said, quite replaceable. Maybe he would have been better than average there, sure, but I can't say that concretely and neither can you. If we end up flipping him for Hayton or Kupari or someone in that ilk, I'm not really bothered by it.

We highly disagree about the depth this team has on wing. Kreider and Panarin are the only guarantees. Lafreniere looks like he's taking another step, but doesn't look like the generational talent he was touted as.. Blais has top 6 potential, but is likely more bottom 6. Kakko isn't a sure thing either. 

Signing free agents is an option, but it's not what we are talking about. Just going there with that opinion shows even more how lightly you and others are taking this. Indirectly comparing Kravstov to garbage like Blackwell? 

Im just repeating myself here, so I'll just give up. 

Hopefully the Rangers can get value in trade for a guy they penciled in as a top 6/9. 

[Long live the King]

So your argument is that we don't have top 6 wing depth because Laf and Kakko haven't proven anything.  And your answer to that is to bend the knee to Krav who has proven even less?

Edited October 25, 2021 by Long live the King

[LindG1000]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

We highly disagree about the depth this team has on wing. Kreider and Panarin are the only guarantees. Lafreniere looks like he's taking another step, but doesn't look like the generational talent he was touted as.. Blais has top 6 potential, but is likely more bottom 6. Kakko isn't a sure thing either. 

Signing free agents is an option, but it's not what we are talking about. Just going there with that opinion shows even more how lightly you and others are taking this. Indirectly comparing Kravstov to garbage like Blackwell? 

Im just repeating myself here, so I'll just give up. 

Hopefully the Rangers can get value in trade for a guy they penciled in as a top 6/9. 

My favorite part of this is that you came to the exact conclusion I've put up for two days now.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

56 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

So your argument is that we don't have top 6 wing depth because Laf and Kakko haven't proven anything.  And your answer to that is to bend the knee to Krav who has proven even less?

This is great, thank you!

[Keirik]

6 hours ago, Long live the King said:

So your argument is that we don't have top 6 wing depth because Laf and Kakko haven't proven anything.  And your answer to that is to bend the knee to Krav who has proven even less?

Well, if it means anything, Krav in his first 20 games proved himself to be more “nhl ready “ than Kakko ever did his first 20 games. At least eye test wise. Krav had a clear step while Kakko looked slow, indecisive, and no footwork whatsoever. 
 

We have gone back and forth many times. Kakko in his first month in the nhl went to a Finnish reporter and said he’s bad, but also said he wishes he had a chance for a top 6 role and doesn’t want to hear how he’s the new guy. We all took that in stride because we were all so damn excited to get a pick we were told was nhl ready and will perform right away.  
 Krav acted like a child but then again, took the clause that was previously given to him to return to Russia. MSG used to hype his performances. He spent him time in the A. He did what he could. His camp now was a shame. He was hurt. We were told that’s why he didn’t make it until Gallant talk3d and said not my call. He then changed to say he was beaten out but mediocre nhl players that will never amount to anything in the bigs. Great. Krav goes home. Here we are.

 

fun!

[Pete]

We've gone full heel now and begun to try and raise Kravtsov up by tearing Kakko down.

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, G1000 said:

My favorite part of this is that you came to the exact conclusion I've put up for two days now.

Yeah, no.

[The Dude]

9 hours ago, Long live the King said:

So your argument is that we don't have top 6 wing depth because Laf and Kakko haven't proven anything.  And your answer to that is to bend the knee to Krav who has proven even less?

No. See the argument is to have more inexpensive and talented options.  You know. ... the whole reason why they dealt Buchnevich...